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The Nintendo Indifference?

simoniker posted more than 11 years ago | from the vicious-mario-slander-or-intervention? dept.

GameCube (Games) 94

Thanks to an anonymous reader for pointing to a new Nintendojo editorial entitled 'The Nintendo Indifference' This noticably bitter editorial on the state of the Big N begins: "I bought my GameCube with the expectation of the delivery of the promise of innovation, and you failed to deliver. Worst of all, I don't forget. Because of your misleading statements, it's time for a reckoning, Nintendo. You owe me." Has Nintendo really "failed to be innovative as a first party developer for their console", or did the writer of this editorial just get out of bed on the wrong side?

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blech (5, Insightful)

sweeney37 (325921) | more than 11 years ago | (#6111522)

While he makes some valid points, it's hard to take this guy seriously. His ranting and raving is almost as bad as some of the trolls that lurk around slashdot.

He was saying to the audience in attendance that the Nintendo Difference for the GameCube was that their would be no "Mega Sequels," only innovative games like Pikmin.

What developer doesn't make extravagant, exuberant claims at an E3 press conference?

He goes on and makes some interesting comments about Mario Sunshine, but then he makes this comment:

Secondly, The Legend of Zelda: The Wind 'Wanker'.

C'mon, how old are we? You have to resort to name-calling to get your point across?

The whole thing is pure dreck, I can't believe the ravings of an immature, name-callling child makes the news.

Mike

Re:blech (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6111851)

Well look who's calling people immature name-calling children?

You cock-gobbler.

Re:blech (1)

Draigon (172034) | more than 11 years ago | (#6112143)

*ahem* I hate to ask this, but why is this news? If you scan the article even briefly you can see it's complete childish crap. You can't wake up on the wrong side of the bed when you sleep in a crib.

Slashdot editors, just fyi, if an "article" starts of with calling people homo's it's probably not worth our bandwidth. I feel embarassed for Nintendojo for having that hosted.

Re:blech (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6113649)

Yeah. They say Gamecube is for stupid children and play PS2 and XBox instead to distinguish themselves with boring adult games from the colourful world of video games.

Re:blech (1)

cgenman (325138) | more than 11 years ago | (#6115162)

It took you as far as The Wind 'Wanker' to realize the immaturity of this child? The comment about homosexual mushroom haircuts didn't tip you off? (BTW, while fungi exhibit both sexual and asexual reproduction, there is only one gender. QED all mushrooms are inherently homosexual.)

The kid was burned by hype and is bitter, plain and simple. While the Cube has many sequals, some of them are considered the best games in the industry right now. Nintendo has a long history of true sequals, sequals that build upon the strength of that which has come before. Anyone with a sense of history should know that, and should apply some degree of independent thought to the hype presented at E3. Resident Evil was a knockoff sequal (by Capcom, not Nintendo), a sequal which provides nothing substantively new, but nobody forced this person to buy it.

If he eloquently stated that the Game Cube needed more original titles and less sequals to draw in an experienced audience, he might have a valid point. But expressing it as a whiny diatribe based on, and I'm summarizing, "That Fa&&ot Said!" leaves the weight of presented evidence a bit underwhelming.

Re:blech (0, Flamebait)

skarmor (538124) | more than 11 years ago | (#6115260)

I thought "The Wind Wanker" was kind of funny. And to be fair, this is news about video games, not political afairs. If you are looking for dead-serious, thought-provoking commentaries you need to look to areas other than video game journalism (whose readers generally appreciate a little immature, childish name-calling).

Re:blech (1)

Draigon (172034) | more than 11 years ago | (#6116207)

"... this is news about video games, not political afairs. If you are looking for dead-serious, thought-provoking commentaries you need to look to areas other than video game journalism (whose readers generally appreciate a little immature, childish name-calling)."

Nobody is asking for some lonely British stereotype wearing a fez in a big leather chair saying "Mmmyes" to give boring opinions on the current state of video games. I'm all for humor, sarcasm, constructive criticism and the like. I just hardly think "Nintendo is poo poo! Poo poo pee pee!" qualifies for anything more than maybe the Tom Green school for journalism.

Re:blech (1)

thelenm (213782) | more than 11 years ago | (#6115933)

I can't believe the ravings of an immature, name-callling child makes the news.

I find it interesting that you call Slashdot "the news". The news contains facts.

(So I Married an Axe Murderer, sort of)

Just Like GBA? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6111593)

I bought a GBA when the first came out. It's almost unplayable. I only bring my GBC when I travel. I'll probably buy the new GBA someday, but I'm think Nintendo has to shape up.

Re:Just Like GBA? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6111765)

Get the Afterburner [tritonlabs.com] . Seriously.

Yes, it'll make the screen a little washed out.
Yes, during installation, the installer will probably catch some dust in it that will ALWAYS be visible whenever you use it.
Yes, it costs another 25 bucks.

But without it, the GBA (sans SP) is unplayable, so you may as well buy one. Metroid Fusion alone makes it worth it.

Re:Just Like GBA? (1)

Masami Eiri (617825) | more than 11 years ago | (#6111818)

Mine installed perfectly. Just need to make sure you're in a reletively dust-free environment and that you apply the screen as soon as you uncover it.

Re:Just Like GBA? (1)

Samus (1382) | more than 11 years ago | (#6114013)

I have to second the nomination for the afterburner. Its literally night and day. I have and sp and two of my brothers have the original. We recently installed the afterburner kits into them and couldn't be more pleased. If you are fearful of a soldering iron or dremel tool there are installers out there that for around 45.00 will mod your gba for you. Also Lik Sang I believe sells cases pre cut for afterburner kits. So for the cost of a new game or so you can have a playable gba.

Re:Just Like GBA? (3, Insightful)

LazerImp (678727) | more than 11 years ago | (#6112292)

Have you tried Wario Ware, Inc for GBA yet? If you haven't, go out and buy it now. Seriously. If you're complaining about Nintendo's lack of innovation on the GBA, Wario Ware is possibly the oddest, most different game I've ever played. And I love it. And so does every single person I've showed it to.

Re:Just Like GBA? (1)

Ochobee (672000) | more than 11 years ago | (#6112755)

C'mon now. Almost unplayable? Granted, you can't play it indoors in a dimly lit area, but I have logged hundreds of hours on my un-modded, stock, bought on day 1 of release GBA and I still play it every day on my breaks at work.How much fun do you have at the airport trying to find a TV to plug your GCN into? I would be the one snickering at you, but I'm too busy playing Golden Sun: The Lost Age...

The guy is right (0, Troll)

schotty (519567) | more than 11 years ago | (#6111599)

Nintendo has been only pumping their own games out. Its sad that the Xbox, Linux, and Macs have more games than the Game Cube.

Re:The guy is right (2, Informative)

Snowspinner (627098) | more than 11 years ago | (#6111847)

And yet I would rather have just Wind Waker than 10 games for the XBox.

Quality > Quantity any day of the week. And Nintendo, while it has many flaws (Arrogance being the biggest), cannot seriously be accused of not putting out brilliant games.

Re:The guy is right (1)

dimator (71399) | more than 11 years ago | (#6112728)

Linux has more games than gamecube? Are you smoking something nice, or are you counting KSokoban, and all that other useless crap?

fp (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6111607)

fourth post you dirty linux fags

eat a big fat dick

Pikmin Was Unique (4, Interesting)

MBCook (132727) | more than 11 years ago | (#6111624)

Pikmin and Animal Crossing

What more do I have to say? Those were two great games, that were also very inavative. What is this guy looking for? Oddities like "Mr. Mosquito"? Yes Nintendo has lots of sequels, but if you look at E3 this year that's just about all there is.

What is there for the XBox or PS2 that's so innovative? I already mentioned "Mr. Mosquito", there is that new game for the PS2 that uses a camera, and Ico was very innovative in many ways. The XBox had... um... I'm not quite sure. MechAssault was somewhat unseen on consoles. I'm sure there are a few more but let's face it, none of the consoles has a ton of innovative games.

So where are they? The PC gets lots of odd games, although they aren't often very big. What does get a ton of games? The GBA. WarioWare Inc (I'm playing this now, it's fantastic), HamHam Heartbreak is sorta unique, it just gets lots of stuff.

All that said, what's so bad about sequels? I'm looking forward to Pikmin 2. There are many sequels that I'm looking forward to. The "sequels suck" thing is just more generalizations that come from games like "SofaSalesmen Tycoon" and "Army Men 312". Many games have sequels done to death, but many are great. I can't wait for Advanced Wars 2 either.

So in short, Nintendo is doing a very good job. Shut up and go find a good game if you want one instead of waiting for the next big thing. Mario Sunshine was no Mario 64, but it was still a pretty good game. Zelda, on the other hand, was simply fantastic. I don't mind sequels if they are well done and top rate.

Re:Pikmin Was Unique (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6111833)

OK, whatever mod decided this was "flamebait" needs to lose all moderation rights forevermore. Someone fix this, kthx?

PlayStation innovation (1)

metamatic (202216) | more than 11 years ago | (#6114779)

Well, I posted this list in response to a Dreamcast fanboy's theories about inventive games being the cause of Dreamcast's failure, but it didn't get much attention, so here it is again.

If you think PlayStation hasn't done anything for game innovation, what about Rez, Irritating Stick, Frequency, Herdy Gerdy, Roll Away, PaRappa The Rapper, Incredible Crisis, Stretch Panic, Mad Maestro!, Mister Mosquito, Fantavision, No One Can Stop Mister Domino!, Vib Ribbon, Kinetica, Monster Rancher, Shadow Of Destiny, State Of Emergency, and maybe Sky Odyssey? Just to pick a few...

As a fan of quirky games, I picked PlayStation and PS2 precisely because the platform tends to get strange experimental games that other systems don't. If you want to see a truly uninspired lineup of FPS and sports games (with one interesting game), look at the Xbox...

Re:PlayStation innovation (1)

LazerImp (678727) | more than 11 years ago | (#6115603)

Rez was also available for Dreamcast, not just Playstation...

Re:PlayStation innovation (1)

mink (266117) | more than 11 years ago | (#6125200)

AFAIK it was first published on the DC, then ported.

Re:Pikmin Was Unique (1)

AvitarX (172628) | more than 11 years ago | (#6120281)

The systems that are inexespensive to delevope for will have the innovative quirky non blockbuster games.

Even if a GBA game costs 20.00 ea. for liscensing, The entire project start to finish takes less time and resources then designing one level in a game like Max Payne.

Here is a thing that pisses me off though.

Doom II costs 45.00 at the only place I found it for sale.

DoomII is nearly a decade old. And the engine was ported to the GBA by some Open Source hackers in almost no time. How can it possibly sell for as much as a brand new copy of Zelda?

Also defender of the crown Which was a fun, for a board 11 year old, but rather simple game a decade ago (I have no idea how old it actually is, it felt old then though). This game has been released for the GBA and costs 35.00.

How can publishers get away with charging so much money for games that probably have less then 10,000 dollors into them?

Re:Pikmin Was Unique (0)

zonker (1158) | more than 11 years ago | (#6121786)

just remember not to blame nintendo for that. blame the developer or publisher.

nintendo doesn't hold a gun to the head of the publisher and demand a defined msrp...

Re:Pikmin Was Unique (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6123247)

That's the way the business world works. Price is not determined by how much money went into the product, but how much they think they can get out of you.

I love it when ignoramuses write articles (4, Informative)

Masami Eiri (617825) | more than 11 years ago | (#6111705)

Or is it ignoramii?

Anyway, the guys fails to look at the fact that the concentration of original games is higher than that of the other systems.
He calls Mario Sunshine a crappier version of Mario 64... what the hell? Sunshine is a great game, and has a cool angle to it. I mean, c'mon, how many games do you see that have you spray the enemies with water and clean up sludge?
Wind Waker is another great game. I'm perplexed as to how he feels it is the same as OoT or MM... neither had sailing, the enemy AI was levels below WW, no droppable weapons, I could go on for a while.
Metroid Prime. So its a sequel. Its a brilliantly executed sequel. The only "fps" I'll ever play on a console.
As stated, Animal Crossing and Pikmin stand on their own.

Re:I love it when ignoramuses write articles (1)

Tom7 (102298) | more than 11 years ago | (#6114166)

> Or is it ignoramii?

It's ignoramuses, because in latin it wasn't a noun.

Re:I love it when ignoramuses write articles (1)

Zico (14255) | more than 11 years ago | (#6115920)

Even if it was, what is it with so many nerds that they think the "-us" gets turned into "-ii?" Where's this extra "i" coming from? Seriously, where on earth did they pick that up from and why is it repeated so much? It's fuckin' annoying. Ahh, I feel better. :)

Re:I love it when ignoramuses write articles (1)

Tom7 (102298) | more than 11 years ago | (#6116672)

Probably from Hawaii. ;)

Re:I love it when ignoramuses write articles (2, Insightful)

blixel (158224) | more than 11 years ago | (#6115415)

Metroid Prime. So its a sequel. Its a brilliantly executed sequel. The only "fps" I'll ever play on a console.

I think Metroid Prime has been the best game on the GC thus far. I played it all the way through almost non stop. Every time I put the game down it was all I could think about it so I'd have to go back to it and play some more. I was worried that the controls would feel akward being that it's first person; but the learning curve is small and once you get use to it, it plays very well.

Too bad there wasn't a deathmatch mode for Metroid Prime via that broadband adapter that the GC has.

Re:I love it when ignoramuses write articles (1)

Zico (14255) | more than 11 years ago | (#6115965)

A higher "concentration" of original games? C'mon now, using the GC's relative lack of games as a crutch which actually favors the GC is pretty ridiculous. Who cares which system has a higher concentration? Since it's simple to ignore games you don't want to play, the absolute number is the only one that matters.

Re:I love it when ignoramuses write articles (1)

PainKilleR-CE (597083) | more than 11 years ago | (#6116660)

Who cares which system has a higher concentration? Since it's simple to ignore games you don't want to play, the absolute number is the only one that matters.

Not that I really care all that much, but a higher concentration of quality games would mean that someone picking up a game at random would have a better chance of getting a good game.

That being said, who picks up $50 games at random? Maybe (and that's a big one) when they're in the bargain bin, but even then I'd rather know what I'm getting into before I put my money down.

Re:I love it when ignoramuses write articles (2, Funny)

Arkhan (240130) | more than 11 years ago | (#6117866)

>Or is it ignoramii?

No, that's the ancient Japanese art of folding paper into things nobody cares about.

Re:I love it when ignoramuses write articles (1)

Guppy06 (410832) | more than 11 years ago | (#6122417)

"I'm perplexed as to how he feels it is the same as OoT or MM"

Nobody's had the heart to tell the poor guy that what he's playing is the bonus disk.

No, no, the gold disk!

Ok (4, Interesting)

Apreche (239272) | more than 11 years ago | (#6111721)

How does a guy who writes an article like this get posted to slashdot? Seriously. Even my "Hopefully this will lead to more truly innovative and quality titles like Splinter Cell, Nascar: Dirt to Daytona and Burnout 2..."

If you think those games are innovative there is something seriously wrong with you. Of the three Burnout 2 is probably the most so, and only in it's awesome crashing action.

Nintendo makes the most innovative and fun video games in the world, they always have. So, slashdot, if you're going to continue posting quality stuff like this why not post some of the shit that I write when I'm bored and sleepy?

One of my favorite things... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6111776)

When an individual tells a corporation that they "owe him."

If that "essay" had been posted on /. (5, Insightful)

Snowspinner (627098) | more than 11 years ago | (#6111810)

It would be moderated down to -1 Flamebait instantly.

Its claims are absolutely ludicrous. Mario Sunshine has a worse camera than Mario 64? Wind Waker is identical to Ocarina? Games like Smash Brothers that made dramatic and substantial improvements on their originals aren't worth putting out? Sequels that expand on popular and fun ideas are bad? These are just stupid ideas, made no smarter by his "witty" retitling of games to be "Wind Wanker" and "Mario Squirt-Gun", or his claiming that Miyamoto would "wet himself" if a game contained real violence. (News flash: Miyamoto was a producer on Eternal Darkness, one of three games actually praised by the ranter)

God, you have no idea how depressed I am that the buzz story on Nintendo is "the company is doomed". The company is only doomed because of the arbitrary perception that it is doomed. Its consoles are profitable, its games reliably top "best of year lists", and it has a sizable installed fanbase. It's only assholes like this that are going to kill what is, in my opinion, the only company still reliably putting out games that remotely resemble the hobby I grew up on.

Hm. That "essay" appears to have pissed me off more than I thought. I guess I'll go find some more Shines until I calm down.

Re:If that "essay" had been posted on /. (1)

startled (144833) | more than 11 years ago | (#6112649)

If that "essay" had been posted on /. It would be moderated down to -1 Flamebait instantly.

Actually, anything criticizing Nintendo gets instantly modded down to -1 Troll [slashdot.org] , not Flamebait.

Anyway, back on topic, I agree-- the editorial was mostly off base, Nintendo's making quite a bit of money, and they haven't really promised anything they didn't deliver. Still, I'm a bit disappointed with my Gamecube. I bought Mario, Zelda, and Metroid, and the only one I bothered to play more than 10 hours was Metroid. They have stopped innovating, and while sure, they're cleaning up their formula-- the camera is better in Sunshine than 64-- they're not doing much better. While the rest of the state of the art continues to advance (very slowly, while most publishers put out shitty clones), Nintendo's great because they put out the same thing. Yeah, I'll probably enjoy Mario Cart Cubed. But it won't do anything new, aside from a new character in the back set.

(Posting this because I have karma to burn.)

Re:If that "essay" had been posted on /. (2, Interesting)

harborpirate (267124) | more than 11 years ago | (#6112697)

A lot of us are still pissed at the lackluster game linup for the N64. I got burned buying that console, and I doubt I will ever buy a Nintendo console again. If it hadn't been for the fact that I owned the Bond game during the time I was in college dorms, the system would have been a complete waste of my money.

Frankly, I've looked at the linup of games for the GC, and I'm underwhelmed. It seems like after a few interesting titles, such as Metroid and well... Metroid, there just isn't much there.

Maybe its a case of my interests not lining up with the games Nintendo has for their system. Let me put it another way: seems to me that if you aren't enamored with Nintendos franchises, Super Mario and Zelda, Smash Bros and Mariokart, then the Nintendo system just doesn't offer very much. Take a look at the third party games and try and tell me with a straight face that they aren't almost universally mediocre. And a very large percentage of those mediocre games are available on all the consoles.

I don't agree with the article in its entirety, but I do agree with the main point: Nintendo is pumping out franchise games for the GC, and if you don't buy into them, then the GC just isn't a worthwhile system.

I think the root issue is really that Nintendo has less releases for its console. And the number of great games for a system is really a percentage thing, with maybe 5% of games being "great games". If a system has 400 games in its lifetime, thats 20 great games. Nintendo always has a small library, and the "Nintendo seal of quality" does not seem to have any effect whatsoever on the "great game percentage".

Then again maybe I'm still jaded from the bitter taste of N64.

Re:If that "essay" had been posted on /. (1)

analog_line (465182) | more than 11 years ago | (#6113804)

It won't die no more than Apple has died after the thousands of times its death has been predicted by tech-journalists for years on end.

Re:If that "essay" had been posted on /. (1)

DJSpray (135538) | more than 11 years ago | (#6115565)

The main reason I have bothered to continue to support Nintendo's platform, and purchased a GameCube, and continue to play and track down old N64 games:

Nintendo's committment to putting out highly playable games... and Miyamoto's huge successes. (They haven't all been sparkling gems, but I can't think of any other game developer with such a string of successes).

Having played through 20 or 30 shines in Mario Sunshine, I can say that I won't bother to finish the game; it is good, the graphics and impressive, and some of the levels (for example, conquering the two-dimensional self-dividing manta rays) were quite fun, but overall it does not make itself sufficiently distinct from Mario 64, which is _still_ extremely playable by comparison. (My 8-year-old son concurs).

I played Zelda: the Wind Waker and finished it; the game has a few playability flaws and is a bit short, but I still rate it quite highly. The graphics are truly impressive and fluid. I've played Pikmin up to the last two ship parts; I may not finish. The Nintendo platforms are the ones that gave us Paper Mario, a great game that was also worth playing all the way to the end, and a lot of interesting oddities for the more adventurous: Rocket Robot on Wheels, Space Station Silicon Valley, Conker's Bad Fur Day (a poor seller, but it has its points, if you like poop jokes), Kirby: The Crystal Shards, the Smash Brothers games, and a lot of others that I've enjoyed and my 8-year-old son has enjoyed. (No, he doesn't get to play Conker).

It's a real testimony to the staying power of the Nintendo games that with other platforms available, other games available, and the GameCube sitting next to the N64, we still pop in Mario 64 and Kirby because they are fun to play. Really, what else is there?

Re:If that "essay" had been posted on /. (1)

DJSpray (135538) | more than 11 years ago | (#6115670)

Wow, I read the essay and I'm quite stunned: in the first paragraph he's talking about "a very small Japanese gentleman" (well, yeah, a lot of Asians are somewhat smaller than us burly Americans; get over it...) with his hair cut "like a homosexual mushroom" (what the hell does that mean? You can identify gays by their haircuts?)

Then his attack on Miyamoto ("a real gun would have made Miyamoto pee in his pants from fear"). The use of the phrases "sucks," "Mario Kart: Double Ass." "Nintendo's two faced B.S."

It's also clear that he doesn't have the foggiest notion of what goes into software development; he thinks Mario Sunshine should have been released for the N64 (trying to model those water mechanics with that processor? please...) and keeps insisting that the sequels are just "re-skinned" N64 games. Game development doesn't quite work that way. I'd be surprised if a single texture, model, or line of code was actually reusable as-is.

I can't believe I've wasted so long reading this inflammatory, uninformed piece.

Re:If that "essay" had been posted on /. (1)

scot4875 (542869) | more than 11 years ago | (#6118987)

The most frustrating thing is that the kind of person who writes things like this editorial will spew off crap like that, and then turn around and say "OMG, Doom 3 looks so awesome!" with a straight face.

Don't get me wrong, Doom 3 does look great, but put into context with the rest of that rant, the writer looks like a moron. (see his comments about Splinter Cell and some racing games near the bottom of the editorial) People like this can't see the irony of their prejudices, and won't listen to reason. It's not worth wasting time on them.

--Jeremy

Re:If that "essay" had been posted on /. (1)

Trystero (48956) | more than 11 years ago | (#6118104)

Indeed. If Slashdot has lowered itself to accepting stories from immature twits, I'm sure I can come up with some dandy essays written by petulant 5-year-olds denied their cookies at snacktime. In fact, the scribblngs of your average 5-year-old may be more edifying than what this guy puked out.

Grow up. The Gamecube is a fine system with stellar games.

Re:If that "essay" had been posted on /. (1)

Zixia (534893) | more than 11 years ago | (#6131456)

Mario Sunshine has a worse camera than Mario 64?

I think so.

When I have played SMS, there are too many times when Mario is obscured by an object and the camera doesn't compensate, so I can't see what I am doing. There are times when the camera moves around so that you can see what is approaching, like on the path up to the windmill, but these times are so rare that they catch me off guard and it disorientates me. This can also happen mid-jump, which can cause me to miss the landing. In contrast, I never had a problem when the camera reorientated in Mario 64.

Also, when the focus shifts from Mario to an event happening, like some fruit falling out of the pipeline, the camera zoom returns to the default setting, which can get irritating, because I prefer the camera to be a little further back. Why is this zoom setting not stored somewhere so that when the focus shifts from Mario and back again I don't have to move the camera?

Yes, I can move the camera, and more so than in Mario 64. It's just a shame that I have to move it so much. I never really noticed the camera in Mario 64, except to marvel that it was so well implemented that I almost never thought about it while in general gamplay. I can tell you that I am thinking about the camera and how it is interrupting my usually fluid gameplay in SMS far too much.

Re:If that "essay" had been posted on /. (1)

Snowspinner (627098) | more than 11 years ago | (#6136713)

That's really odd. I found, in both M64 and Ocarina of Time that the limited camera control, particularly the fact that you couldn't move the camera on the fly, was frequently a problem. The C-Stick camera on Wind Waker and Sunshine was vastly more playable for me, with the exception of that one level in the amusement park where it was impossible to get a close-up view because of the wall. I always felt in total control of the camera, and got quite good at manipulating the camera while I moved and did other things. /shrug.

No accounting for taste.

Far from doom.. (4, Interesting)

Mean_Nishka (543399) | more than 11 years ago | (#6111927)

True, they won't get doom on the Gamecube, but Nintendo is far from its demise. Let's not forget that Nintendo played second fiddle to Sony PS1 for the life of the n64 console.

Frankly, I think Nintendo is the only innovative game maker left in business today. We had a lengthy discussion on /. the other day on this very topic.. Nintendo, time and again, is the innovator in this industry. As we've seen with Apple (the innovator in the PC industry) they've carved out quite a profitable niche in the marketplace, which is where Nintendo may find itself.

Nintendo, like Apple, has some very innovative games, does things nobody else does, but is later copied by everyone else in the industry :). I love my Xbox by and large it's generic crap that I'm playing on it :). The games look great, but I have yet to find a game that immerses me like the Nintendo titles.

On the Gamecube alone, you have great first party titles like Pikmin, Animal Crossing, Zelda, Mario Sunshine, etc. etc. Nintendo knows how to make a great video game, and the Gamecube is by far the best canvas they've ever had to express their innovative approach to video games.

All one needs to do is just play Zelda Wind Waker for an hour or two to see just how amazing these people are. It's just an astounding game.

I don't think we need to waste another moment (3, Insightful)

Kris_J (10111) | more than 11 years ago | (#6111978)

Do we really care about the opinions of someone who has the phrase "with his hair cut like a homosexual mushroom" in the opening paragraph?

Re:I don't think we need to waste another moment (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6114736)

Agreed. I was about to write the same thing. After I got to the "Link: Wind Wanker" I stopped reading. Is the author in 6th grade?

Wrong target of attack (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6111982)

We have seen some innovation, and also a lot of evolution. Pikmin, Metroid and Animal Crossing are very innovative, whereas Mario Sunshine and Zelda are both improvements and refinements on the older installments. One should ask what Sony and Microsoft have offered in the way of innovation...

I am not sure where you can fault Nintendo in terms of game design - and Nintendo have never really swamped the market with titles, instead releasing only one or two a year. From the few we have received it is clear that first party offerings are up to scratch.

A better (and valid) attack would be on third party support. Nintendo is very much a first (and second) party platform, which in many ways limits the appeal of their system.

Nintendo is fine ... for children (1, Flamebait)

Traderdot (677425) | more than 11 years ago | (#6112035)

Nintendo has always focused on the children's market. This was the correct strategy when they first started with the NES because very few adults played video games. It was children who were most able to immerse themselves in Super Mario, Contra, etc. and children propelled the buying of consoles, games, etc. Nintendo designed graphics have always been cartoonish and cute rather than hard edged and realistic. The most recent Nintendo mega-hit remains the Pokemon craze, something almost exclusively targeted at children.

However, it's 20 years later and those kids have grown up. A large percentage of gamers now are not children, but young adults. They want harder edged, "cooler" games. Halo, Grand Theft Auto, etc. Nintendo has either failed to grasp that or out of fear of alienating their kid-friendly fan base, have ceded that territory to Sony and Microsoft.

The question now is whether Nintendo has the right strategy. Is there enough room for a kid-focused gaming console or will adults simply buy a PS2 for their children because then there'll be games that they can enjoy as well?

Re:Nintendo is fine ... for children (1)

Snowspinner (627098) | more than 11 years ago | (#6112302)

See, I think that the people who grew up on Super Mario and are still gamers are, in a lot of cases, still interested in Mario. It's the next generation, currently in high school and middle school, who have never played the original Zelda that have no interest in Nintendo titles. And I don't think it's edginess that sells. Lord knows FF7 wasn't edgy.

I think it's a distinctly different style of game that sells - not in terms of content, but in terms of what's emphasized in design. I don't think a lot of current game designers obsess substatially over interface, or over innovation. That's not essentially criticism of current game design... but it's not my thing.

Re:Nintendo is fine ... for children (1)

PainKilleR-CE (597083) | more than 11 years ago | (#6114321)

See, I think that the people who grew up on Super Mario and are still gamers are, in a lot of cases, still interested in Mario.

I grew up on SMB (and SMB2, SMB3), and I'm definitely not interested in Mario. OTOH, I am interested in Zelda and Metroid, which always seemed to me to be at least a little higher up the evolutionary ladder than SMB anyway.

It's the next generation, currently in high school and middle school, who have never played the original Zelda that have no interest in Nintendo titles. And I don't think it's edginess that sells. Lord knows FF7 wasn't edgy

I wouldn't be so sure of that. My girlfriend's brother (about 8 yrs old) has a GameCube and a couple of different GameBoys (GB Color, GBA, GBA SP), and he definitely seems interested in the Mario stuff, and Zelda, and Metroid (plus the Pokemon stuff and a few other things). As for FF7, though it sold to many people that never played FF before, I still remember playing FF1 on the NES, and have bought every FF title available on the PS1/2. Edgy? Well, it was certainly different from what most people had seen before. Japanese rpgs were never selling like that in the US before.

I think what people miss is why a game really does well. GTA might be violent, and a lot of people might buy it for that reason, but it really wouldn't get much play if that was all it had. The game offers a lot more freedom than most people are used to seeing in a video game. Halo is just a really strong modern-day FPS, which is something that a console never really had before (though Red Faction may count as well, and I've heard the N64 had a couple). If Halo had been released on the PC at the same time as the XBox, MS probably would've sold a lot fewer XBoxes.

Currently I own a DreamCast, PS2, and XBox. I have about 10-20 titles for each (not counting the PS1 titles), and most of those titles are games that I enjoy a great deal. That's not going to prevent me from picking up a GameCube soon, though, because I can already see at least a half-dozen GC titles that I'd like to play. To me, that's enough to justify a $150 console, especially since I can get one of those titles free with the console, and already bought one of the titles for $20 (Metroid was on clearance at one of the local Blockbuster Videos, and yes, it was a new, not pre-rented game). Considering that I used to buy a video card for my PC every 6 months (only reason I don't now is because it's a waste of time & money because the games aren't keeping up), it's actually a lot cheaper to buy a console every once in a while (close to every 6 months, but not quite that often), and more games (with less bugs).

Re:Nintendo is fine ... for children (1)

GR1NCH (671035) | more than 11 years ago | (#6112366)

Is it just me, or does it piss you off when people call the GameCube childish?

First off, there are plenty of games out for Gamecube that are NOT childish, and that children should not be playing (BMX XXX, BloodRayne, Eternal Darkness, Mortal Kombat, Resident Evil). And Secondly, a game does not need to have blood, guts, and nudity to be fun for adults to play. I'm sorry but I'd rather play Metroid Prime than any of the games listed above any day. If you think that a game is no good because it isn't violent and contains no sexual content, then YOU need to grow up.

In my opinion Nintedo is putting out the best and most innovative games on the market for the gamecube and we still have plenty to look forward to (including an awesome looking revision of mario kart).

So Doom3 isn't coming out for the Gamecube... BIG DEAL! I think it goes without question that any game that is released for both consoles and PC, I will play on my PC instead. ESPECIALLY if that game is likely to have a linux port. I'd much rather play Doom3 in 1600x1200 with all the great new features of DX9 than on my tv in low res with a graphics card that is comparible to the owned two years ago.

Finally I'm gonna go a little off topic here and tell all the XBox fanboys to get off their Halo high-horse. Face the facts, if Halo was released on the computer instead of XBox it would have been totally crushed by good FPS's like Half-Life, Quake3, and Unreal Tournamenet 2003. The game is not at all innovative unless you call bringing an FPS to the TV screen innovative. Not to mention the fact that I think I'll pass on paying a monthly fee for XBox Live! and stick to playing my FPS's for free on the internet.

Yeah its a long post, but I'm sure a lot more thought went into it than the article it comments on.

Re:Nintendo is fine ... for children (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6112439)

>>>>First off, there are plenty of games out for Gamecube that are NOT childish, and that children should not be playing (BMX XXX, BloodRayne, Eternal Darkness, Mortal Kombat, Resident Evil). And Secondly, a game does not need to have blood, guts, and nudity to be fun for adults to play. I'm sorry but I'd rather play Metroid Prime than any of the games listed above any day. If you think that a game is no good because it isn't violent and contains no sexual content, then YOU need to grow up.

It's about time somebody says (and notices) that. T&A or blood does not make an instant hit. It's how fun it is to play. Then play again. Then put down for a year (or 10) and then play it again. Even the old Legend of Zelda is still fun to play.

It also seems that damn near every movie relies on obligatory sex scenes to somehow captivate the audience. My 10 year old sis wanted to watch M2 with me, but thanks to that nice sex-rave scene, I wont. I'm not a prude by any standards, but does there have to be soo many obligatory sex scenes? If they actually added something to the show, fine.

>>>>In my opinion Nintedo is putting out the best and most innovative games on the market for the gamecube and we still have plenty to look forward to (including an awesome looking revision of mario kart).

Nintendo seems to have more signal than noise. They also have some strange stuff, which might be a big hit.

>>>>So Doom3 isn't coming out for the Gamecube... BIG DEAL!

Damn straight. Like it wont be on computer......

>>>>I think it goes without question that any game that is released for both consoles and PC, I will play on my PC instead. ESPECIALLY if that game is likely to have a linux port. I'd much rather play Doom3 in 1600x1200 with all the great new features of DX9 than on my tv in low res with a graphics card that is comparible to the owned two years ago.

>>>>Finally I'm gonna go a little off topic here and tell all the XBox fanboys to get off their Halo high-horse. Face the facts, if Halo was released on the computer instead of XBox it would have been totally crushed by good FPS's like Half-Life, Quake3, and Unreal Tournamenet 2003.

UT2k3 in my opinion... Sucks. They took out he cool thing from UT (Assault) and put in some awful attack football shit. I've played better football mods (on much better maps) on GLquake. Bigger maps arent always better. A simple rectangular map with decent texturing would have went faaar with that mod style. After all, who wants to run for 2 minutes and get fragged by 3 bots cross-firing (and then run 2 more minutes from spawn)???

>>>>The game is not at all innovative unless you call bringing an FPS to the TV screen innovative. Not to mention the fact that I think I'll pass on paying a monthly fee for XBox Live! and stick to playing my FPS's for free on the internet.

Agreed. As long as you play on friends servers. Hopefully local servers, so you can trash the cheater ;-)

Re:Nintendo is fine ... for children (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6114327)

Halo was released on the PC before Xbox was even a twinkle in Bill Gates' eye. And it was massively passed over for more innovative games such as Halo, UT, and Quake III.

Re:Nintendo is fine ... for children (0)

zonker (1158) | more than 11 years ago | (#6121826)

such is due to pubescence. kids who want to act older and don't want to look like they are playing with toys like their little brothers and sisters.

for example, i'm betting lots of teenagers look at the movie 'finding nemo' and say it is a kids movie. however, it is a family movie. nintendo, like pixar, is in the business of making products that appeal and are appropriate to a wide range of ages. sometimes that makes them seem like 'kiddy companies' to those that are so concerned about their image, worried that they'll look like they are having fun, like a grown man playing with star wars action figures.

interestingly, a grown man playing with a lego mindstorms set is called an engineer, in some circles.

Re:Nintendo is fine ... for children (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6118044)

Point #1: Nintendo does not focus solely on children. For the most part, they make games that everyone can enjoy, without excluding anyone (except for elitists who enjoy excluding themselves from certain forms of entertainment because of superficial "image concerns" or whatever).

Point #2: Nintendo does not have to "grow" with its initial audience. If this were a valid argument, the Children's Television Workshop would have stopped producing Sesame Street and would be making pornos right now.

Re:Nintendo is fine ... for children (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6125317)

From what I remember of the NES era (and the Atari era) there were lots of adults playing video games. Anyoneone who believes otherwise is delusional or so young they cant comprehend such a fact.

Well everyone is entitled to their own opinion... (3, Interesting)

nekoes (613370) | more than 11 years ago | (#6112536)

I guess.

This guy just seemed utterly deranged over Nintendo. Maybe it's just the grass is always greener on the other side, but I'm currently an owner of both the Xbox and PS2 consoles, and I have to say that both software lineups, put together, for both consoles, have been depressingly lackluster. I can count on one hand the games worth owning for these two systems. However when I think of the GC, I've got like 10 or 11 games all in my mind.

Could just be the grass is always greener. But it could also just be that both these consoles are another example of quantity over quality.

Sure, there's games like ICO and Halo that make the respective systems sort of worth owning. The FFX and Suikoden 3 rpgs for PS2 weren't that bad, along with Kingdom Hearts. I can't think too far beyond those as far as games I would play go. And all of the Xbox titles have been ports of PC games, or currently have their titles being ported to PC. Everytime I'm out looking for a decent Xbox game to pick up, I've generally already got it for PC, or it's coming out for PC, so why spend so much money on a gimped product?

(gimped being no online play, not editable, etc)

I can't really come up with anything else to either go against or with parts of his point, I know the GC games I've seen have been extremely good, and I'm on the verge of picking a system up up (they are super cheap now too..)

Pikmin looked good, Mario Sunshine didn't seem all that bad... all of Nintendo's sequals are top notch (Zelda, Mario, SSMB, Metroid) and the just announced games like Giftpia and Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles are looking spectacular.

I can't say that I agree with schotty when he says that more games is better and it's sad that pretty much every other platform has more, especially since there are so few out on both Xbox and PS2 that are really worth owning.

That, to me, is sad.

And I guess I'm also wondering how this guy's article is worthy /. ... I guess it makes good conversation for an otherwise slow moving news pool. :P

Microsoft does WHAT? (1)

chaddarland (541271) | more than 11 years ago | (#6112655)

Here's the most outrageous quote in the whole mess:

"It seems like the only difference between Nintendo and the other consoles is that Nintendo is apt to lie about their intentions, whereas Sony and Microsoft give you what you want and lots of it."

Re:Microsoft does WHAT? (1)

The Briguy (612887) | more than 11 years ago | (#6113240)

Not just microsoft. who was it who said that playing thier console would be "just like jacking into the matrix"? *cough*Sony*cough*

Not the best of articles, but still... (1)

Roshin (637756) | more than 11 years ago | (#6112716)

Well, I agree that it wasn't the best of articles. The childish comments (Wind Wanker) hurt it more than anything else. Still, there are some valid points in there. Me, I have grown up with Nintendo and gone through the Famicom, the Super Famicom, the N64, the Cube and a handful of GameBoy's. It's difficult to pinpoint, but despite the lovely visuals of the current Nintendo titles, there is something missing. Something that was there before, when Nintendo was the unchallenged king of the videogame world, but started to fade away when the competition got serious. I find it difficult to really get involved with their games these days. Mario Sunshine bored me within hours. I was stunned by the looks of Zelda, but lost interest after a couple of days. On the Super Famicom, I was obsessed with Mario and Zelda (and many others), looking for secrets, discussing the games with friends, etc. There is just something lukewarm and uninspired with the current (and recent) titles. Maybe Miyamoto-san is being spread too thin, I don't know, but something is missing and I want it back. BTW, it is pointless to stick your tongue out at the competition (Sony, Microsoft) and pretend that all they produce is crap. The point is that their products sell and Nintendo have been back-pedalling ever since Sony got serious about videogames. Sony are about too enter the handheld market and we all know that Microsoft wont be far behind. They will tear marketshare chunks out of the GameBoy and Nintendo will be on the retreat once again, while stubbornly claiming that everything is fine and business is great... Something better change.

Re:Not the best of articles, but still... (1)

Daetrin (576516) | more than 11 years ago | (#6112981)

I somewhat agree with you, however it's true of all consoles. It might be the whole loss of childhood innocence type thing, the nostalgia value placed on old games. Or maybe Nintendo has lost it's touch, but if so, it's a touch that Sony and Microsoft don't have either. Or maybe games have gotten too complex, the most addictive games are always things like Tetris after all. Or maybe it's just the fact that now that i'm an adult and have a job i don't have the ability to immerse myself in games the same way as i used to. If i could sit around playing games all day like i used to maybe that feeling would come back.

Anyone want to donate a few million dollars to me so i can be independently wealthy and test that hypothesis out? :)

Re:Not the best of articles, but still... (1)

LazerImp (678727) | more than 11 years ago | (#6115757)

Yeah, I think there was some sort of 'magical spark' all of Nintendo's games used to have that just generally aren't there today. Wind Waker, Sunshine, Metroid, etc. are all great games, there's just that magic missing. And I know Nintendo's still capable of it, it is definitely there in Wario Ware.

Re:Not the best of articles, but still... (1)

Shanoyu (975) | more than 11 years ago | (#6126639)

Indeed, it seems they have chosen to live off the pokemon license.

I agree (1)

moankey (142715) | more than 11 years ago | (#6112855)

While the guy can tone down the anger I agree with him.
I have the Cube and so far am highly disappointed with lack of online support and games.
The only reason I havent given mine away or sold it is that another Star Wars game is slated for release only on GameCube, which is one reason I even have the GameCube, Rogue Squadron. Other than that the thing is a dud.

Re:I agree (1)

PeeweeJD (623974) | more than 11 years ago | (#6113693)

I _mostly_ agree as well. I had an N64 instead of a PS1. My brother had a PS1 and used to tell me about how many games he had for his PS1 vs my N64. Sure, he had more games to choose from, but I believe a higher percentage of N64 games were high quality in comparison to PS1's library.

I bought a Cube instead of a PS2 or Xbox because of this. I was frustrated the first year with a lack of a Mario title, but hung in there. The breaking point for me was when I looked a xmas 2002 lineup and saw a bunch of crap mostly (with the exception of Metroid and Star Fox). I looked at PS2 and saw Vice City, SOCOM, online play and a plethora of other games. I looked at Xbox and saw Mechassault, Unreal Champ, Splinter Cell, Xbox Live (and knew Halo2 would be coming soon).

I bought an Xbox last fall and now have lot's of Xbox games. Don't get me wrong, I still play the cube, but good games are few and far bwetween.

Re:I agree (1)

Baron_911 (664953) | more than 11 years ago | (#6114628)

Although I don't agree that the GameCube doesn't have the software (quite a few GameCube games are among my favorites), I completely agree that the GameCube's downfall is Online support. From the look of the console industry, online console games are about to EXPLODE. Sony got there killer app (SOCOM), XBox Live has quite the library now, with a ton of titles on the way, and GameCube has.... Phantasy Star? The future of these consoles is online. Sony and Micro realized this, and planned accordingly, but Nintendo seems to be ignoring this all to important phenomina. I'm not saying that every game has to be online, but there has to be something. My advice to them would have been 'fight with all your might for Resident Evil Online'. I have a good feeling about this one, and GameCube already had Resident Evil exclusivness. It would at least have gotten people to go out and buy the modem!

On a side note: Why in the name of all things holy in the universe does Soul Caliber 2 not have online support. Bring fighting games into this millinium PLEASE!!!

Re:I agree (1)

clu76 (620823) | more than 11 years ago | (#6114992)

The future of these consoles is online.

I agree. Online capabilities will play a vital role of consoles in the future. But that will be then, not now. Online gaming has a lot of growing up to do. When Nintendo does go online, they will have the advantage to avoid the mistakes their competitors are making now. Nintendo has the potential to offer the best online experience. They have, I believe, the largest and most popular (historically speaking) franchise of characters and fantasy worlds in the video game industry. I imagine it could be the online equivalent of Disney World.

Indeed (1)

August_zero (654282) | more than 11 years ago | (#6120487)

Last year, when X-box live was released, I was floored not so much by Microsoft's steps towards an online component, but rather by the lack of a plan by Nintendo and Sony. I played a lot of x-box live for that first month, and now, 7 months later I have not purchased a single game that uses it? Why? because most of it is crap. The "Online content" prmoised by MS has mostly boiled down to one level or so every 3 months.

What looked like Nitendo's mistake may not have been such a grave error after all. Console online gaming is still primitive, in the same way that CD-drives were primitive when Sega CD was first released. Developers don't really implement it in any way that improves the software. I think that the next generation (PS3, X-Box2, game-hypercube) will see better use of online play and that will be when Nintendo and Sony make their move.

Re:I agree (1)

scot4875 (542869) | more than 11 years ago | (#6119165)

If Rogue Squadron is the only game you think is worth owning for the 'Cube, then the 'Cube isn't the console you should own. Period.

Rogue Squadron isn't even that great a game (yes, I own it) other than their (amazingly well done) use of the Star Wars license.

If you don't think that Metroid Prime, Zelda:Wind Waker, Eternal Darkness, Pikmin, Animal Crossing, RE0/1, or any of the other great titles for the system are worth owning, then just get a different system. If you only own the system so that you can play Star Wars on it, then quit bitching that there aren't more games that you like.

And I don't know why you'd be disappointed with their lack of online support, given that it didn't ship with online capabilities, and Nintendo has publicly stated that they don't think on-line games are financially feasible right now. I mean, that's almost like saying "I'm disappointed with their lack of DVD playing capability." The system was never even designed with that in mind in the first place, nor has it *ever* been a selling point pushed by Nintendo.

Now, if your complaint was that there were few games that made more than trivial use of the GBA-GCN link feature, then I'd agree with you. Although it's looking like the games are coming really soon, it's taken far longer than it should have.

--Jeremy

Re:I agree (0)

zonker (1158) | more than 11 years ago | (#6121812)

i actually agree w/ nintendo for their 'wait and see' approach to online gaming. if microsoft were to charge customers what it really cost for their network, and then a little more for profit, it would likely be prohibitively expensive for most gamers. keep in mind, most households don't have broadband (which is the only choice for xbox, though i'd say it was probably a good one for the most part).

i'm betting we'll hear sometime in the future the real numbers as to how much ms is losing on their xbox division (per system), as well as their xbox live division (per online subscriber). i'll bet they never make a dime off it. not because it isn't popular, but because they are choosing to sell it at such a loss that they'll never recoup their costs just for the sake of securing a position in the gaming industry. perhaps to better their chances at hitting a #1 selling console for xbox2. who knows, i may be way off.

keep in mind, sony isn't taking that much of a different approach to online than nintendo. they've not launched a 'ps2 live' like service. they are telling 3rd parties they are on their own as to what they want to do with online titles. i'm not sure why people forget that fact... that is not to even mention sega's seganet et al.

What's Nintendo? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6112944)

butter

Failing on all fronts (2, Insightful)

Schiraman (452529) | more than 11 years ago | (#6113101)

Despite his childishness the guy has a point; Nintendo really aren't delivering on their promises for innovation and, more than that, they aren't producing solid sequels either. With the rarity of third party games and a total lack of support for online gaming its difficult to see anything the Gamecube has done right.

Don't get me wrong; I own a Gamecube and I like a lot of Nintendo games. I own a SNES and an N64 as well. He's right that Mario Sunshine is a weak re-tread of Mario 64 though - its a fun game in its own right but it lacks the innovation, imagination and sheer fun of Mario 64. I've heard that Sunshine is based on re-worked N64DD code and I think that makes a lot of sense - its basically a stop-gap rather than a true sequel. The Wind Waker suffers from similar flaws; its got an innovative graphical style but beneath that it plays like Ocarina of Time with a boat tacked on - much like the tacked-on squirt-gun in Mario Sunshine. Given how clunky the water-based combat is and how dull the treasure-seeking is, its hard to see what the sailing really adds to the game. At its core The Wind Waker is about puzzle dungeons, just like any Zelda game, but its dungeons are less interesting and much easier than those we've seen before and it doesn't really add anything new to the mix. Even the titular 'Wind Waker' is essentially just the Ocarina of Time by a new name.

I think ultimately Nintendo's problem is this: innovation is its major selling point. Sony has a massive catalogue of games, including many fantastic new ideas and many great sequels and Microsoft have enough money to buy up anything that Sony overlooks - so if Nintendo wants to compete it needs not just a few good games, but some really unmissible ones. Currently the Gamecube is struggling to outdo the N64; how can it hope to compete with next-generation offerings?

Re:Failing on all fronts (1)

FailingRorschach (673451) | more than 11 years ago | (#6113485)

Repost the story with this reply as the headline.

Re:Failing on all fronts (1)

FailingRorschach (673451) | more than 11 years ago | (#6113496)

Link not headline?

What do you consider innovative? (2, Insightful)

clu76 (620823) | more than 11 years ago | (#6113973)

Nintendo is taking a beating for not being innovative, from many different sources. If they aren't, then who is? Where do you see the innovation happening in today's video game industry?

Just another troll (2, Informative)

matlokheed (602233) | more than 11 years ago | (#6114152)

Really. If you wanted to see this editorial it probably would've been just as easy to go to one of the Gamecube boards on gamefaqs (www.gamefaqs.com). Then just look for a "Nintendo sucks" topic and you're all set. The only thing that makes this significant is because this is an editorial on Nintendojo which has always been a fairly decent source for Nintendo news.

I won't even bother picking apart the article. That's already been done before and with he proves a point with his confused ramblings. To paraphrase Fry from Futurama, "People don't want innovative. They want the same thing over and over and over." Look at Nintendo's lineup.

Mario Sunshine, Super Smash Bros Melee, Zelda: Wind Waker, and Luigi's Mansion have been the high selling games for the system. While each has innovation on its own, they each have flaws and ultimately are updates (though possibly big ones) to earlier games (except Luigi which is just too short). Pikmin, Animal Crossing, Eternal Darkness, the games with the unusual and innovative twists simply don't sell well.

It's a shame, but that's how things are. The person who wrote that editorial is clearly cranky and clueless (which Xbox title is the innovative one? was it the generic FPS Halo or the non-generic but barely a game DOA Extreme Beach Volleyball?), but everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Re:Just another troll (2, Interesting)

ComputerDave78 (656435) | more than 11 years ago | (#6115066)

Waa, waa! Get over what they said, I've got a GameCube and I love it; Metroid Prime kicked my ass the first couple of times I played it! I guess I can't compare my experience directly to his, I never had a N64; I don't think I'd be as disenchanted as he is anyhow.

So they said they would be innovative, who's definition of innovative are we going by? His? Mine? Nintendo's? Does it matter? They said one thing, they did another; isn't that how it's always worked?

Re:Just another troll (2, Insightful)

PainKilleR-CE (597083) | more than 11 years ago | (#6116954)

I guess I can't compare my experience directly to his, I never had a N64; I don't think I'd be as disenchanted as he is anyhow.

I think that may be why the GC looks so good to me, as well. Hell, I didn't even have an SNES, I went straight from NES to Turbo Grafx-16 and the Genesis, and then took a few years away from console gaming (mostly my teenage years) to come back for the PS1 when FFVII came out (though I played quite a bit of Killer Instinct and Mario Kart on my roommate's SNES in college).

-1 Flamebait (2, Interesting)

Rudy Rodarte (597418) | more than 11 years ago | (#6114205)

If you don't like it, don't buy it. I think that would send the strongest message to the folks at Nintendo.
I am perfectly happy with the gamecube, and the current library. Sure, I'd like to see GTA on the GC, since I'll never buy a PS2(Sorry, buying a house. Gotta get ready for the assault on my wallet.) But, there are some great games coming up. I won't list them all here. Just visit Game Spot or ign.com to see the excellent upcoming games.

GameCube Has Many High Quality Titles (2, Insightful)

syr (647840) | more than 11 years ago | (#6117214)

Over at GameTab.com [gametab.com] we compile reviews for all platforms from all over the web. Just the other day we finished our "Game Charts" script which lets you search for games based on average reviewer rating on websites, price, platform and release date.

What is interesting is analyzing all of the data concerning quality titles the individual console makers have produced. Here [gametab.com] is the page listing the top GC games (those with greater than 85% average reviews). As you can see Nintendo has released (including third party titles) 16 titles which have been very well received by the reviewing wing of the games industry. In contrast the PC industry released 27 games with similar press fanfare, the PS2 released 28 games, and the XBox 18.

The GameCube has the smallest number of quality titles but if you factor in GameboyAdvance games the total rises to 29. And indeed if you are buying a GC soon it will come with the GameBoy TV adapter so you can play all your Nintendo games for $150 for the unit. The GameCube has always been cheaper than the other systems and that is a major selling point for it.

If you look at the top rated games [gametab.com] you'll see 3 GameCube games in the top 10. The GameCube is producing very high quality games but it is getting hurt because third party developers are not supporting it as well (they create and optimize the game for the PS2 and then release that game for the XBox/GC hardware which is much more powerful). Also, the PS2/PC controls the highly acclaimed GTA series which has a solid hold on the Top 10 games.

I'm not saying that Nintendo is not to blame for many of the woes felt by GC owners. I'm just saying it is possibly the best console to own (it's cheap and has a number of stellar 1st party titles not available elsewhere). Nintendo and Microsoft might have lost to Sony in this battle, but Nintendo is still very aggressive in their future plans and they have a stranglehold on the portable gaming market. The next round of consoles will be very interesting and with exclusivity contracts from the likes of RockStar Games (GTA) and Square (Final Fantasy) being expired soon or renegotiated frequently it is possible that Nintendo's next console will be able to compete on the same level as the PS3 and XBOX2.

In the meantime I will be playing Animal Crossing, Metroid Prime and Wind Waker. And (unfortunately) waiting for Mario Kart, F-zero, etc. for the GameCube.

My biggest beef with Nintendo is that it took nearly 2 or more years to get many of their 1st party sequels made. There's no real excuse for any of that. They should have been launch titles or at least released in 2002.

Some good points... (2, Insightful)

gamgee5273 (410326) | more than 11 years ago | (#6118363)

...and really weak execution. I think the GC is the bet of the most recent consoles (including the DC). It's a powerful little powerhouse that isn't trying to be anything other than a game console. Truly, I think we've seen a lot of innovative work from Nintendo for the GC.

1. Pikmin is beautiful, and a wonderful way to pass the time when home sick from work.

2. Animal Crossing, while looking like an N64 game, really takes the whole "Sims" thing to a new level.

3. Metroid Prime is the tighest FPS I've ever played, and I've played them since Pathways into Darkness [earthlink.net] .

4. And, to top all of them off, The Wind Waker is just an amazing game and is close to perfect. Yes, it does play like Ocarina, but it is Ocarina's sequel - I should hope it feels similar, at least.

I could go on: Eternal Darkness, Lost Kingdoms, Lost Kingoms II, oh, and while it made its first home on the Japanese DC, the great Ikagura cannot be overlooked.

And what do we GC'ers have to look forward to? Pikmin 2, F-Zero GX, Resident Evil 4, Viewtiful Joe, and Giftpia, just to name a few. When one considers that the typical console owner buys, tops, four or five titles for the console, I think the GC is in great shape (lord knows I own a small fortune's worth).

I just don't think the argument is fully with merit. If this were English 101 I would have to make him redo the essay. If this were a /. post I would have to mod him down -1 Troll.

Re:Some good points... (1)

gamgee5273 (410326) | more than 11 years ago | (#6120296)

Damn...I forgot Super Monkey Ball (not necessarily SMB 2, though - that one's hard beyond belief). Now there's a great party game, especially the Monkey Fight!

Re:Some good points... (1)

edwdig (47888) | more than 11 years ago | (#6121062)

When one considers that the typical console owner buys, tops, four or five titles for the console, I think the GC is in great shape (lord knows I own a small fortune's worth).

Slashdot people seem to have this idea that console owners only buy a few games. Look around the web for sales data. The GameCube is selling an average of 12 games per console sold, and the Xbox is averaging about 10.

PS2 numbers are probably lower as a very high portion of the Japanese sales (at least early on) were solely for use as a DVD player, as at the time of the PS2's launch, it was significantly cheaper than most DVD players in Japan.

Re:Some good points... (1)

gamgee5273 (410326) | more than 11 years ago | (#6122917)

Those stats are taken from the last generation of consoles, and sales data for current consoles can be misleading. When you think of the last gen colsoles you can see the truth in that data: my wife's best friend has a PSone and two games (she has since bought a PS2, primarily for DVDs, and a third PSone game); my best friend has an N64 and owns three games; I own exactly one game for my TurboGrafx 16 (okay, not really last gen, but you get the point).

You really can't tell what the trends are until the console is EOL'd. For all we know, there are thousands who bought a GC just for Wind Waker and Metroid Prime and they will never buy another game for it. Of course, it is also my contention that there are tens of thousands who bought an Xbox just for Halo and are now using it as a boat anchor.

Good point but.... (1)

JGag21 (678945) | more than 11 years ago | (#6118863)

I can see the author's points but I'm kind of in the middle of the road on this subject. You have to admit that while some of these sequels are rehashes of N64 games, they still are a lot of fun. Also, I think Nintendo has their innovation focused on the wrong thing. They're pushing the whole Gamecube-GBA link, which is cool, just not very practical. How man people can really afford a GameCube and a GBA and Metriod Prime and Metriod Fusion?

Umm, yeah... (1)

scot4875 (542869) | more than 11 years ago | (#6118905)

truly innovative and quality titles like Splinter Cell

So he rails on a Metal Gear Solid remake for about 3 paragraphs, and then wishes for 'innovative' games like Splinter Cell (a.k.a. Metal Gear Solid on estrogen -- note: I own both games, but I'm not particularly fond of either. That being said, MGS is a far better game than Splinter Cell IMO)?

I mean, the whole rant was pretty stupid. It's extremely hard to take someone seriously when they use the wrong 'their' in the opening paragraph. But to not see the irony in his own praise and bashing ripped the last tiny bit of credibility out of the editorial.

--Jeremy

Re:Umm, yeah... (1)

scot4875 (542869) | more than 11 years ago | (#6119221)

Gee, and on top of that, his current favorite games are:

F1 World Grand Prix, Madden 2002, and NHL 2002

Loads of innovation in that lot.

Not to mention that his most wanted game is "Your Mom." A real class act all around.

--Jeremy

Lies! All Lies! (2, Informative)

NintenDoctor (630435) | more than 11 years ago | (#6119847)

This guy is just another one of those whiners with nothing worthwhile to say. And while Burnout 2 is a very good racing game, to call it innovative is a total joke.

Personally, I prefer a steady balance of new and old ideas. Innovation at the sake of entertainment is not a good idea, and I do not buy games just because they're the next big thing.

If you're looking for something innovative on the 'Cube, get yourself a copy of the preview disc [ign.com] (supposedly, it's not for sale, but tell that to GameStop) and try Viewtiful Joe [ign.com] . It's like a classic side-scrolling brawler, but better. Plus it's got bullet time, and it works really well. The look of it will surely turn off people such as our dear author, but playing the demo catapulted it to near the top of my list.

Plus you get a demo of Wario Ware that's pretty cool too (haven't played the real thing yet).

Maybe... (2, Funny)

Guppy06 (410832) | more than 11 years ago | (#6122391)

... he's just a little miffed about what happened to him at E3 '01 [nintendorks.com] .

Re:Maybe... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#6127640)

Man, I witnessed that in person at that press conference and it was indeed horrifically embarrassing for all involved, including the audience: to see such a rabid fan deliver such a massive insult to the object of his reverence while humiliating himself in front of hundreds of journalists from around the world.
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