Sega Confirms Death of Dreamcast 268
Anonymous Coward writes "Sega of America has confirmed a $99 price drop and liquidation of all Dreamcast hardware. Peter Moore went on to say they will develop Virtua Figher 4 for the PS2, along with porting over some of Sega's older titles. He also listed all the new games that will be coming out in the next nine months. " The market is getting thinner
now. We're down to PS/2, and vaporous offerings from Microsoft and
Nintendo.
Cheaper than $99? (Score:1)
Why?
Well, they have a nifty price guarantee that if you find the same product for less at another store, or even their own store, you get refunded 110% of the difference. You get the DC now, and assuming that Circuit City is on top of the price drop, you get a cool $55 refund sometime in the next couple weeks.
Anyone know of another place that could better this deal?
Re:The way of things to come (Score:1)
On the TV-out console market yes, but the Gameboy Color is probably the most profitable machine (in terms both of direct sales and game sales) out there. The Pokemon craze has shown only mild signs of fading, and the Gameboy games are still the hottest sellers. The Gameboy Advance was delayed simply because there was no reason not to, they simply had no meaningful competition. So don't expect the company to go away any time soon, although they may not put up much of a fight in the large console market.
You don't explain why you think Sony will drop the ball, though.
Re:This is not surprising at all. (Score:1)
Anyway, if the screwups were their downfall, I guess Sony is fucked because their PS2 launch was far worse than the Dreamcast launch, especially in parts of Europe and Japan where there were many hardware glitches that require unit replacements (far more costly than CD replacements, ala the Dreamcast batch of screwy CDs at launch). Here in the USA its months after launch and you still can't find a PS2 for sale in most retail outlets -- they have plenty of games for sale, of course, since there's not many PS2 owners to buy them.
Could this be... (Score:1)
Re:The way of things to come (Score:1)
Right now, Sony is essentially the Microsoft of the console business. With so many installed users (on the PlayStation 1) they can pretty much dictate the future of the industry -- or at least this is how they have been acting as of late.
I'm personally quite glad that they pulled a boner on the PS2 launch, and I hope Microsoft (and Nintendo) use the screwup to their advantage to inject some more competition into the console arena.
Re:CE was the cause of death (Score:1)
As others have mentioned, very few titles use Windows CE on the Dreamcast -- its optional. And those that do do not crash (believe me, I've played a good amount of Sega Rally 2, and never once did it crash (Blue Screen or otherwise)
And in terms of the killer-app for game consoles being a system that uses Linux? I am a Linux user and believe some of the Open Source rhetoric (but not all of it), but this just doesn't follow. The technology support for games even on current Linux systems is one of its main drawbacks -- despite the best efforts of the xfree/DRI people and Loki (SDL, etc), Linux as a gaming platform is still lagging several years behind Windows or even MacOS.
X-Box is not vaporware! (Score:2)
Does the URL say sega.com? Didn't think so. (Score:2)
I'm sorry, but people should get their facts right (Score:2)
First off, for those who post about the DC's failure due to WinCE, please get a clue. For starters, the DC was not a windows box. It was a custom Motorola processor (like every other Sega system) with its graphics subsystem being the NEC Power-VR chipset--neither of which have much relation to PC hardware whatsoever. It is true that the DC *ran* WinCE, however it was only a secondary operating system *available*. It only ran when the game was designed to use it--which many did not. Moreover, there was also a standard Sega programming enviroment available for development (C++-based) as well as the DC version of machine code. By no means was the DC a Windows-based machine. The functionality was only there to offer developers a more familar way to create games.
On top of all this anti-MS fever creating misrepresentation, it seems odd that so many people, including Taco himself are calling the Xbox vapor-ware. Perhaps this was the care 2 months ago, but the Xbox has officially come out of the woodwork as a real offering by this year. The official press releases have been made, the final box (basically) and controller(s) were shown at the CES show a few weeks ago, and all real gaming mags/sites have started true coverage. There is a current listing of over 20 big-name release games--two of which were on display at the CES--as well as a list of almost every name publisher signed up to develop for the Xbox. At any rate, it is hardly vaperous--in fact, it's probably less so that the pathetic showing of the PS2 on the market right now
If Slashdot is gonna go hog-wild on video game stories, they should at least try to read a gaming site (videogames.com or dailyradar.com are good ones) or pick up a copy of EGM every once and a while.
-Jayde
What about the Republic game console? (Score:4)
Cause of death: Controller. (Score:1)
Look:
Atari 2600- used a really simple joystick. Still works even today- one button, one directional control. Sold like hotcakes.
Sega MS- better than the Nintendo, but....
Nintendo- had a "select" button on the control pad, and better marketing. Master System dies.
The Genesis had a robust, easy to use control pad, as did the Super Nintendo. [and the TG16]. 3DO couldn't decide which one it wanted to rip off and went for both, cross breeding incompatible designs... and failing.
The Atari Jaguar has the worst controller in the known universe- down it went.
The Playstation added a pair of shoulder buttons to the classic SNES design and handles, the biggest innovation since ever- guranteed success.
The N64 has a wackass control pad that never makes full use of itself, and is needlessly fragile. All hail analogue and everything, but the only things keeping this platform up are Goldeneye and the fact that Nintendo is practicly guranteed "kid safe".
The CDi had a stupid control pad [looks like a TV remote], the Atari 5200 had a goofy control interface... and the Dreamcast. Most of the bitching I've heard about the DC isn't about games or price or availability... it's about that silly ass control pad.
Stupid motto (Score:1)
Nope, sorry! (Score:1)
icanneverbereached@sogoaway.com aint my address.
Re:Dreamcast/N64 (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
You're awfully jaded. (Score:1)
Not in my case. (Score:1)
Re:Sigh.... (Score:1)
Loosen up, hit the mall, watch some pr0n, enjoy our corrupt Capitalistic western society. Less stressful that way.
Oh, and stop calling me trying to sell me "Proletariat Trolls Monthly" subscriptions.
--Just Another Pimp A$$ Perl Hacker
Re:EA and Sega (Score:1)
2) I own a Dreamcast and PS2 and NFL 2K1 is a much better game - further I would say the graphics are pretty close. Given the PS2 has 10 times the horsepower, I expected more.
3) 989 sports is owned by Sony. Gameday does not touch either frachinse. - Just my opinion.
Good points!
So was the public cheated? Nope. (Score:3)
Referring to this as the "Death of the Dreamcast" is also needless sensationalism. While it may be the death knell, it's not dead yet; Sega is simply ceasing to manufacture consoles. Hold on for a second... that isn't quite as bad as it sounds. Sega's support of the Dreamcast via software will continue via the (reported) 100 games still in the development pipeline, and remains in negotiation with other manufacturers to license the Dreamcast hardware; so DC-compatible DVD-players and the like could soon make an appearance (and there's still that X-Box rumor).
This has happened in the past; in the US, manufacture of Genesis systems from late '95 and on was done by Majesco sales, JVC offered the X'Eye, an integrated Genesis/SegaCD unit, and in Japan Hitachi produced Video CD player capable of playing Saturn games.
Yeah, it's not gonna live on forever; no console does. No, it's probably not going to outlast the PS2; this shouldn't really suprise anyone. Will Sega continue to support the console with software as long as it is reasonably profitable? Yes. Will any more consoles capable of running DC software be produced? Most likely. So we have both consoles and software, for a while at least; throwing the Dreamcast on the cart now is a bit premature.
Re:The way of things to come (Score:1)
On the Nintendo side, however, things are more interesting. The Game Boy Advance is certainly *not* just a rumor - in fact, IIRC, it's being released March 1. Certainly, I know a lot of developers are working on GBA titles. GBA sounds like great fun to develop for *and* to play on, and where you mention convergence between X-Box and PC, perhaps we'll see convergence between GBA and PalmPilot? ;)
After that, there's the GameCube. Now, remember that the N64 was a late entry. The GameCube is too. But despite late entry the N64 still sold a respectable number of games. Nintendo deal with this differently than Sony - Sony throw as many games at players as possible, in the belief that some of them will be popular. [If you throw enough shit, some will stick.] Nintendo, on the other hand, has very few games, but the average quality is far higher. They've done OK with this model on N64, so it remains to be seen how they do on GameCube.
This ain't over. Not by a long stretch. Sega has been the outsider since 1995, and it's just taken a long time to die. But MS, Sony and Nintendo still have some interesting fights ahead.
A couple of minor factual errors ... (Score:5)
Actually, there is little truth to this statement. Nintendo is still selling well in IT's market, which is different from the market for PS2 and DC. Nintendo has never killed a machine before the natural end of it's product cycle, and usually supports it well into it's twilight years. (I'm not counting Virtual Boy ... which was a collosal failure.)
When X-Box launches, Gameboy Advance (NOT a rumor, I might add, it's well past confirmed) should launch (June-ish), and Gamecube either at Christmas, or Q1 2002.
Now then, Microsoft has NEVER made a date for a major release, and there's little reason to suspect that X-Box will break the trend. Microsoft themselves have even suggested that Christmas might be more realistic, meaning GBA will beat it to market, and Gamecube should launch at approximately the same time.
Unfortunately, what probably will happen is that Sony will drop the ball this year. Microsoft will release the X-box to a small audience and start out slow. The X-box and PS2 will be in competition for about a year, maybe 18 months, with Microsoft gaining ground as Sony loses ground.
This is mostly correct. Sony's already pissing off third parties by not having enough installed base, and they are eager to see X-Box succeed. The rest of the paragraph is a bit wrong though. X-Box will not be priced lower ... I see it having price parity with PS2. As for PC integration ... that's a pipe dream. MS KNOWS that X-Box needs to be a console, not a PC, and is pushing down that road. Ask any developer ... X-Box is about games, and games only.
Nintendo and Microsoft will likely end up the major players unless Sony pulls it's head out of it's ass, but just like the last "war," Nintendo will probably end up grabbing the younger end of the market, and Microsoft will embrace the older generation.
And in case anyone wonders about my perceptions, I worked in the game industry for a while, and have studied it thoroughly. There is always a cycle to these things, and sometimes the players make them happen while denying that they will fall into the trap.
Re:Dreamcast/N64 (Score:1)
My Dreamcast games include Sonic Adventure, Looney Tunes Racing, MLB2K1, and Tomb Raider.
I can't vouch for the "quality" of FPS games because they don't interest me. But for simple action games that require puzzle-solving skills, I like the games on both N64 and Dreamcast.
Re:Wow! New News! (Score:1)
'Cuz until Slasdot reports it, it ain't history'
Re:A little sorry to see it go (Score:1)
Re:A console monopoly is good news. (Score:1)
Indrema, damnit! (Score:3)
We're not going to get anywhere as long as people hold that attitude. Don't forget the Indrema! Specs of the X-Box, runs on Linux.
------
That was fast (Score:1)
DC ISO's (Score:1)
Re:Blame Marketing? (Score:2)
Sometimes, I think about how much money and time goes into advertising that is simply meant to cancel out the effects of a rival's advertising; I think about how much the cost of goods is inflated by these costs, and I get annoyed.
What about Ethernet for Dreamcast? (Score:2)
Can't get more official than this (Score:3)
Re:So was the public cheated? (Score:3)
Even when it was brand new, the Dreamcast sold for less than $300. Its not like the cost of a car or such.
There's more than enough games available for it to make it worth the $300 purchase: Space Channel 5, Virtua Tennis, Rayman 2, MDK 2, Sonic Adventure 1 (and 2), Shenmue (though I didn't care for it much myself, plenty of other people seem to like it), NFL2K1, NBA2K1, Soul Reaver, Soul Calibur, Dead or Alive 2, Tony Hawk Pro Skater 2, etc, etc, etc (there are many many more good games).
The simple fact is, consoles die. They are built to become obsolete eventually. This is not Dreamcast specific. Even if Sega kept making hardware, they'd most likely be pimping a 'Dreamcast 2' next year, and you'd still have the problem of the original Dreamcast support being dropped.
Corporate Lying (Score:2)
This kind of stuff (blatant lying with no consequences) happens all the time in business and politics. When are we going to demand people start telling the truth?
Re:PS/2? No way, it's PSX2! (Score:2)
Perhaps your problem is with the proprietary nature of the PS/2. PS/2 keyboards, anyone?
Re:This is not surprising at all. (Score:2)
2) Controllers are readily available for the PS2. Unfortunately, that's a slightly less important device than the console itself. I've personally had no problems getting all the accessories I wanted.
3) Most consoles have minor problems, especially when first produced. Some PS1's had to be turned over [argonet.co.uk] to operate correctly, as well as having some overheating problems [google.com] (I don't know about the PS2, I'm sure others know more about its minor quirks). The first batch of Dreamcast games had a few problems, but the problems were quickly solved.
--
Re:Does the URL say sega.com? (This one does!) (Score:2)
Nowhere in Sega's actual announcement does it say that they are "liquidating" the Dreamcast. Instead it says they will continue to sell the console until the end of this year at the new price of $100.
Re:You're awfully jaded. (Score:3)
I don't even like Consoles in general; I just call it as I see it. Honestly, I've never liked consoles - I think PC games are always much much more entertaining; but that's a whole other thing, and besides I wouldn't argue it, I just accept I'm different from most people.
The problem was not that 'only a handful' of games were flawed, the problem was that this handful were the first games released. This meant people who dropped $300 on the console, or were thinking of spending $300 when the hype was started, and christmas was occuring - these people didn't get to play 2 player games, or buy new games for a long time after the thing was released.
What's more is, Sega has always had a very bad reputation as far as the continuity of their products go. I don't remember anymore, (but don't think I didn't know my stuff last christmas) - but their last console did horribly, and because of that, they stopped producing games for it soon after everyone bought it. Just like what's happening here.
On the other hand, the PS had announced at the same time they were coming out with a NEW console that would be just as much or more hype, *and* be backwards compatible. You tell me what to tell Mrs. Doe with 4 kids and no income to buy so she doesn't declare bankruptcy again in 1 year trying to keep her kids happy.
On top of all this, our own in-store system had broken twice. I have absolutely no favouritism at all towards any company, in fact - I usually support the little guy; but when that happens to a new system by a company with little reputation (comparitively), I am not going to play sides because of some marketing hype they couldn't even provide for!
(our console(s) btw was never knocked around and was very well cooled and powered better than most people power their home stuff, and usually ran for less time than it would in a home!)
I'm really not knocking Sega, I know they have good intentions. But let me summarize:
1) The average person doesn't care if their system gets repaired within 2-3 weeks. If it breaks once, its a major pain in the ass compared to another system that probably wouldn't. Sega broke twice on us in a month. (That's 3 consoles we went through!). The second was from a completely different batch.
2) The system was much more expensive than the PS, and with all the hype about the PS2 - and the fact it was backwards compatible, why buy a dreamcast at that time when you knew if it failed, you would be screwed (I was right afterall! it did fail, and now you're all screwed for the future).
3) We couldn't even sell parents the stuff their kids needed to enjoy the thing (ie: 2 player compatibility!). "When are you getting the memory? the controllers? The other 50 games? (We had like 8 games at the start)" - "Sega tells us very soon"... "Sega tells us very soon"... "Sega said it would be soon about a month ago"... "I dunno it's been 3 months since Sega last told us it would be soon". Oh look they're here, the hypes dead.
Dude, I gave Sega its fair chance - and I was right, it died. You gamers are just sore losers because you want something better and Sega did not provide.
Re:You're awfully jaded. (Score:2)
For me, my main reason for getting the DC was to take it to friends' houses and play party games. 4 players is more than double the fun, and since the DC ships with 4 ports (rather than an add-on that fewer people will purchase), there's more party games for it.
As for the price, DC is less the the PS2 and the games look just as good (so far).
--
Re:The way of things to come (Score:2)
The Gamecube on the other hand is very easy to develop for and, according to more than 1 development group, very easily pumps out more polygones per second than you can do on the PS2, without doing an tweaking or pushing of the hardware.
Upon looking at the XBox specs it appears to be something that can blow the Gamecube and the PS2 away but what most people do not realize are some of it's bottlenecks that brings is speed and power down to the Gamecube level, and sometimes below. These bottlenecks mostly reside around the way it works with memory. What is interesting is that Nintendo has always been careful with it's numbers and always predicts numbers low. All the other consoles predict numbers that are super high but don't take into account that polygons need textures and many other things that can bring the number down drasticly. The Gamecube is comparable to the XBox right now, in specs, without the hardware being pushed. Nintendo's polygon count is with full texturing with 8 filters on the texture (all in hardare which is a first) and the sound area is how many voices can be done in 3D. Take a voice out of 3D and your number is much higher and learn the details of the hardware and you can push the Gamecube farther than the XBox.
Another fact is that the XBox will be running a modified version of Windows 2000. Not a special OS for the console, but a modified Windows OS. It's display will use DirectX so development for the XBox can be quick, but pushing the hardware will be difficult.
In short, the PS2 can't even stack up against the XBox nor the Gamecube, no matter which way you cut it for what things are allowed. What will kill another company will be bad decision making. Nintendo did it awhile back when they came out with the Virtual Boy, which was a flop, and resulted in them being one of the console developers to come out last in the hardware line.
Re:The way of things to come (Score:3)
If this [ign.com] is slowly dying, then what do you consider a success?
Price drop?!? (Score:4)
No, it's a $50 price drop TO $99.
Had me looking all over the web for a $50 Dreamcast, too. :-p
Re:Victim of bad marketing (Score:2)
From playing with a PSX2 at a friend's, and owning a Dreamcast I can say the PSX2 does have better graphics. One of the psudo-wargames the PSX2 has (real time) rendered people as detailed as the Dreamcast fighting games, but rather then at most 4 at ones (like DOA2) it had twenty, thirty, 100 or so of them swarming around.
As far as gameplay goes, nothing grabbed me as a must own game like, say, Soul Calibur was for me on the Dreamcast (they have DOA2 Hardcore, which is a bit better then DOA2 on the DC, but not a lot).
I assume the game play will get better: if nothing else Sega will make good PSX2 games :-)
I assume the graphics will get better as well as the thing gets pushed.
Good news for the PS2, for the moment... (Score:4)
Virtua Fighter 4 (Fall)
Space Channel 5 (Later?)
And After April:
Crazy Taxi
18 Wheel American Pro Trucker
Zombie Revenge
Wow! So, around the time of the XBox launch, I'll be able to play Crazy Taxi and Virtua Fighter 4, as well at GT3 and ZOE on the PS2?
The only question is how soon those games might be ported to the XBox (I assume "platform agnostic" means they'll develop almost any game for any system). But if they are on the PS2 first, during the XBox launch, it could really increase support for the PS2.
Dreamcast is dead because . . . (Score:2)
Sure, the DC had a year head start, but people still knew that the PS2 was coming, and that it would forever change the landscape of video games. We all drooled at screenshots of Madden 2001 and other amazing looking games while Sega was actually churning out amazing game after amazing game.
Why buy a Sega, though? When playstation 2 comes out, DC will be outdated.
Well, PS2 came out, and the DC has a better software library and still has some great games in development, but it's too late. Sega has already been crushed by Sony's hype monster. Retailers and developers are scared of DC because it's a sinking ship. Why try to rescue it when you can just develop and sell games for PS2 and prepare for the GameCube and XBox?
I'm just hoping that MSFT incorperates the DC chipset into the XBox. I heard rumors that it's gonna happen. I've heard we're gonna find out in late march.
Re:MP3 player? Set-top box? (Score:2)
Dreamcast programming crap-- http://mc.pp.se/dc/
Links and lots of cool stuff like mp3 player and emulators and such (and Quake 1!)-- http://www.dcemulation.com/
NetBsd has a couple of pages too, looks cool, haven't tried it yet. And I just got one of these bastards for christmas.
Anyone else notice how sega is a bunch of cocks when it comes to thier customers. Remember how they just cut the Genesis, and had half assed support for the 32x and SegaCD after like 6 months. And they had they jump on the playstation with the saturn. And the ps2 with the dreamcast. Bastard cocks. Oh well.
Thank you, Sega (Score:3)
Dreamcast built up a more impressive library in a year and a half than the N64 did in five years. Sega getting out of hardware is a good thing. Now their top-notch software development teams will be able to play to a much larger audience, and they won't be tied to the money-losing console half of the business.
It took them awhile, but Sega finally got it right. Let other companies eat the loss, you just sit back and rake in the profits.
I don't look at the Dreamcast as a failure. In my eyes, it's the most successful console to be released in a long time. The first console with a VGA adaptor, the first console to come with a modem, the first console with Ethernet connectivity. And the games were actually fun.
In a market that's driven primarily by hype, thank you, Sega, for daring to be different.
And long live the Dreamcast.
Re:Dreamcast/N64 (Score:2)
The Dreamcast has a far wider selection of games. Don't get me wrong, the N64 has some great games, but they tend to fall into 4 genres: 3D platform titles (Mario64, Banjo-Kazooie), Kart Racers (Mario Kart, Diddy Kong Racing), action-RPGs (the two Zelda games, Gauntlet Legends (though its mostly action)) and FPSes (Goldeneye, Perfect Dark..which many people seem to love, but being a PC FPS player, I can't seem to get into these). .
The N64 doesn't have a very extensive library of games. And of the games that are available, 99% of the ones that are worth playing are either from Nintendo themselves or Rare, which contributes to the lack of game diversity.
Dreamcast, on the other hand, has FPSes (Quake3, including mouse/keyboard support), platform games (Rayman 2, Sonic Adventures), rhythm dancing games (Space Channel 5, Dance Dance Revolution), action-RPGs (Soul Reaver), traditional console-RPGs (Grandia 2, Skies of Arcadia), plenty of fighting games (Soul Calibur, Dead or Alive, VF3), and hard-to-categorize games like Shenmue.
The short version of my long-winded post is this:
Get an N64 if you love Nintendo (or Rare's)games. The selection is not large, but the games available are almost all of the highest quality.
Get a Dreamcast if you want diversity.
Get both if you can afford it.
Re:The way of things to come (Score:2)
The GameBoy is the most successful selling console in history. There are nearly 100 MILLION gameboy consoles out there. Nintendo is one of the top half dozen most successful and profitable companies in Japan (2 years ago they were THE most successful.) Who knows about the gamecube, but the nintedo owned franchises (mario, zelda, pokemon) are undeniable juggernauts and you simply can't discount this when talking about the gamecube's potential success. I am POSITIVE that I'll be buying a gamecube to get the next mario and zelda games.. are you telling me you won't be? Also, don't underestimate the potential connection and cross-marketing between the gamecube and GBA.
Nintedo isn't going ANYWHERE. The only true "unknown" commodity in the market is the XBox. Sure they have a chance, a good one because of their development environment, but I think it's hard to make a case that either of the other two big players are going to positively fail - considering Nintendo's brands, and Sony's momentum.
paulb
Just too bad.... (Score:2)
I mean, the Dreamcast had some truly wonderful games on it: Soul Calibur, NFL2K/NFK2K1, Jet Grind Radio, Samba di Amigo, Shenmue, Skies of Arcadia, Grandia II, Tony Hawk Pro Skater, the underrated Power Stone, Dead or Alive 2, and several others. I'm hoping that the games I've mentioned will be revived on other gaming platforms in the next few years.
The thing that really killed Sega was the fact they were not able to overcome the marketing power of Sony. The very name "Sony" has such as strong level of recognition that even with the current PlayStation 2 shortages they still can out-market Sega very easily.
Right now, it appears that only Microsoft and Nintendo have a chance to take on Sony, Microsoft from the high end with Xbox and Nintendo from the low end with GameCube and Game Boy Advance. I believe that Game Boy Advance will be the thing that keeps Nintendo alive in the next few years.
Bias in journalism... (Score:2)
Just a thought. Keep the bias open and obvious, please. It's what makes /. so useful to me.
Re:Nintendo? Vaporous? I think not... (Score:2)
Taco always makes snarky comments about systems other than his beloved PS2, in the hopes of encouraging people to buy that already dated piece of hardware rather than wait for Xbox or Gamecube, both of which will be superior systems.
For example, I can remember him making snide, stupid editorial comments about Dreamcast back when (by his logic) the Playstation2 was vaporous. Even now, there aren't any games available for the PS2 that are significantly better than those available for the PSOne (which s a much better buy right now, especialy considering if you change your mind later you can play the software on PS2), and nothing on the horizon for it looks all that good.
The smart thing to do now if you don't own a PS2 is wait and see if the other systems will be better. once all three are out, then you can make a decision. Sony itself is already talking about the PS3, software sales in Japan have been slow and i wouldn't be surprised if Sony abandoned the PS2 fairly soon after Gamecube and Xbox if the installed user base isn't enough to worry about alienating.
As to the field thinning, that strikes me a questionable. back when it was Sony vs. Nintendo and Sega, both Nintendo and Sega had significant weaknesses. Sega had just come off of the SegaCD, 32X debacle which shook consumer confidence, and the Saturn was not designed for those polygonal games that appealed to the casual gamer. Nintendo, on the other hand, decided to stick with cartridges, which proved to be a mistake in the long run. However, Nintendo was better able to sell its characters and was able to maintain a significant (if diminished) audience for its console.
The new playing field seems to be much more even. Microsoft is serious about entering the gaming field, and have poured quite a lot of resources into their console. They are also excellent at marketing, and have as good a reputation with the average consumer as Sony (perhaps slightly better). Nintendo, on the other hand, has simply created a better box than Sony, and they have their strong, first party titles to back it up.
Yeah, it's over for Sega as a hardware maker (sad as that is), but I think that the PS2 is hardly in good shape. If Sony continues to rely as heavily on third party software as it has in the past, all it would take would be for Square (et al) to decide another platform was more attractive and jump ship.
Me, I'm just wondering how soon after Xbox and Gamecube launch Sony will be announcing Playstation 3. i mean, an add on modem, an add on harddrive? Sony is starting to sound like Nintendo with their 64DD or Sega with its CD and 32X, not a good sign for Sony fanboys.
Re:The way of things to come (Score:2)
A Sony/Sega/Atari/TurboGrafix/ColecoVision/Nintendo system would be pretty sweet. It could be called Soegaturbcondo... or something like that.
-gerbik
Wow! New News! (Score:3)
But until I saw it on Slashdot, I wasn't sure it was true. 'Cuz until Slashdot reports it, it ain't news.
Re:This is not surprising at all. (Score:2)
Whereas my experience from my wife owning one (and writing reviews for the games) is that the thing works fantastically, the games are pretty good overall (and Shenmue is awesome), and we have experienced no appreciable problems whatsoever.
The big problem is simply that Sega did not spend the money on marketing to get people excited about the Dreamcast. Oh, and having seen the graphics on the PS2 I dont know what the hype is about - the Dreamcast games are the equal or better of any PS2 game I have seen so far.
You couldn't give me a PS2.
Re:Nintendo? Vaporous? I think not... (Score:2)
Ok, when I make comments, they've occaisionally been way off base, or nasty flames, or whatever. But then, I'm not posting my comments in the main news stories, and when I have been really insulting or arrogant, I get modded down.
So, yeah, all journalists are biased, but if they start to be *smug* about there biases, I would expect them to lose readers.
Honestly, if I were a Taco fan (or a friend of his) I would be trying to give him the advice, "Hey! Tone it down, unless you want to push people away from this site through your own arrogance."
Nobody, wants to read an article on Slashdot and be insulted part way through it. Of course, I'm still here, reading the site... probably only because I can get a somewhat balance view from the comments rather than from whatever Cloud-Cuckoo Land that some of the story posters seem to live in.
PalmOS (Score:2)
More information Here [yahoo.com]
Wait. (Score:2)
yeah, it's disheartening that Sega ended up having to cave in to the power of marketing and develop for that hunk of junk, but with two good systems on the way that doesn't mean there is a reason to buy one.
Where's the competition? (Score:3)
The console makes relatively little money for the manufacturer (and none for the people that produce games for it) compared to what they rake in on the games they sell for it. As far as I know, this is true for every manufacturer who has ever produced a console, or a game for said console. (I wouldn't mind seeing counter-examples, if anyone has any.)
Pick a game theme on one of those consoles, and consider how many different versions of it there are. Two or three of each type of sports game (football, basketball, baseball), four or five different racing games (some brand name like Nascar, others with different exotic twists), and some genres occur almost spontaneously, and breed like rabbits -- for a while on the PSX you couldn't spit without hitting some variant of a skateboarding game.
Even games which have no other manufacturers' prior art to sell their offbeat concepts, still have to compete with the quality of the staid classic games for the consumer's limited cash, and that means they have to innovate like nobody's business. (Mmmmmm... Incredible Crisis [ign.com])
On any given single console, there is still a great deal of competition: Each and every development company is looking to take that console that someone's produced, and squeeze every bit of fun, action, adrenaline, and pulse-pumping excitement onto a CD or cartridge using the SDK the developer has shipped them.
And they have to do this knowing that everyone else has received pretty much the same kit -- the ultimate in leveled playing fields. The only thing they can do is compete.
The system can be nothing but bells and whistles, or it can be plain. Developers will still try to wring the technotes for every pixel of power they can get. This means innovation, ladies and gentlemen, even if there's only one platform worth noting on the market.
In some ways, this competition between software producers is more important than the competition between hardware manufacturers. One of the biggest selling points of any hardware is the software that runs on it. It may also be worthwhile noting some aspects of the strategies of the hardware manufacturers:
Sony [playstation.com], when developing the PS2, tried to innovate their asses off. They did things no sane person would want to do to graphic hardware in order to get the maximum 'polygon-pushing power'. Consequently, as has been mentioned many times around here, the thing is something of a beast to program, but theoretically, when someone hits the mark and programs it right, watch out. This will end up, they hope, producing truly eye-popping games which will better sell their system.
Microsoft [xbox.com] wanted to give X-Box developer and SDK primarily only to those developers who wanted to play by Microsoft's rules (read: bend over and smile like a shark. R.I.P. Bungie) -- get the creme de la creme of producers producing the biggest, brightest, most innovative games on your system, and the consumers will flock (n. a collective of sheep) to it, even if it's a dog turd with joystick ports.
And Nintendo [nintendo.com] is going with brand recognition and their successful merchandising lines (like the Pokemon phenomenon which, although the bottom is dropping out of the trading card market, still seems strong) to sell their next-gen console. Sure, it's a merchandising angle rather than a software angle, but guess what? The software that ties into that giant marketing machine will only run on their system. They're also promising a very easy to program system, to attract those developers that get frustrated with Sony's beast or Microsoft's attitude.
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PS/2? (Score:2)
Re:This is Sega just being Sega (Score:2)
Sega also promised a convertor to play Master System games on the genesis, but I never saw one in a store in my area.
LK
Don't forget the Linux-based vaporware (Score:3)
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Damn you, Sony (Score:2)
Re:Dreamcast NOT Dead (Score:2)
Kiss DC goodbye unless someone [connectix.com] comes out with a virtual machine for existing hardware.
Kevin Fox
requiem (Score:2)
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Re:989 Anyone? (Score:2)
Victim of bad marketing (Score:2)
At least now I may be able to get some games at a respectable discount.
So was the public cheated? (Score:4)
A company announces a product line, gets thousands if not millions of people to shell out the cash for it, then abandons the product. It happens all the time. The question is, did Sega imply by selling the DC that they were going to produce an extensive line of games for it? When you bought the DC, were you buying a cool piece of equipment *or* were you buying a player for cool games?
This shouldn't shock anyone... (Score:3)
The competition is between Sony and Microsoft, Nintendo is a different league. Sony is a consumer electronics company making a gaming platform. Microsoft is a software monopoly looking to extract full rents with hardware. Neither is a game company (MS does have a games division, but it isn't the corporate focus).
This helps them with third party games. The companies don't fear the manufacturer screwing them to help their games. Their licensing fees don't price their games out of the market, everyone is a licensee. In fact, in this point, Sony has a big edge (MS business history AND their game division). However, MS has a big edge, DirectX. If you are making a PC game, the X-Box port will be trivial, this keeps Microsoft in it. I expect both consoles to do well, but I can't tell who has the edge. MS can launch with games, but Sony has loyal players, I can't tell.
Nintendo is NOT a consumer electronics/operating systems play, it is a game company. They make boxes to push their games. They focus on the Japanese market where they dominate. XBox will be states-side, with American companies churning out the games, they are too Amercian-centric to make it in Japan (my opinion).
Nintendo sells to the states as an afterthought. The original gameboy is ancient, but it beat the newer systems that followed it (including color systems, 32-bit systems, etc). Why? It has Nintendo's games.
Nintendo has some GREAT series. The Zelda and Mario series dominate. Even without a single third-party game, we all by the Nintendo consoles to play the Mario Games, the Zelda games, and Mario Kart, etc. This means that they get the consoles into a LOT of homes. Third party support may or may not come, but I'd be shocked of none hitting. I mean, Nintendo can put boxes in people's houses.
They aren't about hype. They aim for the kids market. Their kid focus lets parents feel safe buying the system, and the systems are fun for kids. Nintendo knows this market, and they own this market.
Re:CE was the cause of death (Score:2)
Please do not feed the troll.
Re:A console monopoly is good news. (Score:3)
Some people say that Sony is already shifting into this mentality with the rather incremental upgrade that the PS2 is instead of the groundbreaking new machine. Nintendo fell victim to this with the SNES (although they got away with it for the longest time) and now it's killing them.
In summary: Console Monopolies aren't good, and they don't last anyway.
Down that path lies madness. On the other hand, the road to hell is paved with melting snowballs.
PCs are cheaper than consoles anyway (Score:2)
The console, afew months past release, is still selling for around seven hundred dollars. Over time it will stick to bering around four or three hundred dollars. A clone PC with a decent 3D card is around $1100.
Games are between eighty and a hundred each and rarely get turned into bargain bin material. PC games are between thirty or forty [for something nine months old] and seventy dollars. We also have a large swap meet culture which makes purchase of OEM games fairly easy, for around $20 a pop. Yes, new games require newer PCs to get the most out of. Nothing says you have to play new games - many PC users I know still play half like and counterstrike years after their release. Worldwide statistics about games played online make this still the case. Furthermore, old PC game asre cheap.
The other factor is that modern consoles seem rather...er...crap in comparision to modern PCS. The original playstation released with games like Wipeout a couple of months down the track which made OC users jaw drop. The PS2 released with games like SSX [or something like that] snowboarding which made PC users laugh at the poorly accelerated graphics. Old PC games like Half Life still look better than anything I've seen on the PS2.
Re:Just cuz its LINUX? (Score:2)
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Get your cheap linux boxes here! (Score:2)
Oh, and it runs games or something too. So I have heard.
Nintendo? Vaporous? I think not... (Score:3)
You know, it's not as if the tech demos, the in game footage (Rogue Squadron 2?), and the fully functional hardware sitting in the hands of developers actually *means* anything... Noooooo...
XBox might be considered vaporous. Maybe. I've heard lots of reports of games being developed, but I haven't seen any running games on it yet, while I have for the GameCube. See, vaporware usually implies that nothing exists outside of closed doors. In this case, info is out in the open, demos have been run, the bare metal is being used already. Granted, it hasn't shipped, but that's a totally different story, and one that I'd rather not deal with at the moment.
Seriously, though... you've really got to stop adding your own personal bias so forcefully to your content. Take a hint from real journalists. If you're partial, be subtle about it.
Raptor
Comment removed (Score:4)
Re:Nintendo is doing FINE. (Score:2)
Besides the fact that the Pokémon franchise continues to be pretty strong, Nintendo are taking steps to start catering to an older audience. Look at the upcoming GameCube and Game Boy Advance--both gaming platforms are ready to play more sophisticated games we normally associate with PlayStation or Dreamcast. The neat thing about Game Boy Advance is the fact you can use your current Game Boy cartridges with no problems, and in fact the Game Boy Advance unit can even function as a GameCube controller!
It will be very interesting to see how Sega implements the next version of the NFL2Kx series of football games on GameCube; it will definitely have the great gameplay of NFL2K1 plus graphics quality definitely equal to what EA Sports did with Madden NFL 2001.
Re:This is Sega just being Sega (Score:2)
I saw one of those for sale in a shop here (in Ireland) years ago. It was never bought, probably because the Genesis and SNES were the first generation of consoles to really become popular; no-one had any Master System games to run.
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"Where, where is the town? Now, it's nothing but flowers!"
Stuff (Score:2)
Anyway, check out this article [cnet.com] with news on where Sega is heading, including making games for PS2, Gamecube and Gameboy Advance.
Sega's got a good head on its shoulders when it comes to software. I wouldn't fret about them totally dying out (and I can't wait to see the Sega developers cut loose on the PS2. They might release some of the best games to hit the system).
Re:This is Sega just being Sega (Score:2)
LK
PS2 TV Out? (Score:2)
I don't want to start a war on that issue though, the Dreamcast has some great games and I may still buy one for the games that do not make it to the PS2. My original point is that even if the games look great, as good, or slightly worse on the PS2 than on the Dreamcast it does not matter, it's still a boon for the PS2 over the Xbox in the very short term. Eventually Sega will probably make all of the same games for the XBox, there just will probably not be as many of them out at the XBox launch as the PS2 has.
Now, what are you talking about with the TV output of the system? I use SVideo (my TV is a bit old and doesn't support component cables) and it looks great. I even used the composite out for a bit before I got the SVideo cable and the TV out looked fine to me. I've not seen many people complain about the output clarity of the PS2, there are things that have valid issues (system menus) but that is not one of them.
Re:CE was the cause of death (Score:2)
Re:Wow! New News! (Score:3)
Re:DC ISO's (Score:3)
This is not surprising at all. (Score:4)
We got tonnes of customers around Christmas who wanted the standard items, like, an extra Controller. Sega kept promising delivery, but most of the stuff people were looking didn't show up for 4 months!
Games were released that Sega quickly found didn't actually work in the console (Something to do with the quality of the CD they printed the games on causing problems with the copy-protection scheme in the console).
People who bought the consoles despite these major flaws (And me telling them when the boss was in the back room "Don't buy this thing, it's absolute crap! it really is, seriously, don't.... ever. don't.") - well, these people showed up week after week waiting for the games scheduled for quick release; and they didn't come out on time either. By the time I left compucentre, they had all the controllers, memory packs and lots and lots of games for the Dreamcast - as well as 4 console units that never sold in 4 months because by that time - nobody wanted the damn things.
This particular store could sell 5 - 10 Playstation Consoles in a single day; which is very good for retail in a small Canadian city eh.
No independent software because of DMCA (Score:2)
Also, people are WRITING software for it because the protection can be beaten
The boot sector of all Dreamcast discs contains an access control measure under the DMCA: it contains 14 KB of data that must match data in ROM bit-for-bit, or the disc won't boot. And this 14 KB of data contains code that displays trademarks (renewable perpetually in the USA) and is copyrighted (also perpetual [8m.com] in the USA).
Like Tetris? Like drugs? Ever try combining them? [pineight.com]
Re:Sigh.... (Score:2)
Works, though.
--Just Another Pimp A$$ Perl Hacker
Re:Nintendo? Vaporous? I think not... (Score:2)
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"You owe me a case of beer. Sucka'."
The way of things to come (Score:3)
The major console systems as of before Dreamcast bowed out were Nintendo (Nintendo 64), Sony (Playstation 2) and Sega (Dreamcast), with Microsoft coming soon with the X-box. Nintendo has been slowly dying out over the past few years, with much of the Nintendo and Sega crowd going over to the Playstation and Playstation 2.
What it looks like will happen is that in a year or so, we will hear Nintendo barely hanging on as the X-box comes out. Unless Nintendo pulls a power move, probably in the handheld gaming market (which will probably be the rumored upcoming GameBoy Advance), they will bow out soon also.
Sony will be the only competitor to Microsoft. Hopefully, Sony will solidify it's consumer base and hold on to them with a drastic reduce in price of it's console and a wide variety of good, solid games, along with development of their online gaming division.
Unfortunately, what probably will happen is that Sony will drop the ball this year. Microsoft will release the X-box to a small audience and start out slow. The X-box and PS2 will be in competition for about a year, maybe 18 months, with Microsoft gaining ground as Sony loses ground. Microsoft will win out by offering lower prices and integration with the PC platform, along with a wide variety of online games. This will probably also lead to Microsoft licensing it's game operating system, and new consoles, all running X-box OS will pop up, all sanctioned by Microsoft. Sony will become a very minor player, eventually dying out sometime in the next 5 years.
Unfortunately, that's the way it most likely will turn out.
icanneverbereached@sogoaway.com aint my address.
Re:A console monopoly is good news. (Score:5)
On the contrary, console competition is a good thing, just like it is in practically every other business. Sony kinda fscked up with the PS2 release, by limiting (intentionally or not) the number of units, and not having a good selection of games at release. The result? A bunch of pissed off gamers who can't get a PS2, and another bunch who got them, but are wondering why they bothered for 3-4 decent games.
Think maybe MS and Nintendo will take a cue from that? One can only imagine the marketing opportunities. "XBox: Go ahead and sleep in, we made plenty". "GameCube: Cause one game isn't enough".
Re:Dreamcast/N64 (Score:2)
My take (Score:3)
The dreamcast is the only online console right now, and according to UPS my ethernet adapter should be on my doorstep this afternoon. Phantasy Star Online ought to kick ass, and give Everquesters a run for their money.
Someone pointed out that the DC runs WinCE, which isn't true most of the time, but it is for Nightmare Creatures 2, as evidenced by the first 10 minutes of playing the game on my birthday: Pic 1 [the-collective.net], Pic 2 [the-collective.net]
Sega makes some of the most unique games out there, from Jet Grind Radio to Seaman to Crazy Taxi... It would be worth your while to check them out if you haven't already.
My $0.02
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PS/2? No way, it's PSX2! (Score:3)
I remember thinking "Sony can't possibly win"... (Score:2)
The PS1, IMHO, sucked compared to the competition but it had so many damn games... and that is peoples' main motivation for buying a console: does it have games? Is this an investment that I can buy other games for?
It just goes to show that Microsoft and Sony both know how to market aggressively and appeal to the people/industries at large.
What I can't wait to see is them going head-to-head. It's really going to get interesting now, since neither one has been known to back down from an industry.
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Re:Corporate schizophrenia (Score:2)
Re:DC ISO's (Score:2)
Dreamcast NOT Dead (Score:5)
There will be more Dreamcast games, more Dreamcast accessories, and, in all likelihood, more Dreamcast (or Dreamcast-compatible) consoles. Look at the other articles on IGN (http://dreamcast.ign.com/news/30862.html, for instance) for more details.
-Puk
This is Sega just being Sega (Score:3)
After the Genesis, I swore to never buy another Sega console system again, I'm as happy as ever about that decision.
Sega gets no more chances to stick a red hot poker in my eye.
Now that I've sworn off all console systems, I couldn't care less who is making or discontinuing what and what is or isn't vaporous.
I'm a PC gamer now, at least until something better comes along.
LK
Re: (Score:2)
You're kidding, right? (Score:3)
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