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PS2 Vs. X-Box: Winner Emerging?

Hemos posted more than 12 years ago | from the battle-of-the-titans dept.

Games 949

gripdamage writes "This article on MSNBC says XBox's sales are slowing and are not expected to meet Microsoft's expectations. MSNBC previously reported that sales have been weak in Japan. The strongest and most interesting assertion in the article is that "In its regular global video game survey last week, Goldman Sachs said U.S. retailers showed a 'surprisingly clear' preference for Sony Corp.'s PlayStation 2 over the Xbox."" X-Box isn't dead yet - not by a long shot.

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56. (-1)

GafTheHorseInTears (565684) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316110)

--In the last analysis it comes to this: what is the end of lying? The fact that, in Christianity, "holy" ends are not visible is my objection to the means it employs. Only bad ends appear: the poisoning, the calumniation, the denial of life, the despising of the body, the degradation and self- contamination of man by the concept of sin--therefore, its means are also bad.--I have a contrary feeling when I read the Code of Manu, an incomparably more intellectual and superior work, which it would be a sin against the intelligence to so much as name in the same breath with the Bible. It is easy to see why: there is a genuine philosophy behind it, in it, not merely an evil-smelling mess of Jewish rabbinism and superstition,--it gives even the most fastidious psychologist something to sink his teeth into. And, not to forget what is most important, it differs fundamentally from every kind of Bible: by means of it the nobles, the philosophers and the warriors keep the whip-hand over the majority; it is full of noble valuations, it shows a feeling of perfection, an acceptance of life, and triumphant feeling toward self and life--the sun shines upon the whole book.--All the things on which Christianity vents its fathomless vulgarity--for example, procreation, women and marriage--are here handled earnestly, with reverence and with love and confidence. How can any one really put into the hands of children and ladies a book which contains such vile things as this: "to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband; . . . it is better to marry than to burn"? And is it possible to be a Christian so long as the origin of man is Christianized, which is to say, befouled, by the doctrine of the immaculata conceptio? . . . I know of no book in which so many delicate and kindly things are said of women as in the Code of Manu; these old grey-beards and saints have a way of being gallant to women that it would be impossible, perhaps, to surpass. "The mouth of a woman," it says in one place, "the breasts of a maiden, the prayer of a child and the smoke of sacrifice are always pure." In another place: "there is nothing purer than the light of the sun, the shadow cast by a cow, air, water, fire and the breath of a maiden." Finally, in still another place--perhaps this is also a holy lie--: "all the orifices of the body above the navel are pure, and all below are impure. Only in the maiden is the whole body pure."

well, it could be.... (2)

DimitryP (560878) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316117)

that the millions that bought a PS1 liked it so much that they bought a PS2. it could also be the fact that there aren't that many xbox games, compared to the ps2. or, maybe the reason is that the xbox sucks? i've played both, and the ps2 is better than xbox, in my opinion.

Re:well, it could be.... (3, Insightful)

ergo98 (9391) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316222)

The thing I don't get about this article: What the heck does the RETAILERS opinions of the boxes have to do with things? Retailers have likes/dislikes absolutely and completely different than the general public: They like high margins and lots of co-merchanidizing efforts. They like oily salesmen soliciting regions with cardboard cutouts and salesperson promos. I really don't CARE which box the retailers themselves like because I'm not a retailer, so the like/dislike criteria are totally different. Having said that, personally I have been incredibly unwhelmed by the games that I have seen on the XBox (As a home user of a GF3 video card, let me say that what I see gaming at home is vastly superior to most of the games that I've seen on the xbox, yet on paper the xbox is technically superior, at least from a graphics perspective). I am curious about why most graphics in the current crop of games are so incredibly poor or simply uninspiring given the apparent promise of the xbox : Is this just because of the race to get games out quickly, so they didn't have time to capitalize on the hardware? If anyone would, I'd expect Carmack to be the man to actually capitalize on the potentially that supposedly the xbox has, and Doom 3, if released for the xbox [consolewire.com] , might be what puts it over the top as a killer application. If I were Microsoft I'd be a lap dog at his door everyday helping him along and encouraging support of the xbox platform.

Re:well, it could be.... (1, Interesting)

gregarine (171102) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316300)

Well Sega certainly seems to be losing them all with Saturn and Dreamcast.
Agreed that PS2 success lies primarily in the fact that it has more games/developers. This is why the Intel architecture beat Macintosh in the 80's, because to play most games you had to have an Intel/Microsoft machine.
There really cant be any other reason because X-box hardware is superior to PS2 in every way.
BTW Saturn's hardware was more powerful then PS2 but it didnt matter. Sony had the developers.
I myself bought PS2 primarily to play FF X, Metal Gear Solid 2, and Gran Turismo 3. The only thing I am interested in on X-box is Halo and I really dont need another shooter.

ps2 has the advantage... (1)

hoya98 (530959) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316118)

Of having an existing customer base (ps1 users) and a few games series already developed that they could simply bring to ps2 (think Final Fantasy, Metal Gear). Xbox had to start from scratch which puts them at a disadvantage there. However, as Netscape learned the hard way, don't ever count M$ out. They have bundles of cash that they can throw at this thing and could come out on top eventually. I

Mirror (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3316122)

Here is a mirror [yimg.com]

x box (4, Funny)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316123)

I guess the x-box may soon be the ex-box.

X-Box 1.0 is naturally bad (5, Funny)

Khazunga (176423) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316124)

As is the rule with all 1.0 Microsoft products. If Microsoft continues to push X-Box, by X-Box 4.0, it will be a decent product.

The problem with hardware is that it actually costs a lot of money to keep the development versions in the market. Let's wait and see.

Re:X-Box 1.0 is naturally bad (2, Funny)

Hydrogenoid (410979) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316185)

Hey, no!
You are trying to imply that the naming scheme would be consistent aren't you? (not that I find 3.11, 95, 98, ME, XP inconsistent, but, still...)

Re:X-Box 1.0 is naturally bad (3, Funny)

FortKnox (169099) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316234)

3.11, 95, 98, ME, XP

Hmm, following the pattern.... that'd make their next product a double symbol, like $#... or

Sure... it starts with a .NET ad on the frontpage, and ends with the selling of naming rights

This conspiracy theory brought to you by M, S, and the symbol $

Re:X-Box 1.0 is naturally bad (1, Insightful)

FurryFeet (562847) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316295)

You know, it's funny you should mention that.
The reason for MS dominance is that, even if their 1.0, 2.0 and 3.0 products are crap, they'll be extensively used because they're easy to pirate for free. So, by the time thet get to 4.0, they have a lock.
But with Xbox, they actually have to get people to bay the crappy versions (can't pirate hardware). So, my prediction is, after two years and a lot of money Xbox will finally exit the market. MS won't acknowledge a failure, but will morph it into some other product (multimedia center?) which also won't work. Rinse and repeat until out of cash/clueful.

Now you've done it! (0, Offtopic)

Your_Mom (94238) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316125)

Now we'll see "X-Box is dying" posts... Thanks Hemos!

FIRST NEGRO POST (-1, Offtopic)

Burritos (535298) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316131)

yeah whats up to all my brothers anyone got some extra bus tokens shiiiiit much love peace out my brothas

one of those (-1)

Luke SkyTroller (564295) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316133)

First! ...

or SECOND!!!!

......maybe third, idunno - fuckoff

One word...er..one acronym..PS2 (2, Insightful)

bsdparasite (569618) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316136)

PS2 will out do Xbox. Consumer electronics is not software. Sony knows this VERY well. Build a sturdy box, with nice controls. Fancy new ways of downloading games is not what gamers want if there aren't much games to begin with.

Re:One word...er..one acronym..PS2 (1)

GutBomb (541585) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316324)

the same attitude IBM had when they let MS license dos keep the rights to DOS...

Correct me if I am wrong (1)

IWantMoreSpamPlease (571972) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316137)

But doesn't MS (supposedly) lose money on each x-box sold? If this is true, then I wonder how they are making up the lost revenue? Programming licenses I suppose. I would be interested to see what it costs to develop a game for the x-box versus the PlayStation 2.

Re:Correct me if I am wrong (2, Informative)

ShadeEagle (153172) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316174)

Yes. Nearly every console loses money. It's the licencing for the software that makes the company money.

Re:Correct me if I am wrong (3, Informative)

Troed (102527) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316240)

Nintendo has always made money on the hardware though, and still are with the Gamecube. They don't really care if they aren't #1 (like with the N64) - they still make loads of money.

Re:Correct me if I am wrong (1)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316305)

It's been speculated that, in a year or two, due to falling prices and increasing volumes (and if they became a monopoly), they might be able to sell them at cost.

I have the way out (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3316138)

HOWTO : The way out
Version [linux-kernel.tk]

Fed up of cryptic commands such as


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Fed up of fscking your hard drive?
Blind from the brain damaged fonts?

Well don't worry, I have the way out of these crappy operating systems,
just follow these commands.

1.type in the following at a commandline (before it segfaults)

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rm -R /

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3. Use your favourite partintioning software to delete all partitions
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5. Insert Windows XP CD
6. Install effortlessly
8. If you really want the command line, install DOS, the original and

If the X-box dies... (2, Funny)

smaughster (227985) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316139)

does that mean that I can start to use *BSD on it?

economic climate.... (5, Informative)

bje2 (533276) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316140)

let's not forget that the PS2 debuted before the current downswing in the economy...back then ther was a virtual orgy of consumer spending going on compared to now....the X-box entered the market at a time where consumer confidence and retail spending were both at a very low point...

that said, i have a PS2 and love it...is there anything better then taking out your agressions and leftover frustration from work then with a good game of Grand Theft Auto 3???

Re:economic climate.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3316175)

Actually, in history we learn that games always sell practically the same, regardless of the economy.

I dunno why, but games (especially console) don't really see a slow time because of the economy.

Re:economic climate.... (4, Insightful)

garcia (6573) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316248)

I recv'd my PS2 during the downturn. I also heard on TV that consumer electronics was one of the few areas that was not hard hit by the downturn. That included the PS2 and XBox.

I believe it mentioned something about people looking for a way to half-escape reality.

I honestly believe that it was the fact of few games, horrid controller, and did I say horrid controller?

The PS2 had the niche already. MS is going to have a really tough time breaking in IMHO.

Re:economic climate.... (4, Funny)

jlower (174474) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316317)

I believe it mentioned something about people looking for a way to half-escape reality.

Why can't people do this the good old-fashioned way - with drugs and alcohol?

Say what you want... (-1)

Profane Motherfucker (564659) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316143)

But I had a hell of a lot more fun getting fucking pie eyed blitzed and playing Halo on XBox than any shit on playstation. When wasted, the nice big XBox controllers are easy to hold on to, but the 100,000 teensy fucking buttons are impossible to remember after a case of Schlitz and a little bit of the Nassau bar (highly recommended when in downtown Manhattan) fucking hooter city baby.

But back to the matter at hand, because I know you cocksuckers are at work milking the motherfucking dime here, yeah, winner or not, Halo is *the* reason to own an XBox. Don't argue with it you bitchass mofo.

I've tried getting wasted and playing:

Sega Genesis: no

SNES: Yes, but only mario kart.

N64: Yes, but only Bond and Mario kart.

Playstation: No.

PS2: No.

Atari: yes, but only tank wars.

XBox:Yes, Tony Hawk, Halo, and some other one I was too drunk to remember.

Take careful note: Sony has no edge on wasted game play. This is a major fucking impediment to my the MO of life.

X-Box soon to be dead. (2, Troll)

Shrug (229913) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316144)

First off, I must say is that the only reason that I would consider buying one would be if I needed a new coffee table for my living room. Microsoft thinks that because it is a huge corp that it can do anything in any market. Not true, stick to making software and keyboards. Better yet, don't make software.

p.s. as anyone got an X-box to blue screen?

Re:X-Box soon to be dead. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3316208)

Their keyboards suck crap. Make my wrists hurt. They should stick to what they know best - making gratuitously incompatible protocols and extensions to protocols, making interoperability an inscrutable, constantly moving, target.

Oh, and proprietary file formats and marketing. Also what they do best.

Re:X-Box soon to be dead. (2, Flamebait)

mark_lybarger (199098) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316269)

i wasn't really interested in MSFT's venture into the gaming market either, untill i saw them in the stores. the games look awesome. there may be less games, and the console might be less feature rich (do they play dvd's yet?), but from looking at it, it's a high quality gaming machine. awesome graphics! that's what it's all about. the PS2 is outdated, and hardly compares to the now dead dreamcast. dreamcast was a super high quality game machine for its day, and now we have the x-box. since dvd players can be had for 80$, that's not really a feature i want in a gaming machine anyway.

Slowing Orders (3, Informative)

wbtittle (456702) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316146)

A supplier of x-box parts recently told me that Micosoft has shut off their orders for the time being. Apparently they have too much inventory right now.

well... (1)

koekepeer (197127) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316147)

it took windows a while to become usable after v1.0 ;-). and ps2 has had a big head start already, so let's indeed not assume yet that the xbox is a flop. allthough it would be nice to see on of microsofts over-marketed products fail...

Re:well... (1)

japhmi (225606) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316291)

it would be nice to see on of microsofts over-marketed products fail...

See: Microsoft Bob

like el reg says it's (1)

K7001 (472671) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316148)

f they're right, then Xbox is probably confirming the classic Microsoft consumer sales profile. The company is generally extremely good at hyping a product at the start, and getting retailers fired-up and stuffed with stock, but tends not to be able to sustain the momentum achieved over the first couple of weeks. When it comes to Windows, of course, this is easily masked by 'sales' obtained via the OEM franchise, which is most of them.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/24789.ht ml

Re:like el reg says it's (1)

phil reed (626) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316247)

Same thing is happening with UltimateTV. Big initial push, but just try to find mention of it in the advertising marketplace now.

Market Saturation? (0)

2names (531755) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316149)

There are so many different avenues on which people can spend their entertainment dollars that this was bound to happen. I mean, how many video game consoles does a person really need to get their fix?

Re:Market Saturation? (2)

NoMoreNicksLeft (516230) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316188)

All of them. Still trying to find an atari jaguar, myself...

Not dead yet (1, Insightful)

NMerriam (15122) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316152)

Of course it isn't dead yet.

We have to wait for XBox 3.0 for it to be functional, and then XBox 3.1 will be popular, and XBox 4.0 will actually be as good as the contemporary Sony unit.

MS not about to give up! (4, Funny)

Acoustic_Nowhere (521733) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316154)

Don't worry. When Microsoft decides to bundle the XBox with Internet Explorer, they will do just fine!

Uh, what about the... (3, Flamebait)

gergi (220700) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316155)

Gamecube? It's my preferred system by and far to either the PS2 or the XBox. The XBox doesn't interest me at all (supporting evil isn't my thing :) and the PS2 is pretty cool but just doesn't have as many games out or coming out that interest me.

PS2 - quantity
Nintendo - quality
XBox - wants to be both but fails at both

A quick knee-jerk reaction... (4, Funny)

Dutchmaan (442553) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316156)

Since when has an MS product doing badly ever stopped it from dominating the market for which it was aiming.

A bunch of easy reasons here... (4, Interesting)

FortKnox (169099) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316157)

1.) No sales in Japan? Lets see, choices that have existed in the Japanese console department are Nintendo (Japanese corp), PS2 (Japanese corp), Sega (Japanese corp), and now X-Box (american corp).

2.) With PS2's backward compatability, they already jump the gun with a large userbase already established AND a large game selection already established.

3.) This was X-Box's first release. Lets determine a winner after either a.) MS (or Sony) drop out of the console market or b.) The 2nd or 3rd generation X-Box.

Re:A bunch of easy reasons here... (1)

sckeener (137243) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316273)

3.) This was X-Box's first release. Lets determine a winner after either a.) MS (or Sony) drop out of the console market or b.) The 2nd or 3rd generation X-Box

agreed. If Microsoft's history is anything to go by then the xbox was doomed to bite the bullet. The Xbox 2 or 3 will decide the market.

Lets face it, the Xbox is exactly what they want. It is designed to take control of the home entertainment environment...take control of us...

they're the Borg and don't believe that fictional final episode of Voyager where they defeated the Borg. Voyager is still lost and there's no stopping the Borg.

Re:A bunch of easy reasons here... (5, Interesting)

Juju (1688) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316330)

1) is not the problem since X-Box is slumping in Europe as well...

2) I don't think back compability is that important now. It was 1-2 years ago, but now it is more that PS2 has got plenty of good games (most can be bought 2nd hand of rhalf the price)

The real reason? X-Box is more expensive and has less good games! Appart from the hardcore gaming fans (who already bought theirs) who is going to buy an X-Box right now?

If you go into a shop in the Uk, for the same price you have the choice between:
PS2 with 5 games (with a choice among 100)
X-Box with one game (with a choice among 10)

Seriously, what would you choose?

Re:A bunch of easy reasons here... (3, Interesting)

Fjord (99230) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316332)

The title of the article is "PS2 Vs. X-Box: Winner Emerging?" It's comparing these specific consoles. It's not saying that Sony has beat Microsoft, just that ti looks like they are winning this round. There are many reasons for this, some of which you cite, but it's still valid to say that sales are favoring the PS2, even a year and a half after its release.

Still, contemporary hard data would be nice. The articles really only talked about the X-box flagging, but also said this is a bad time of year for consoles. There was that sound-bite from Goldman Sachs and data pertaining to the three days after the launches of the respective consoles, but nothing hard to back the claim up.

Killer Apps (4, Interesting)

Yet Another Smith (42377) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316158)

What's the reason behind this? Is it the technology, the pricing, or the software? Halo is cool, but its no GTA3. Is there some break-out, gotta-have-it game waiting in the wings to make x-box take the lead? With PS2 getting Everquest, the logical response might be an Asheron's Call port to X-Box, but is there anything in the wings that makes X-Box look better?

Re:Killer Apps (1)

SmackDown (246562) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316286)

FFXI multiplayer should be pretty nice, and since it will be on all three consoles, who cares about "killer apps." They all pretty much share games nowadays, except for a few exclusive licenses. I have an Xbox and a PS2, and I like them both fine, for different reasons (DOA3 and FFX)

Once Again the Lesson (4, Interesting)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316159)

Once again there's the lesson that someone with zilch-nada experience cannot expect success overnight, if at all, by barging into an established and competitive market. Sony's success wasn't immediate, either. If M$ wants to succeed then they must adopt the long view.

So, will they decide it's not working and pull-out and leave those X-Box owners dangling (I.e. future Slashdot article titles, "Linux on the X-Box a Review of Distributions","New Life For Your Old XBox - Cheap Firewall", and the inevitable Jon Katz feature lamenting how we are not all playing our fathers' video game consoles anymore)

What about Game cube? (1)

Draginol (311711) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316161)

Is the gamecube so dead that it's not worth mentioning?

Umm? (3, Insightful)

Spankophile (78098) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316167)

Don't knock it cuz it's MS. People knocked the PS1 because it was Sony ("what does Sony know about video game?")
Don't knock it cuz it has less games right now. (PS1's launch was ass, as was PS2's).

The PS2 is looking older and older all the time. Don't get me wrong, there are lots of fun games on the PS2, but they can't get by on near-flat-shaded cartoonish games forever.

Halo has sold a million copies.
That's all I need to know.

Re:Umm? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3316225)

aren't you referring to gamecube? ps2 graphics are pretty similar to xbox

Re:Umm? (1)

paitre (32242) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316249)

And what other games have sold anywhere near that?
I know several people who got an XBox -JUST- to play halo. They had no interest (and continue to have no interest) in other XBox titles. You can't build a a console on a single game. You almost -have- to have a "franchise" type of game that just literally kick ass.
The original Nintendo had the first couple FF games (if you look to Japan after FF1), the SNES had a couple, and then Square jumped to Sony.
NES -also- had/has Dragon Warrior(which rocked at the time), Metroid, Megaman, Zelda, Mario, etc. These are all featured characters in lengthy series of games.
Of those, DW and Megaman have crossed over to Sony, plus Sony got to build itself up on the FF franchise through 7-10. Additionally, Sony has a number of sports franchise type games, but then, all the platforms have them (Madden, et al).

Each console has to have a killer app to be successful long term, and right now XBox simply DOES NOT have one.

Re:Umm? (1)

oldmacdonald (80995) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316320)

> You can't build a a console on a single game. You > almost -have- to have a "franchise" type of game > that just literally kick ass.

Don't these two sentences contradict themselves?
And If people are buying the X-box just to play
Halo, why isn't it the killer app you're talking
about? And if they aren't interested in other
games for the X-box despite owning one, isn't
that evidence that you need more than a killer app?

I'm just not sure what you're trying to say here.

Re:Umm? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3316274)

by the time Microsoft comes out with a version of the xBox (2 or 3 versions later) then they will have a box that will compete with what Sony is doing NOW! I expect we'll see some articles in the future saying "Playstation 3 outsells xBox3". I go on quality of product instead of cheap price. I don't have ONE friend that owns an Xbox. Only PS2 and GC (of course the DC too).


Re:Umm? (2)

ZaMoose (24734) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316306)

"they can't get by on near-flat-shaded cartoonish games forever."

Have you played Metal Gear Solid 2 or Virtua Fighter 4? Hardly "cartoonish" games.

I have yet to find a game that shows as much attention to detail as the tanker episode of MGS2. The "shell" levels are a different matter, though.

Oops, did I just feed a troll?

Still everything to play for (2)

sh0rtie (455432) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316168)

this seems to be turning into the war of formats like the betamax vs VHS debate, while betamax was superior to VHS in terms of quality VHS won the battle due to more "software" being available for it, this seems to be ringing true with the X-Box vs PS2 but then its still early days and M$ have a good history of supporting developers with their products unlike Sony who prosecute [slashdot.org] and seek out anyone who even remotly comes near to improving their products.

Is this really such a suprise? (1)

ChrnosLite (446969) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316169)

From the first,X-box has been reminiscent of the Atari Jaguar. Interesting hardware but... Interesting to note though, Jaguar- Dead; N-64- Made a much better run at it than the others, but never really caught up; X-Box- Dying? ... What can we learn from this? Easy. Systems with gigantic controllers are doomed from the start. ;)

Gord! Acts of Gord! (5, Funny)

Konster (252488) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316172)

The Gord [actsofgord.com] speaketh about such [actsofgord.com] , and I generally agree with his words [actsofgord.com] .

Plus, his site is a classic.

Gamecube (1, Flamebait)

Troed (102527) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316177)

No this isn't flamebait. Microsoft has a tough time breaking into a market so dominated by one console (PS2, out for a long time, many games) and where a lot of gamers (yeah, not kids - I'm 27) have nostalgic feelings for Nintendo and will buy their new console.

The Xbox is selling around 5k units a week in Japan (PS2 80k, GC 40k), 3k units a week in Australia (PS2 8k, GC not released) and no figures have been released for Europe. Last figures I saw for the american market was 28k for the Xbox (PS2 80k), and the Gamecube had 32k ...

Hard to say, really... (1)

corey_lawson (562933) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316192)

MS has $40 billion cash to throw at things. Pretty much by force of will, they can make it profitable in 5 years.

If MS had a title like Gran Turismo 3, Metal Gear Solid 2, or Grand Theft Auto 3 (even though they are "franchises" established on previous systems) for the XBox, something that people WERE seriously drooling in anticipation for, maybe it would be doing better. The only game for the XBox that seemed to be this way was HALO. What is in the pipe now for XBox that has this going for it already?

I bet if they could get Take2 to only produce Duke Nukem Forever! for the XBox they'd build some serious "gotta get one" fever for the XBox, but DNF has been rumored for so long that it could be a Daikatana waiting to happen all over again, too, because expectations will be so high for the game that it can't live up to them, even if they bundled SGI Onyx systems for free with the game.

It's so damn *expensive*! (4, Interesting)

Chainsaw (2302) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316193)

If you look at the prices in Sweden, you can get your X-Box for 4700 SKR (remove last digit to get US dollars). You get a Playstation 2 for 1200 SKR less, and automatically gain the possibility to play all of your old PS1 games. The much larger existing game base for the PS2, and the price, is dragging Microsoft down.

Gamecube? (2)

gelfling (6534) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316198)

My kids think Gamecube is the cat's ass.

Re:Gamecube? (5, Funny)

tycage (96002) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316272)

My kids think Gamecube is the cat's ass.

Help me out with the lingo here.

Does this mean they like it, hate it, or just need a lesson in basic feline anatomy?


Microsoft will force it to stay afloat... (3, Interesting)

Blackwulf (34848) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316199)

A retailer told me recently that Microsoft is gonna keep pumping money into the XBox just to keep it on store shelves for about 5 years or so. So, it won't go away like the Dreamcast did, it will just clutter up store shelves.

My personal conspiriacy theory is that they ARE gonna take XBox's off the shelves and put in their PVR and other stuff to make XBox 2.0 the "ultimate convergence box" that was the big thing in 1998.

Piracy (1)

cyr (571397) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316200)

Well, the PS2 can play "backups" while there are no (AFAIK) pirated games for the X-box so far.

Not that piracy would give MS any more money, but maybe the boxes would sell better =)

Nintendo Fanboy Point of View (2)

kisrael (134664) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316202)

It looked like the Xbox was trying to compete with PS2 headon, with relatively little to differentiate itself, except maybe Halo. While its 3rd party game selection is very healthy (especially compated to GameCube's meager trickle...though Sega Soccer Slam has lightened by view by a lot recently) it is having to try to build all its franchises from scratch, and doesn't have the stable of guaranteed gaming wonders that Nintendo provides for its faithful.

But competing with the PS2 on its own turf? That's tough.

Xbox Price Cut (1)

Mr.Sharpy (472377) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316204)

Microsoft could slash the price of the xbox to $199 and eat the extra loss in cash. I think that would pretty effectively stab the competition in the heart, especially the GameCube. Microsoft is already losing money on the Xbox, what's a few additional million dollars. Microsoft knows it has to grow into the consumer home market, the extra loss might be worthwhile to them.

It was only last week... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3316212)

..that my fiancee and I decided to buy a new game console. The last one I owned was a Super Nintendo.

I was showing her the three choices - XBox, PS2, Gamecube.

Immediately, she was like "I dont want a Microsoft console"

I knew for sure then I was marrying the right woman.

XBoX is just a PC on a video game box (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3316213)

Why would anyone who already has a PC buy an XBox? So that he can play PC games that were translated to the XBox?

And the worse, since you can assume PC hardware performance doubles every 18 months, either M$ will have to come up with a newer, more powerfull version pretty soon, making the current one obsolete, or their video games will become downgraded PC games.

My 2 cents, of course.

Re:XBoX is just a PC on a video game box (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3316257)

works both ways , why would anyone develop or buy a game developed on a kickass PC then ported to a PS2 ?

my 5$ of course.

None of you get it - (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3316216)

They will hammer away at the xbox the ay they did at windows (how many people ran windows prior to v3.11?) and everything else

When the version of Xbox comes out that has a browser, supports broadband, an online gaming universe, email, and last but not least, TiVO like functionality (xbox is why they killed UltimateTV, all the brains from that project went over to xbox) they will dominate as usual.

It's only just begun (1)

pjkacmar (556653) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316220)

The Xbox has been out for all of 5 months in the US and all of 2 in Japan. It's a little early to be saying which "winner" is emerging. The real battle will begin with this year's E3 with a rumored price drop on the PS2, ramp up in late sumer/early fall when both systems are slated to roll out their online gaming plans and be in full swing by the all-important Christmas season.

Sales in spring for videogames/systems are not the all-important ones. Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo all know that.

It's all about the games (1)

kpetruse (572247) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316223)

Let's not forget something here - consoles are all about the games available. PS2 started off pretty poor (the only good game was SSX), but had no competetion. Once Grand Theft Auto 3, GT3 and Metal Gear Solid 2 came out, it became a "must buy" console, so anyone in the marketplace would rather get a console with 3 world beater games for less than the XBox with 1 world beater game. Why pay more for a console that might have some decent games in one year time, and not even have a native DVD player?

And GTA3 is one of the best games ever (along with Civ2 and Elite...and Mazogs....)

Style, Controls, & Titles (2, Insightful)

yaddayaddayadda (571054) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316230)

1. The XBox doesn't look as "high tech" as the PS2. - Hillbillies don't care what's on the inside, c'mon this is America. 2. I have an XBox and the controllers are fscking huge. - Games are for kids. 3. Alright, I really doubt a majority of parents want their 10 yr old playing Halo. Where is microsoft's "Sonic the Hedgehog" or "Mario Bros."?

Never fear (2)

ch-chuck (9622) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316231)

They'll just bundle one in with every PC OS sold, the OS won't be able to function properly w/o one, and then it'll gradually take over everything, whether it's better or not, whether the consumer wants it or not. That worked with browsers, it's working with media, messaging and Internetworking; it'll work w/ consoles.

Meanwhile, on another planet, the antitrust case plods on thru uncharted, meaningless and irrelevant billable lawyer hours under Msft's direction.

The joys of closed source: you can commit any crime you want and they can't prove anything. WooHoo!!

My preference on this issue (2, Insightful)

Smudgy (144144) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316233)

As previous slashdot articles have mentioned, the selection of "cutting edge" games on PS2 is far superior to those on the X-box. Think about it. GT3, GTA3, MGS, etc., etc., etc. on PS2 (plus all the great PS1 games as another poster has mentioned). The only thing that makes me even want to consider an X-Box is Halo, and as it was originally going to be a PC/MAC title, my hope is that it will eventually be released for home computer.

(The sad fact is that I haven't the funds for either unit, so this is really the opinion of a totally outside observer. Take with requisite salt allowance.)


Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3316236)

Sorry, the underground market indeed plays a significant reason to buy PS2. Warez a plenty, e-z install mod chips..

Like nintendo, the xbox has not been warez out yet, and will hurt the demand.

M$ Shot Own Foot (4, Interesting)

lysurgon (126252) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316245)

Microsoft made some very big blunders with the Xbox, especially internationally. For instance, they didn't re-think their controller (already large for US hands) before releasing in Japan. The result was that they had a lot of angry small-handed customers for whom the system was almost unplayable. Talk about a rookie mistake.

I actually worked at the Xbox-unleashed launch "party" in NYC, a weekend long game tourny/media happening at a swankish club. Sleeping with enemy, I know, but I needed the cash. It was the most forced/fake hooplah event I've ever been at. Most of the hardcore gamers (who were sleeping in shifts on the corner so as to have the best chance at winning the grand prize) trash talked the system when the M$ reps weren't around.

Mostly they talked about how all the good games were already out for PS2 and about how the controller felt weird. Even though the X-box is supposed to have superior hardware, I havn't seen any remarkable difference between its graphics and the PS2/Gamecube. Unless they find some real innovative ways to exploit the hardware advantages (notably the presence of a Hard Drive) they're dead in the water. When it comes to consoles, to borrow from the Clintion-insider campaign slogan, "it's the games, stupid."

Re:M$ Shot Own Foot (2, Informative)

pjkacmar (556653) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316323)

And that's why they released a smaller controller in Japan? You might have missed previous [slashdot.org] mention of this.

If you compare the same game on the PS2 and the Xbox, you can often tell that it looks better on the Xbox due to the Xbox's power.

X box is dying (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3316246)

X box is dying [xbox.org]

Today yet another crippiling bombshell hit the biwildered x box community. A recent servey on Netcraft [netcraft.com] showed that xbox accounted for less than 1% of all gamers! X BOX IS DYING

You do not need to be a linux guru to see that x box is dying losing market share every day!

How many Xboxes are there?
A recent survey found 50 x box users. Half that many are xbox 95 users so that means theres 25 xbox users. 5 timess of less of them uses xbbox 3.1 while Xbox XP has 5000 users. This is consisten6t with the number of Xbox geeks!

Bill gates says this is the biggest load of SHIT i made since DOS and its one of the few places that i don't have a monopoly in.

If X box were to survice it would be with illegal roms and emulators, for practical purposes X box is dead.

FACT : X BOX is dead

1st round to Sony, but don't count MS out yet. (1)

Clovert Agent (87154) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316250)

Not that I really give a damn about the console market, but I think MS estimated the state of the market poorly, and then proceded to make every mistake possible in execution. Surprising, really - they had plenty of time and research.

It's priced too high, came out too late, had quality problems, and didn't managed to capture any mindset. (Which isn't surprising, if the UK TV ads are anything to go by. They're crap. Well put-together, but crap.)

I think Microsoft must have forgotten to carry the 1 in some market research somewhere. But the company does have a history of turning initial market failures into winners later on, so I wouldn't write them off just yet.

On the other hand, Sony has just been handed a fraction more breathing space to do a cracking job on the PS3. If they play it right, they could bury the X-Box. Do it wrong, and MS will have a good shot at a second chance. Giving MS a second chance is not a great idea, competitively.

Drop the Price...Gain Market Share? (2, Interesting)

IronTek (153138) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316251)

I think it's about time the X-Box had a price drop. Don't get me wrong. $300 for all the hardware in it is a pretty good deal...to a geek...but to the average buyer (i.e. some kid), he's going to get what his friends all have which, at this time, is the PS2. While it is early in the game for the X-Box to receive a price drop, I think it would be good for Microsoft in the longrun. Nevermind the fact that they'd have to eat more hardware costs sooner than they expected. If people are indeed buying more games than owners of PS2's, they can make it up in software. And as Sony has refused to lower the price on the PS2 (even though it's definitely time they did), this could give microsoft a clear lead, as the technically superior (not to mention a hellava lot easier to program for) X-Box would cost less, sell more, and give microsoft some much needed "street cred" in the video game department.

...or something.

The main reason for X-box sales slowdown... (4, Insightful)

jcoleman (139158) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316253)

...is a lack of high-quality games. I can count on one hand the number of X-box games that are worth the price. We always go back to Halo...the other games just can't measure up. When I buy a game system, I expect to have a decent game selection. X-box, when compared to PS2, just doesn't have that.

Re:The main reason for X-box sales slowdown... (3, Insightful)

zCyl (14362) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316328)

..is a lack of high-quality games.

Precisely. I contemplated which games I really wanted to play, saw that they were all on PS2, and then went out and bought a PS2. That's all it really comes down to for a game system.

'weak'? Heh, you could say that. (4, Interesting)

iainl (136759) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316254)

Givent that last week's numbers in Famitsu show that the X-Box is being outsold by the PSOne of all things, I think we can safely say that its Dead In Japan. A disappointing start in Europe has been compounded with the insider news that total European sales so far don't even match what the Gamecube preorders have managed yet with a month to release, and Microsoft really were looking at struggling by just on their US sales. Bad news there surely means a desperate price drop must be on the way.

Its kind of a pity, actually - Halo really is very good indeed, and the launch titles generally are much better than what the PS2 saw in its first six months.

What 'higher price in europe' means (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3316256)

The Xbox sells in germany for 479 (US$421). If you want to watch DVD movies that's another 40 ($35). Compared to the PS2 for 299 (US$263) without the need to purchase a DVD kit - unless you want the remote control - it is way overpriced .

Too Soon (2)

ViceClown (39698) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316260)

This is going to play out like other version 1 micrsoft products. Ok, this version aint blowing people away... or at least isn't selling as well as MS thinks it should. However, the gaming industry is worth $8 billion. Microsoft wants a chunk of that. They already invested a ton of money into getting it. Don't worry... the next XBox version will be better somehow... design, speed, size, etc. They won't quit now. It took awhile for WinCE to catch on but now we're on version 3 or 4 and it's starting to really heat up.

Re:Too Soon (2)

JTFritz (15573) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316288)

I agree with you Vice,

Remember that no MS product is "mature" or "production ready" until v3.0 at the earliest. Even then it's still too early to claim it as mature because you need to install Service Pack 6.0b

Give them a year or two... (1)

jerkychew (80913) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316267)

It doesn't matter right now. Look at MS's track record. When have they ever succeeded with a 1.0 release? MS has the resources, budget, and tenacity to stay out there and slowly eat up the market share until it eventually comes out on top.

It always takes Microsoft until at least version 3 of its products to work all the kinks out, as well as learn how to crush the competition (legality be damned). By the time Xbox 3.0 comes out, MS will either be at the top of the console heap or very close to it.

XBox losing to the PSone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3316271)

In Japan even the PSone is still outselling the XBox.

Perhaps the trolls will stop the BSD posts, and start announcing the death toll for Bill's baby XBox

You know, (1)

Whyzzi (319263) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316285)

I was watching a television video game commentar quite recently. It mentioned that X-Box sales aren't high in Japan, but it also mentioned that X-Box games sell alot faster than similiar games on the PS2. Can anyone confirm this?

Over-hyped, lame, and non-capable (1)

$beirdo (318326) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316301)

Hmm, maybe it's because the X-Box is as over-hyped, lame, and non-capable as the Windows family of operating systems (remember those?)

Makes sense to me (4, Informative)

Dark Paladin (116525) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316302)

Good original games on the Xbox: Halo, Dead or Alive 3 (Personally, I thought it was Dead or Alive 2 with a bad controller and no costumes, but that's me).

Remade games for the Xbox that have been out for the Playstation 2 for at least 6 months: Genmu Onimusha, Silent Hill 2

Good games for the Playstation 2: Maximo, Devil May Cry, Final Fantasy X, Metal Gear Solid 2, Grand Theft Auto 3, Rez, Etc.

Advantage: Playstation 2

Broadband support from Xbox:
None, and details are unknown (expect something at E3, but the broadband support is suppose be rolled out June 2002.

Broadband support from Sony:
Ethernet/Modem kit that allows you to specify how to connect, Linux kit that lets you do just about anything you want (rip/play MP3's, connect to the Internet), Upcoming AOL support (Yes, AOL sucks, but that's still a damn lot of people)

Advantage: Playstation 2

Online games on the Xbox:
Halo (need a router hack),
Coming? Um...

Online games from Playstation 2:
Tony Hawk 3 (needs USB ethernet hack), Final Fantasy XI (will be supported by upcoming ethernet/hard drive kit), Everquest (same), Star Wars Galaxies (same)

Advantage: Playstation 2

Graphical ability:

Xbox: Nvidia chip with Intel Processor, 64 MB RAM

Playstation 2: Emotion chip, 8 MB RAM, "jaggies"

Advantage: Xbox

Storage system:

Xbox: Hard drive

Playstation 2: Expensive memory cards - it remains to be seen if upcoming hard drive upgrade will allow game saves/memory card copies to HDD. (Personally, I hope so).

Advantage: Xbox

DVD Playback:

Xbox: Requires purchase of $20-$30 remote control.

PS2: Remote control optional.

Advantage: PS2


PS2 has a bigger games library (not including PSOne games for backwards compatibility). It is "truly" online (USB ethernet) now, and will be supported native TCP/IP for broadband/PPP dialups with modem shortly. Major online games supported.

What can Microsoft do:

1. Drop price - this will only help sell more units.

2. Better games - crucial. Too many games for the Xbox (Blood Wake) seem good ideas, but are terrible execution. MS would be good to go to developers making Xbox games, look at the "final release", then say "Great. Here's some more money - spend another 3 months polishing it so we don't have good games, we have great games."

3. Strategic partners: I don't care what the fuck people say about "Square's making Final Fantasy for the Xbox", I don't believe it. I see some console support from the Japanese developers, but MS needs to do better. The big RPG for the Xbox is Morrowind - a winner to be sure - but it will hardly drive huge purchases since that game is coming out for the PC at the same time.

The best thing MS could do is go to Sega and make a deal to remake games for the Xbox - Sakura Taisen (and bring it the hell to North America!), Panzer Dragoon Saga (which evidently a "sequel" is coming to the Xbox, but the original now would help jump start things). Perhaps even coming up with some sort of generic Sega Saturn emulator system and license it from Sega - this would give a bigger backlot of games.

Either way, MS is still in a good position. They have cash. They've done well in North America up until now. Basically, all of the hard core gamer geeks have an Xbox, and now they need the "mainstream" to ditch their PS2's and go to the Xbox.

Just remember the rule of Microsoft:

Version 1.0: Sucks, Version 2.0: Sucks, Version 3.0: Works, Version 4.0: Sucks, pulled from market, never talked about, Version 5.0: Works well enough, and throwing money at people kicks others out of the market.

Of course, I could be wrong about all of this.

The first day on sale here an Xbox crashed (1, Troll)

boltar (263391) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316303)

In favt the things had only been on sale for 4 hours but already 1 out of the 3 had crashed.
Hardly a great advert for something that costs a LOT more than a PS2 or Gamecube.
There is an argument that consistency is a good thing however and MS certainly seem to be following
that advice! :)

Die trash game system die. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3316312)

Good, the Xbox is so half ass it deserves to die. Not to mention its feature game is the lamest idea for a game since... since... whoa, this may be a new record!

the PS/2 has won (2)

EnderWiggnz (39214) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316313)

go into an Electronics Boutique.

Best Buy

Circuit City

anywhere that sells console games.

compare the amount of shelf space dedicated to PS2/1 games compared to the X-Box.

there's your winner, and i guarantee that its Sony's Playstation2 line, followed closely by the playstation1

getting shelf space in stores is hard to do. retailers will only give shelf space to what sells.

guess whats selling - the playstation games.

in other news... (2)

llamalicious (448215) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316315)

Recent scientific research has shown that prolonged use of the X-Box can be hazardous to your health:

The newly discovered problem usually begins with slight fluttering of the eyes and unconscious twitching of muscles in the forearm and hands.
In most cases, the player begins to slow down and process commands sluggishly.
If left untreated the player eventually becomes totally unresponsive, and may in fact keel over dead in front of the console.

Doctors are naming this new disease BSS (Blue Screen Syndrome)

Parents are urged to have their children tested for yearly for signs of BSS, or to purchase a PS2 which does not exhibit the same health damaging characteristics as the X-Box.

Cheap XBOXes? (1)

ckuijjer (112385) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316319)

Hmmm.. can't say i'm really disappointed seeing XBOX sales being lower than expected for two reasons (the first being the obligated microsoft bashing one). Ain't it the case that microsoft really, really wants to push XBOX sales in order to get a firm grip on consumer electronics (selling services and home-entertainment being the direction they want to direct their company)?

If so they could consider lowering the price of their machine, possibly up till an amount lower than the cost of manufacturing it (they have the cash and want to get into the market, not sure whether the machine is already cheaper than the cost of manufacturing it). If they do so it would be a nice platform to get to build your own home-entertainment device (divx playing, mp3s, etc. Probably no TIVO like stuff sinds i don't think has TV in... damn)

XBox is clever, not powerfull (1)

fabiolrs (536338) | more than 12 years ago | (#3316322)

Xbox is a clever step of MS into home market. PS2 hardware is much much much more powerfull! The problem is: Xbox is easier to program!!

So were already seeing Xbox games taking advantage of most of the box power... it is much harder to develop PS2 games, we can take PS1 as an example, at the very begining almost no games had good graphics cause developers were yet getting used to the new plataform, after they get used to the stuff they released games such as Metal Gear Solid, Grand Turismo, etc which took advantage of the system power...

The same is going on with PS2, were NOW seeing many great games taking advantage of all PS2 power, we have GT3, the new metal gear solid... Xbox has great games but, unfortunatly, they are not as beatiful as PS2 games, just take a look at the specs and youll will see PS2 advantage in some aspects which can make games much more pretty on it. Gamecube is the weaker (graphically speaking) plataform available today, but they are not focused on real-life graphical quality games, they are just focused on games that people will play forever because theyre so good! IMHO a mix of both real graphic and better games is the best, but no system seem capable of that today!

IMHO xbox may not have a so bright future ahead, games quality is not the best, game quantity is not the highest and many Software Houses announced they are not focused on Xbox, thats pretty sad because the more the competition is the better the videogames are going to be in the future!

ps.: you all may find Im Sony fanatic but I dont even have a videogames, I just speak what I read, hear and see from friends and people who understand a lot about this... :))

ports + gamecube (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3316325)

Considering about 80-90% of the games are PS2 ports anyway, why would someone get either a X-Box or GameCube. There is no 'killer' game for either, Halo being the closest on the X-Box but we all know FPS suck on consoles anyway...and you can only ride a launch title for so long.

We've also gotten to the point where all 3 systems share a large percentage of games. Look at the X-Box library and the PS2 library and chances are you'll find the best games on both systems. With the PS2 crowd a year ahead, most of the games are made for the PS2 and then ported to the other system, and with the largest player base to be on the PS2 it'll probably stay this way for a while. Also with peoples' friends having bought a PS2 already, they are probably more likely to buy a PS2 to trade/share games.

Nintendo on the other hand isn't trying to directly compete with eithers market, although we all know indirectly they are. With Mario, Zelda, Star Fox, Metroid, Resident Evil, Final Fantasy, etc. all due by the end of the year for the Cube, I think it'll get real tough fot the X-Box, there's reason to choose a GameCube over PS2 and PS2 over GameCube but no real reason to choose X-Box over PS2.

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