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Quake First Person Shooters (Games) Entertainment Games

Quakeworld Physics Captured in Quake3 258

Posted by michael from the it's-a-bird-it's-a-plane-it's-a-rocket-launcher dept.
Rooked_One writes "For people, that to this day, swear by the quakeworld physics where you could "bunnyhop" through huge maps in a matter of seconds, but were lured away by better graphics, your day has come. Fortress Evolution has been announced with a couple of groovy little movies to drool over until they have a release. Many of you will remember Quake Team Fortress, well, this mod for Quake3 is made by players primarily of Mega Team Fortress, which i'm sure some of you will remember in poor regards. But we won't get into that. What is needed to know is that you will be able to play QW in the quake3 engine."
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Quakeworld Physics Captured in Quake3 More

Quakeworld Physics Captured in Quake3

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  • QW still #1 (Score:1, Insightful)

    by ZeekWatson ( 188017 )
    QuakeWorld is still the best action FP shooter.
    • I never liked the physics or gameplay of QW. It always felt like something was missing and the gameplay was never as smooth. In netquake you could watch a play run or see a rocket being fired but in QW everything was jumpy and updated too quickly. A better example is the difference between UT and UT2K3. I love UT but UT2K3 feels like quake3 all over again *sigh*
      • Sounds like you were suffering massive packet loss when you last played QW. I still play QW on a regular basis, and with a decent connection, it is MUCH MUCH smoother than netquake.

        I have only seen what you are talking about, when I have something like 30% or more packet loss. When your connect is total crap like that, you need to turn off delta compression in QW. Then you won't get the jumpy stuff you mentioned.

  • I made (Score:5, Funny)

    by poopdik ( 623969 ) on Friday July 11, 2003 @10:23PM (#6421599) Journal
    I made an operation iraqi freedom mod for quake 3. Jessica Lynch gets stabbed and shot, but then still manages to fight on. Your job is to finish her off!

    • Re:I made (Score:5, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 11, 2003 @10:25PM (#6421610)
      Dude! You can't make fun of a national hero like that. Without her.... uh.. what'd she do again?

    • Re:I made (Score:2, Insightful)

      by mattwolfewvu ( 642717 )
      OK, Karma Burn time!

      First, fuck the mods that moderated this as funny. As someone who went to high school with her, knows her a little, and considers himself good friends with her brother, I don't find this funny at all.

      Second, I'm as outspoken as anybody about my displeasure with Bush and the whole Iraqi situation as anyone, but don't blame it on the kids who join the armed forces because they see it as a way to afford college and have a better life while showing a little pride in their country.

      Fina

      • Re:I made (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Pxtl ( 151020 ) on Saturday July 12, 2003 @12:32AM (#6422033) Homepage
        You know what I think the problem is - not enough people have disconnected the individuals and the administration responsible. Yeah, it'd suck to be her. But we make fun of the media circus, the manipulative government through her.

        The whole situation was the literal real world life-imitates-art adaptation of the film Wag the Dog (except she didn't rape a nun). The hospital was deep in friendly territory, with hospital staff treating her better then their own patients because they _knew_ who was in control and wanted to be on the right side.

        Instead of picking her up carefully and peacefully like they had every opportunity to, the US endangered her life by using a commando raid (full of commandoes who probably didn't even know where they were) to fish her out.

        What would have happened if the rescue raid had gone wrong? Whose fault would it have been? Who would have been blamed? And what would have been thought of those who complained? This is the thought-power of the current administration.

        Yeah, sucks to be her. But we're tired of being fucked with. Its not personal for us about her - I think the average American has every right to send her a "Get Well Soon" card and crack jokes and bitch at the same time, the same way they should have about other national tragedies. It is a multi-faceted view of the situation that keeps us sane, and keeps us responsible. To submit to seeing a problem only one way is to be a sheep.

  • For some reason... (Score:5, Funny)

    by craenor ( 623901 ) on Friday July 11, 2003 @10:24PM (#6421602) Homepage
    Mentioning Physics and Quake just gave me a mental image of Postal Workers on Segway's, riding around with Machine Guns shooting at each other.

    Err...for a game of course!

  • bittorrent anyone? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by LinuxGeek ( 6139 ) <djand...nc@@@gmail...com> on Friday July 11, 2003 @10:26PM (#6421615)
    I don't have squat for outbound bandwidth, but I have the movies. Anyone want them for a torrent?

  • hurray for vapourware ! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 11, 2003 @10:27PM (#6421618)

    a couple of groovy little movies to drool over until they have a release.

    this counts as news ? a few renderings does not a game make

    if you want mods for Quake see fileplanet for mods you can actually download, not some kids dreams
    • Hardly. The makers of this mod are well-known within their community and are not the type to give up on this. Maybe, before you post cynical bs like that, you should realize that every one of those "mods on fileplanet" was, at some point, no different than this one. Just a few renders on a website, and some "kids dreams."
  • Aaaaaaaaaand, Slashdotted.

    Anyone got a BitTorrent link for the movies?

  • Ever heard of Promode, for Quake3? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 11, 2003 @10:31PM (#6421637)
    It has better-than-QW physics, complete with bunnyhopping, doublejumping, and MANY, MANY more tweaks and gameplay improvements.
    By far the most skilled form of FPS gaming available to date. Quite a nice competitive community.

    Promode for Q3 [promode.org].
    • Hardened against aimbots too.
    • I'm so sick of people fanboying up different
      physics in FPS games. I could care. People will
      aways try to find some lame pick-point to label
      something 'leeter' or 'what the pros use' and
      it's just so much prick waving and nit-picking.
      It's about mastering the environment you are in,
      and getting the most frags, flags, whatever you
      need to do to WIN. That's it. Anything else is
      a lot of whining because something changed from
      version 1 to 1234123. I LOVE CPMA. I love the
      original netquake. I love quakeworld. I'm just
      tic

  • actually (Score:5, Informative)

    by bongobongo ( 608275 ) on Friday July 11, 2003 @10:32PM (#6421640)
    there already is a simulation of quakeworld physics

    it's called CPMA [promode.org] (challenge promode arena)

    and i used to play it a lot. it's pretty fun. it's not 100% faithful, but it's super fast with insane air control.

  • THANK THE LORD (Score:5, Interesting)

    by SirSlud ( 67381 ) on Friday July 11, 2003 @10:38PM (#6421663) Homepage
    For me, it's not whether either game is 'better'. Lets not squabble about which game has better game play.

    I am excited cause I started gaming with qw team fortress, and I'll be damned if moments of team fortress wern't downright euphoric. Q3 Rocket Arena is fun enough for me to play daily (I know, its sad), but if this mod delivers as promised, holy mother of god thank the lord, etc. You just can't replace the games you cut your teeth on.

    And to meet my /. quota of nerdiness, I imagine 20% of the reason I failed out of university was this game. (The other 80% was just how much I hated elec engineering.)

  • here's hoping... (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Here's hoping for Bandwidth Evolution so that I can view "Fortress Evolution" ...

  • bah, quakeworld (Score:2, Interesting)

    by skt ( 248449 )
    quakeworld physics sucked, netquake was where it was at.. too bad nobody plays that game anymore. I never could get into quakeworld or quake2/quake3 because of the feel of those later games.

  • Bunny Hopping - Maybe not so great (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 11, 2003 @10:59PM (#6421711)
    I'm not sure keeping bunnyhopping would be such a great idea. I remember playing tf before bunnyhopping became the norm and it was really fun. Various classes working together was required to win a match.

    When the source was released cheating became prevalent. Lots of people left the game in search of newer, better games without the various cheaters. Bunnyhopping became a big thing and extended the life of the game. It was a new tactice and made the game interesting again.

    The problem is bhopping messed up the class balance completely. Any class could run as fast as scouts. A HWGuy running faster than a medic defeats the purpose of having different movement speeds.
    • I have to disagree with you. I played with many a Team Fortress clan back in my day, some pretty damn good ones too.

      Bunny hopping added a lot to matches, not the least of wich was they suddenly became more instense as the flag was that much easier to cap. One of the biggest problems with TF back in the day was getting past the snipers, and bunning hopping changed that from being nearly impossible to being almost possible. It completely changed the game, made it more competitive and better imho. What ki
  • Well, although the submitter is bordering on trolling about Mega TF, I greatly enjoyed this 'mod of a mod', and still occassionally take it for a spin. (Yes, people still regularly play TF and MTF) I never saw why people had such an extreme boas against MTF. It took the good parts of TF, and then added even more toys (more fun!) for each class. It made staying alive a much more challenging prospect when you had so many more gizmos and gadgets to watch out for around you. Anyway, I just wanted to put in
    • Yes! MTF toys were awesome. I can remember having some of my best gaming experiences as a sniper and dropping frickin' airstrikes on unsuspecting enemy snipers but not before a radio voice would come on and say "Targets painted. Going for payload delivery." Not to mention that whenever someone thought they could escape your sniper wrath by jumping in the water, you could toss a toaster in the water to electricute their sorry ass. I hope they will have airstrikes in this new game.
  • Sure, regular TF was OK, but MegaTF was an improvment! Ahh, I miss the days when people used to play straight-up in Quake. I still play MegaTF, it is still the best gameplay of the FPS games. The different classes, weapons, and maps! Oh the maps. Where I used to work we had one of the floor of our building, and the server would run every day from noon to 12:30. I even created my own map. Fun fun stuff. And it still is, if you like gameplay and not oooooh pretty graphics.

    And bunny-hopping is for pan

    • By your logic, Rocket/Grenade jumping(What really seperates quake to this day) is cheating also.

      In MTF, the hwguys 20mm cannon made BHing easier, but netquake pyro flamethrower made stopping them that much less of a hastle. Just set the spiral on fire and theres no chance they'll make it up, drop a few napalms and they'll be dead in seconds.
  • Check out http://www.q3f.com This was done by the same group that went on to form Splashdamage, and make Enemey Territory (an awesome expansion to Wolfenstein multi-player, available for free) It's a faithful re-creation with a lot of excellent improvements. It even has a limited form of bunny-hopping... not that I think intentionally putting a bug back into a game is a great idea, but at least they did it in a controlled way...
    • Q3Fortress lacks the physics of QWTF/MTF, which in-part keep both games alive today. The reason Q3:FE is being made a modification is to more-or-less port the physics (and gameplay features) of MTF into Q3. Q3F missed the mark (though they had success) with hardcore QWTF players when they dodged the importance of true physics. - Negligence
  • If this modification becomes a finished product, I see no reason why it won't be more successful than Q3F. - Negligence

  • Quake Physics (Score:5, Informative)

    by Zoid ( 8837 ) * <zoidctf@gmail.com> on Friday July 11, 2003 @11:22PM (#6421789) Homepage
    Ah, the days of changing Quake physics.

    One of the major things I focused on in new QuakeWorld releases was getting the physics to match the original NetQuake as close as possible. I pretty much succeeded in the later versions of Quakeworld. As people probably remember, QW's initial physics model was quite messed up compared to the original Quake. The bunny-hopping, ramp acceleration jumping and fast in-air decceleration were all features of the original Quake physics.

    The idea of bringing QuakeWorld to match NetQuake physics was because those were what the original maps were built and designed with. It's also what players were acustomed to.

    I wonder how many people remember my attempt to bring NetQuake physics to Quake2. Quake2's initial model was very simple. In my 3.15 Quake2 patch, I tired to add air decceleration and other features of Quake's physics to the engine (because players wanted them, hell I wanted them since I played the game all the damn time). I had to pull them out in 3.16 and restore the original Quake2 physics because of fears I may break the original maps that came with the game.

    Quake3 was a mix of both physics models from the mind of Carmack. I think it was a good mix and felt pretty good. Probably should have fixed bunny hopping, however. I feel bunny-hopping was the worst thing to happen to Quake. Quake is about running and killing people, not bouncing everywhere.

    • Re:Quake Physics (Score:1, Interesting)

      by crypt1c ( 688858 )
      i have always apreciated your work, and i loved the 3.15 patch (among some of you other ventures at the time) you may not like bunny hopping, as most people really arent all the good at it, but it adds another dimension to the skill involved in a game. giving more tools to skilled players is not a bad thing, and can only enhance a game
      • It is simply a bug in the physics, a divergence in game behavior from the developer's intentions. It may take practice to do it well, but it takes even more skill (in a different field) to write an aimbot, and I don't think anyone would argue that writer is a better Quake player than someone using only his reflexes. Bunnyhopping should have been removed as soon as it was discovered.
        • lol it was a bug, just like strafe jumping etc. do you propose that strafe jumping be removed? absolutely ludacris
          • Yes, if, like I said, and like Zoid said, it was contrary to the developer's intentions. There's no difference between altered physical performance and "real" bugs that get you called a cheater for using them.
            • Although if you play TFC enough nowadays very rarely do you see people accusing someone of strafe jumping a cheater, yet they may be more inclined to do so with someone who bunnyhops around the map.
    • Have you guys tried that More Quakeworld client or FuhQuake (which is a stand alone game). They actually messed around with the physics themselves. More Quakeworld just feels messed up, I think to me it feels like NetQuake, but with some new features. MQW looks toonish compared to the original QuakeWorld. As for FuhQuake. It's supposedly just a replica of QuakeWorld, but with features that prove to other people that you don't have a hacked client and are cheating.
      • mqwcl doesn't change the physics. It is a client. The physics are calculated on the server, not the client.
        • The player move module is shared between the server and the client.

          I know, I worked on it for two years. The server is authoritive however, the client only uses the same simluation for prediction.
          • Yeah, mqwcl changed the jump prediction, to make it more accurate on new servers, i.e. server's with the jump bug fixed. The jump bug occurs when you have a really high FPS and low ping. You press jump when landing, you make the jump sound, and your screen even wiggles... but you don't actually jump.

            I understand that there are ways for the client to allow for speed cheats and stuff, but I am positive that mqwcl hasn't changed any physics other than smoothing out the jump prediction.
    • bunny hopping is definitely stupid looking and it has ruined quite a few demos, but i agree with the skill factor involved. better players should be able to move faster. for example, in doom the better players would use the strafe+forward or wall hugging trick to move faster, and this didn't look (as) stupid, and people were cool with that.

      now, the counter balance to the speed gain is the jumping noise made while doing it. you can hear a bunny jumping fool from a mile away. i'm pretty sure this is a large

    • Re:Quake Physics (Score:3, Insightful)

      by ragey ( 688854 )
      I strongly disagree with your last statement. Bunnyhopping has given a breath of fresh air to the QW community and all of its mods. Does anybody HONESTLY think that people would still be playing QW if bunnyhopping never came about? From a designer's standpoint, yes, BH may be the worst thing to happen to Quake. From a gamer's standpoint, it's nothing less than a Godsend. (Gamers who are willing to adapt instead of whine because they can't learn.)

  • Eh? (Score:3, Informative)

    by xihr ( 556141 ) on Friday July 11, 2003 @11:25PM (#6421803) Homepage
    You can bunnyhop just fine in Quake III Arena.
    • sure if you want to go less than 320 ups and have no control

    • not really (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Jagasian ( 129329 ) on Saturday July 12, 2003 @01:01AM (#6422162)
      Ok, there is a difference between what a Quakeworld person means by "bunnyhopping" and what a Quake 3 player means.

      In Quakeworld, people use the term "bunnyhopping", when in fact they are referring to an acrobatic trick known as accel running. Basically it combines two physics bugs as follows:

      Accel running = BunnyHopping + StrafeTurning

      Bunnyhopping in Quakeworld doesn't give you any extra speed. It just allows you to move without friction. So if you do a horizontal rocket jump and then repeatidly bunnyhop, you will keep the full speed of the horizontal rocket jump as you run.

      Strafe turning is something that is done while you are in the air. For example, you can hold left strafe while at the same time you smoothly turn your view to the left. This causes your movement speed to increase, even past the server max speed of 320 units per second.

      So accel running combines both. Bunnyhopping to keep speed and strafe turning to gain speed. An accel runner often starts a run off by using a horizontal rocket jump to knock their speed up to around 700 (remember, 320 is the normal max running speed). Then they bunnyhop and between hops, when in the air, they alternate strafe turns with jumps inbetween, left, jump, right, jump, etc...

      It takes lots of skill to do correctly, unlike Quake2 and Quake3 bunnyhopping. However, the benefit is that there is no theoretical limit to your speed. If you are good enough, you can move faster than the fastest projectiles in the game. You can out run rockets and bullets. Kind of like the agents in The Matrix.

      The drawback is that you make allot of noise when doing it. In the other Quakes, you make noise no matter what, when you run, but in Quakeworld you can run at full speed without making a noise. Accel running, however, makes a hell of a lot of noise, so you lose the stealth advantage. So players don't always use it. Its just another skill used in deathmatch.

      • Yes... and Quake3 too. (Score:3, Interesting)

        by mindstrm ( 20013 )
        In quake3, you can also do this. Look up "strafejumping" and "circlejumping" , you'll find plenty of references to it.

        You don't notice it in q3a as much because, well, the maps are smaller, and already fast paced, and there aren't as many places in the stock maps where it's really useful. In some mods, like Urban Terror, it's a godsend.

        You "bunnyhop" as you call it, and strafe.. and also turn a bit during each hop.. once you get the feel of it, you can fly after 2 or 3 hops. Fire up urban terror, then g
        • It may not be in Q3/Urban Terror, but in other games it really can get you faster than projectiles. Check out the movie Open_Your_Mind.avi (no link to prvent slashdotting, if you're that interested you can find it or contact me). He literaly does make it past his rocket.

          Its basicly a history of Team Fortress Classic movement tricks, from the original with TF-like physics to the current 'fixed' physics.
          It really shows how determined us gamers can be.

          For other great jumping, sunmanfinal.avi has some great
  • I told people that the Quake III engine wasn't dead yet. Also, I note that it has outlived the old UT engine. Don't you all remember that one? And how it loved 3dfx Glide? Well, this just goes to show, good always triumphs over evil when it comes to graphics engines. Okay, except for Half-Life 1.

  • Bunnyhopping?! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by mr.nobody ( 113509 ) on Friday July 11, 2003 @11:45PM (#6421873)

    Why did these people think adding that into the new code was a good idea? It ruins the game and should be banned. Period.

    As I see it, part of the fun of TF is the balance the mod strived to achieve with the classes. The goal of the design was to level the classes by mixing the power and operation of the weapons in relation to the speed of each class. Scouts were weak but had blazing quickness, while heavyweapons guys had the most powerful weapon in the game (yes, I'm ignoring the sniper rifle in snipe mode), but became tanks with their slowness. Bunnyhopping ruins this equilibrium.

    It used to be fun trying to get a hwguy across the bridge. Now some asshole hops his way all over the map using the hwguy as a scout. The class given the strongest weapon in TF now can move just as fast as the quickest class.

    So maybe, perhaps, it isn't technically "cheating" because hopping is the result of a bug in the code. The letter of the law may not be in violation, but the spirit clearly is.

    Don't be a lamer. Stop the hop.

  • Mega TF was awesome!

    I've yet to find another game type that I enjoyed just as much. Standard TF (or TFC) just feels like it's missing so much....
  • I see some people mentioning that bunny hopping was probably the worst thing that happened, and I tend to agree. Yet, ask almost any Half Life - Teamfortress Classic player, and they practically swear by bunnyhoping, since Half Life was based off the Quake (and I think parts of Quake2) engine, and TFC was converted from Quake TF.

    It's unfortunate in a way that ID Software had to release the source code. That doomed Quake and Quake TF for massive cheating clients and therby destroyed any community that was l
    • Heh one thing I forgot to mention, and friends have often asked this. Let's assume in the future if VALVe were to fix the bunnyhopping for good and remove it from TFC. I'd think a lot of those who "love" bunnyhopping would cry wolf so to speak.

  • Team Fortress... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by velophile ( 661890 ) on Saturday July 12, 2003 @12:00AM (#6421928)
    It's been so long since I've played TF. Those were some good days. I spent a summer basicly attached to my computer playing TF. TF had a magic no game I've played since has matched. What I remember most is how the level of skill increased from the begining. When I first started playing most servers switched between two maps, 2fort4 and the Rock. As time went on all the techniques got so hashed out. I remember that one of the things that seperated a good player from the great was RJing from the water on 2forts.

    I liked to play medic. In the begining I would run (wall slide) every where. But as time progressed so many new tricks where learned. When I would spawn, I'd run up the stairs and prime a hand grenade or conc and jump from the one base all the across to the sniper deck on the other side and waste the snipers with the nail gun or hack em with the medic axe. It was cool to see the evolution of game.

    Then sadly, the number of cheaters started to increase as did the number of Mega servers (gag) and of course as it grew the fun factor of a small tight community started to slip away. Sigh, fun times playing TF

    My right MB was prime HG on first click, toss on second

    Go >V< !!

  • Done already... (Score:3, Informative)

    by dethkultur ( 617989 ) on Saturday July 12, 2003 @12:01AM (#6421931) Homepage
    In the competitive community, Promode [promode.org] is the standard for Q3 nowadays, and it has had the QW-like physics in from the start (which was shortly after vannilla Q3). Check it out, thousands of demos of the top players from all over the world at Challenge-TV [challenge-tv.com].

    If you have Q3 and are looking for a good place to start, try the Promode demos from Daler (who is in France right now competing), krg (finland), or old-skool QW legend FienD. Warning though - watch one of these demos and your jaw may hit the floor, and you'll definitely be watching 10 more before you can stop.

    And kudos to my Aussie bud Hoony, who has been sheperding this mod for 4 years now...

  • As an MTF player (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Elanzer ( 688864 ) on Saturday July 12, 2003 @12:05AM (#6421941)
    There is no other game similar to MegaTF/RegTF for quakeworld out there, there has been remakes such as Q3F2 and TFC, but they've failed in the ways of physics. It's fast (bunny hopping), instead of holding forward, moving and aiming, you have to keep your speed up as you go, gaining speed off ramps, jumping at the right times to gain even more speed, while trying to launch someone in the air and nail him repeatedly up aganist the wall with rockets and make him land on your grenade, damaging him with combos repeatedly and fast as possible before he does any real damage to you. There's just no other game like it. Bunny hopping is not cheating if every single person can do it and it's easy to learn.
    • As Zoid said here himself

      "Probably should have fixed bunny hopping, however. I feel bunny-hopping was the worst thing to happen to Quake. Quake is about running and killing people, not bouncing everywhere."

      The way I see it now, they meant to fix bunnyhopping but didn't, it caught on in the Quake and later TFC community, and now a lot of players use it. If VALVe were to remove bunnyhoping now you'd probably have half of the community cheering the move to fix bunnyhopping, and the other half crying wolf and
    • Actually, I find this to be true of all team-based FPS games. In deathmatch, you spend most of your time fighting - but in CTF and others types, you spend a lot of your time just getting from A to B. In games like this, you really, really feel the top speed of the FPS runner, and really get bored by the simplistic movement model.

      That being said, I think the accidental QuakeWorld approach of jumping everywhere like a friggin rabbit drives me up the wall. I much preferred Doom's movement model - for those
  • grapple in this. If I can't be Tarzan, it just won't be the same...
  • I remember back in the day QW was playable on a 56l ph3ar my mad 100 ping :-D

  • What´s the use? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 12, 2003 @12:20AM (#6421992)
    These games have turned into pure cheat.

    Things were already ver bad when skilled guys could beat dudes with brains -- but hey, it was cool just playing for showing masterful tactics or strategies, even if losing.

    Today, there isnt even the option of losing: either you get sniped if you _think_ about their flag, you cannot get even near a cyborg-like jumping bunny or, the wrost of all, they team up with cheats to prevent your team from ever leaving respawn.

    Many years ago, I decided to adopt some ethical guidelines, for I loved the game and wanted to have real decent fun. One of them was always siding with the losing team. Thus, I could try to motivate them, help them to change the score or then just get a piece of the action.

    This is no longer possible. Effectively, were just playing against robots. Its no longer funny. I could team with some friends and play at LAN houses; the idea of playing online with strangers is lost forever, in my view...
    • Quake has been especially affected by cheaters. And why is that? Because ID software basically doesn't give a damn. For several months now there has been a version of OGC for Quake 3, and last I heard ID Software has done nothing to combat it. There's probably even more cheats for Quake 3 now, who know's, I haven't bothered keeping up.

      At least VALVe who made Half Life, TFC, and heaven forbid promoting and working on Counter-Strike, they have been working on several anti-cheat efforts and trying to give a d
    • It's because sniping in TF/MTF is really easy, with the current generation of players, even the speediest bunnyhopping, jetjumping scout, will get nailed in the head. People have evolved around bunnyhopping and they've gained reflections you wouldn't believe, being able to stop bunny hoppers easily with a rocket to the face. I believe you speak of public servers when you say these comments, because snipers are almost never, if ever used in clan matches / pick up games because if each team uses a sniper, the
    • Technically speaking, these aren't cheats. They're not really 'sploits. These players are playing by the rules. Its just that the rules suck. Quake is not a well-designed game - that's why its so "skill oriented" on skills that are orthogonal from regular gameplay. The designers didn't think enough, didn't worry enough about how the game would work. See www.sirlin.net for a good discussion of "cheating".

  • Won't Buy Q3A Until... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by ewhac ( 5844 ) on Saturday July 12, 2003 @12:35AM (#6422041) Homepage Journal

    Have they removed the copy protection from Quake 3 yet?

    No, not the "check the CD in the drive" copy protection. That was removed years ago. I'm talking about the copy protection that sends your "authorization" key to your_papers_please.idsoftware.com (note: may not be actual site name).

    I have nothing but the utmost respect for Mr. Carmack and all he has done, but there is no way I'm going to support this kind of unjustifiable waste of engineering and network resources (how much does it cost to run those servers each year?), the invasion of privacy (when I play the game, and with whom, is no one's business but my own), or the outright insult to my character to presume I'd be playing with an unsanctioned copy. (Unsanctioned copies? In this age of viruses and spyware? Are you out of your mind?)

    Copy protection in any form should not be tolerated, much less supported. So, until I hear that the client authentication requirement is gone -- not merely disabled, not made optional, gone -- my money shall remain firmly in my pocket. Yours should, too.

    Schwab

    P.S: Mind you, once it's confirmed client authentication is gone, I'll be off to buy a copy at Fry's so fast, you'll see a red-shift on my butt.

    • I can't see why you are apparantly against this? VALVe has been doing the same thing for over four years now with Half Life and all it's mods. You have a CD key, which is thereby converted into a WONID number and sent to one of the WONID Authentication servers. If you don't have a valid CD key that generates a valid WONID number, you can't play.
  • As an aside, Vertigo Software [vertigosoftware.com] just released Quake 2 ported to managed C++. It's a fairly straightforward conversion from C to managed C++ for the .Net platform. It runs fairly well, they're showing it's 15% or so slower, but at the 300 FPS range it doesn't really bother me... You can find it here [vertigosoftware.com].
  • I wonder if there are still game servers out there? Does anyone know if people still play the original TF? That was THE game that got me into online FPS. It's an icon in it's own right.

    ----

  • A post by someone who still plays QW. (Score:5, Informative)

    by Jagasian ( 129329 ) on Saturday July 12, 2003 @01:16AM (#6422236)
    I see many posts by people that haven't played Quakeworld recently. They don't truely understand what players can do, physics wise, in Quakeworld deathmatch. They confuse bunnyhopping in Quakeworld with bunnying in Quake 3. They are two different beasts. Check out this post for more info [slashdot.org]

    Let me make a few other recommendations for those who haven't played in a while, or to those that have never played this wonderful FPS game.

    For Quake's first couple years of life, players enjoyed the game and basically learned a few physics tricks: rocket jumping, wall running, etc... but after roughly 3 years since its release, some new acrobatic tricks were discovered that completely changed how Quake is now played.

    Quake has now become something that not only requires great aim and strategy, but also great acrobatic skill.

    If you want a taste of what I am talking about, download the Frags Done Extreme [qhlan.org] and Def Dag Extreme videos [planetquake.com]. They suffer from an overuse of slow motion, but thats because most of these acrobatic tricks require such great speed, that they are hard to see in full speed. Also note, when watching these videos, that low gravity or other such things are not used. The people in the video are simply moving incredibly fast, and the video is played in incredibly slow motion.

    So when the players look like they are flying, it is because they really know how to move, not because of low gravity.

    Trust me, if you have ever played Quake, but not played in a long time, those videos will blow your mind! THATS REAL DEATHMATCH BABY!

    For those that are interested in playing Quakeworld, note that it is opensource and runs on all of the major PC platforms, such as Windows and Linux. I recommend the FuhQuake client [fuhquake.net]. Though the game engine is opensource, the art content such as levels, models, sounds, and textures are still copyrighted by Id Software.

    So if you want to play, you will need to pay around $10 for a bargin bin copy of the game. Install it, and then install FuhQuake over it.

    Finally, the question that I have is, if all you want is Quakeworld, then why not play Quakeworld? It is cheaper than Quake 3, opensource, and Quakeworld has lower system requirements.

    People still play Chess after hundreds of years. The game gets better with time, as players learn new ways of playing. Should we give up Chess for newer shinier versions with better graphics and sound? Nah, just play the game if its fun. Stop wasting your money on more of the same.
  • Q3F [q3f.com] implemented QWTF physics a LONG time ago..
  • Quake 3 Fortress [q3f.com] has already been out for years. It is not based on TFC, but instead stays true to the original Team Fortress. Right down to the physics, for which they attempted to mimmick QuakeWorld.
  • Anyone remember a TF map made buy a guy named Sgt.....something or other. It had all 4 teams, spawn in a hall of their own. Imagine a map that from above would be shaped like a plus sign. Each team starts from one end out of the four, and the line is their 'hall' leading to the middle. The object is to get the ball in the middle and take it to a goalpoint (the middle was actually on a lower level, the halls end in a drop-off with up/down air currents for moving in and out of the hall, and a 'door' that open

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