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PC Games (Games) Role Playing (Games) Entertainment Games

Reviewers Pile On World Of Warcraft Beta 104

Posted by simoniker from the best-game-evah dept.
Thanks to GameSpy for its 'Pile On!' feature discussing Beta impressions so far on Blizzard's long-awaited MMO title, World Of Warcraft. Reactions range from the effusive ("I'm more convinced than ever that this game may finally be the first truly mass-market MMO") through the delighted ("I'm... completely in love with World of Warcraft"), to the ecstatic ("World of Warcraft delivers just what people are expecting: a tight, fun MMOG from a trusted developer.") Elsewhere, a WorldOfWarcraft.com forum discussion has a Blizzard representative mentioning release estimates of early this summer are likely wrong: "Definitely not July. As you know, we never set release dates, but you can expect the beta to run for another 5+ months." But, more importantly, does anyone _not_ like World Of Warcraft?
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Reviewers Pile On World Of Warcraft Beta More

Reviewers Pile On World Of Warcraft Beta

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  • Why some people turn away (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Pizzop ( 605441 ) on Wednesday March 31, 2004 @04:51PM (#8729057) Homepage
    One of the largest point that seems to stick against people who I game with is that there doesn't seem to be any PVP. I can see it being implemented, but it's just not the competitive game that most people I game with want. Of course, the people I game with are in no case any type of standard or majority, so our opinions don't really count.

    • Re:Why some people turn away (Score:5, Informative)

      by Vaevictis666 ( 680137 ) on Wednesday March 31, 2004 @04:56PM (#8729133)
      Of course, the people I game with are in no case any type of standard or majority, so our opinions don't really count.

      Unfortunately, that is very correct. Blizzard is not writing an MMO for a niche market - they are writing one for the masses, and if that means they focus on the not-so-hardcore MMO population, so be it.

    • Exactly. My Shadowbane guild, in looking for a game to migrate to, has eliminated WoW from consideration for just that reason.

      Of course, we play Shadowbane, so that puts us out of the mainstream already.

    • Re:Why some people turn away (Score:1, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      As an ex-DAoC player, I have to say that despite the obvious shortcomings of that game, their conceptualization (not necessarily implementation) of the RvR system was ingenious. It is hard for me to play other MMOs primarily because I am constantly finding myself wishing for something akin to the Realm v. Realm component with which I had such a blast on Dark Age.
      • I totally agree. DAOC was my first MMORPG, and so I had nothing to base it against. But now that I have tried basically every MMORPG that is on the market, I really do appreciate the concept of the RvR in DAOC. It is truly brilliant (even if seemingly obvious to a non-MMORPG player)

        That said, the reason I am no longer playing DAOC is because the game so poorly implemented that concept (and had other serious issues from the dev team)

        I don't see why WoW with an alliance and horde can't do this same t
    • One of the largest point that seems to stick against people who I game with is that there doesn't seem to be any PVP. I can see it being implemented, but it's just not the competitive game that most people I game with want. Of course, the people I game with are in no case any type of standard or majority, so our opinions don't really count.

      You and your friends might not be the standard majority of people playing MMO's now, but the majority of regular video game players would want PvP in an MMO if they we
    • Just load any modern FPS. Its got all the PvP you want without the annoying monthly fee. And they are usually balanced ... how many PvP MM0RPGs can you say that about?
  • I'm among the flocks that have been following this game for every nugget of news I can get about it. I wasn't fortune enough to have the opportunity to beta test the game (yet), so I have no hands-on impressions apart from the barebones alpha. That said, based upon the legions of reviews that have been presented on the game in the beta state, I am under the impression that the low-end game is rock-solid. It leaves me with an undying curiosity to see what Blizzard does with the high-end game. Have they p
    • I dunno Blizzard's beta schedule, but if they don't release high level content at all, how the hell can they tell how people play that content. For all we know, there could be serious balance, gameplay, etc.. issues that fall apart at this point.

      That said, I SERIOUSLY doubt that they won't allow players to play high-level content in beta. The anticipation is great and all, but not allowing anything would hurt their bottom line soon enough.

      • Re:The Game's Possible Weakness (Score:5, Informative)

        by cgenman ( 325138 ) on Wednesday March 31, 2004 @05:14PM (#8729363) Homepage
        Most high-level content isn't created until near the end of the development cycle. Until you're relatively certain the graphics format, sound format, gameplay ideas, and every thing else are panning out, why fill out content that you may have to redo? Better to focus on your engine and gameplay early on, while filling out the world with Blizzard production level art and design once the technical side is stable. They probably have a few of the God monsters artwork and quests complete (though not balanced), but it is doubtful they are just holding back on the universe. It's Beta because it is not done, and except for bug fixes Art and Level Designs are the last to go in.

        You can be pretty sure that the level 65 monster with the big fangs and the ability to throw things will pan out correctly if the level 16 monster with the hunchback and the ability to throw things is working well.

        Besides, what do you think they will be doing during the next six months? Strictly playbalance?

        • Also, if they'd just delayed the beta stage till the content was finished, how long would various people just end up sitting on their asses with no work to do? Core coders just sitting there bored waiting for the content developers to finish before the beta starts, and then the entire content staff just tweaking difficulty afterwards? I know the dev team's organization probably isn't quite that divided, but the problem would still exist.
      • They'll get to the 31-60 range soon enough. Just remember this, the lower-level game has to be good or you'll lose people before they even get to the high-end stuff. At this point thye could bump it 5 points a month and still manage a release this year.

        Would January be a good time to launch an MMO title ? I'd think putting out a new title just as people finish their Christmas presents is probably a good idea. EVE's launch was interrupted by the holidays and I've seen other projects (game and otherwise) ge

    • Re:The Game's Possible Weakness (Score:4, Interesting)

      by weaklink ( 463729 ) on Wednesday March 31, 2004 @06:15PM (#8730258)
      The Devs have commented that they will be raising the level cap as they complete enough areas/mobs/quests for that level to be fun. If I remember correctly they said they didn't have quite enough dungeons previously to put the cap up.

      They plan to raise the level cap to 35 for the next push. With 5 months to go, I'm sure they will have plenty of time to raise the cap to the same level they plan on having it set for retail.

  • WOW - All I can say is wow ! (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 31, 2004 @04:56PM (#8729134)
    Well I've been playing this for months. (Yes, I was lucky enough to be an Alpha tester too).
    And I've played no other game since I started.

    This game is really good. There are still balance issues (but they are not too bad), a couple of classes need buffing up a bit (mage especially).

    Hours of my life have been sucked into this game. It's so much fun, I would recomend it to anyone.

    Tradeskills are fun, I feel they need expanding a little, but we still are in beta, and changes are happening all the time.

    The economy seems to work (unlike SWG), there are money sinks as well as money generators. There has been no inflation (yet). Of course I haven't hit lvl 30 (max) with any of my chars yet, so these guys may have a different take on it.

    Two thumbs up. Recommended. Be prepared to lose all your spare time, and half your night to this game - every day.
    • I have faith, understand, I'm not criticizing a game I haven't played, that I expect to be amazing at release. But I don't think you can say much about the economy right now. It may work, I'm not at all saying it won't, but the fact that it's held up under testing conditions is barely evidence at all that it will work once the real game goes live. Scale is what kills the economies, and time.

      Again, I have faith in Blizzard in the end, it seems they've even done a little bit of repair to the Diablo II 'econo

  • Cripes (Score:5, Funny)

    by Boing ( 111813 ) on Wednesday March 31, 2004 @05:01PM (#8729209)
    the first truly mass-market MMO

    Seriously, guys, can we stop appending to acronyms?

    RPG was okay. MMORPG was obscure, but acceptable. But what, now we have MMMMORPG?

  • Where's OMM? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by jvmatthe ( 116058 ) on Wednesday March 31, 2004 @05:02PM (#8729222) Homepage
    Someone need to kick Old Man Murray [oldmanmurray.com] out of retirement. The video game world needs that hot, steaming cup of bile to wake it up from its gross, self-congratulatory stupor.

    Then we'd know if World of Warcraft was really worth its salt. And be entertained at the same time.
  • I hope that Blizzard doesn't try to "balance" the game. Back in the day, if you chose to play a wizard in an RPG, you knew the road was gonna be tough, but you'd eventually get to throw fireballs. Nowadays, people complain day and night about the lack of balance in a game. Live isn't balanced, we're not all Zen masters, deal with it.
    • Well, there's tough and then there's downright, no fun to play, bad ideas in character balance. The first rule of game making is that anything that makes the game unfun or unplayable shouldn't be added. If there's a long road to an eventual goal that makes that long road well worth it, that's okay. If it's just tough and long because the game is based on strength and leprechauns are just naturally weak (no +15 str Leprechaun Biosuits), that's an issue.

      Off the top of my head, because I'm playing it now,
    • I hope that Blizzard doesn't try to "balance" the game. ...

      The situation you described isn't unbalanced. It's just "time-balanced."

      "Game Balance" means "all of the players have roughly equal ammounts of fun." Usually, this translates to "all player choices mean roughly the same ammount of total 'power.'"

      Leaving MMORPGs and CRPGs aside, and getting back to pen & paper, imagine the game that doens't care about balance--five friends pick fighters, rogues, or wizards, which are all moderately balanced with each other, and then friend number six picks "uber cleric of d00m!", which lets him outclass everyone else.

      The game is unbalnaced, not because the cleric can do a lot or has the most power, but because it lets the player with the "uber cleric of d00m" do everything--and that means that he often will, meaning that he'll do more than anyone else--and he'll probably have more fun than anyone else.

    • Diablo 2 has been out for years and they still haven't balanced it. Don't believe me? Just try and play through the game with an Assassin.

  • GameSpy going along with marketing hype? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Pluvius ( 734915 ) <pluvius3&gmail,com> on Wednesday March 31, 2004 @05:14PM (#8729362) Journal
    Wow, I'm shocked. Sign me up for three copies!

    Rob
  • ..well... uhh.. ergghh..fffffffffffffffinee.. YES! I LOVE IT! GIVE IT TO MEEEE!

  • I don't like it (Score:1, Offtopic)

    by DaveJay ( 133437 )
    I don't like the game. Too many trans fats.

  • I LOVE WOW! (Score:1, Offtopic)

    by Herkum01 ( 592704 )
    Who wouldn't love the Woman of Wrestling! [wowe.com]

  • The flaws will not be in the game (Score:3, Insightful)

    by SpittingTrashcan ( 639879 ) on Wednesday March 31, 2004 @06:15PM (#8730268)
    Blizzard is very good at making games that are rock-solid, highly balanced, and immensely fun to play... alone. And the Beta is going to be a blast, at least at first, because everybody on it is overjoyed to be playing this lovely game with everyone else. Once the general public gets their hands on it, things may not be so pretty.

    How does Blizzard plan to handle griefing? Has anyone in the Beta tested the degree to which they can make other players miserable? This is where Old Man Murray's review of Asheron's Call was so helpful - it pointed out, with dramatic effectiveness, that it was quite possible to follow the rules of the game, not attack anyone, and still bug the hell out of other players. Until the general public - including the hackers, griefers, scammers, spammers, trolls, and general scum of the Internet - get in on this game, it won't be possible to truly evaluate the gameplay experience.

  • Five Months of Beta? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Tofino ( 628530 ) on Wednesday March 31, 2004 @06:16PM (#8730277)
    Five months of beta mean a first-day-of-retail populace that includes two groups. First, the lucky, small percentage of people who will proceed to form cliques and keep their super-secret-squirrel knowledge of the best places to hunt, trade recipes, etc. to themselves, gaining levels and wealth in a very short period of time. And the vast majority that will enter the game, see these people, see all the content being solved by them on day two, and give up.

    Happened to a lot of people when FFXI went live in NA. Several people from the Vault boards quit the game because they felt it was impossible to establish any sort of level playing field. Sure, not everyone is going to feel competetive, but it's like taking someone who's just learned to play chess, and throwing him in a tournament. That person's hopes are going to be crushed, and it's unlikely they're going to see the better players as something to strive towards.

    • That happened in EVE too. The groups formed during beta teamed up immediately after launch and never looked back. After a year it's turned into a very intense PvP game - I got ambushed and killed just for passing through someone's territory.

      PvP is much more fun for the hardcore player - they have the good stuff.
    • Chess is more logarithmic than the MMORPG situation which is more linear. That is, it'll take a while to be competetive at chess, but then to get a little better will require much more work. But in the MMORPGs, it could be impossible to catch up to the higher players - even with exponential experience requirements - because in my experience (granted i was never very competetive) a level 41 could always defeat a level 40.
  • Is there any way to get into the beta? It seems that everybody except me has access to this game, and it's kind of nagging on me.

    Is it a small closed beta, or a large scale beta like Asheron's Call 2 had going?
    • Closed beta. Sign-ups ended ages ago.
    • It's pretty small now, all the people you see that are in on it are just the ones with the most to say. It will grow, in stages, but if you didn't participate in the sign-ups you'll have to wait for the huge fully open beta to play, unless I misunderstand the plan and you won't even get to play then.

      As of now, though, supposedly less than half the people actually playing the beta got their accounts by directly signing up. It's more people involved with fansites, alpha testers, and the like.
  • Nothing ever lives up to hype. While I'm sure the game is good, you *know* people will be dissapointed and whiny as soon as something starts to bother them.

    This is generally the 'movie sequal' theory, but it applies here too I think.
    • That's part of the reason Blizzard doesn't like releasing too much info ahead of time. Back with Diablo II, they announced a few possible features way before release, and they didn't get into the final game. I remember seeing plenty of people saying they would never play they game because of it.
    • Nothing ever lives up to hype.

      This is *especially* true in the case of Blizzard, which has an exceptional marketing engine.

      I remember them working on building up fervor about Starcraft. Not that Starcraft was a bad game, but they had a huge amount of misleading and exaggerated claims about the abilities of the engine.

      I don't see why anyone cares about a game like WoW before it comes out. Ignore it until the release, then read a review or two or take a look at the forums and think about whether you wan
  • Is not that surprising that WOW is getting all thumbs up not only this comes from blizzard and we are talking about dedicated warcraft fans, these guys are playing for free! (drum roll! thank you! tip the waitress on the way out please!)
    Anyway jokes apart, is interesting that they are liking the game without PVP think about it, no PVP means no Player Killers, less vandalism and pillage, less laggy battles(since the CPU only has to conscern on monsters and their AI) and no abusing on the newbies(!!!) could

  • Penny Arcade hint at a major weakness (Score:3, Informative)

    by realdpk ( 116490 ) on Wednesday March 31, 2004 @07:13PM (#8731038) Homepage Journal
    Penny Arcade had a hint at a major weakness (in my eyes). I read it as them suggesting that they wanted to play with their girlfriend, but in order to do that they had to limit their own play, so she doesn't become a "support" character. (Site's down, else I'd grab an exact quote).

    That's one of the major failings of all MMOGs I've seen thus far, except perhaps UO. That real-life friends can have a lot of trouble trying to keep up, and once one falls behind, they are pretty much screwed unless they can play a lot of catch-up.

    I'm waiting for the day a game comes out that allows for players to take breaks/vacations/do real life stuff, and still be able to play with their friends. So far all they've done is make it very difficult. (I do have personal experience with this, not just blowing smoke)
    • The Realm Online Realmserver.com [realmserver.com] Is fairly interesting for the people who don't have time for making commitments of long periods of times. Granted the graphics are a little shabby especially if you are not into 2d graphics, but it's pretty cheap. Plus it is one of the first MMORPGs ever, created by Sierra, and before UO.

      As for a game for the casual gamer. An online game is definately not the place. You cannot expect someone who can put in 5 hours a day in a game to be at the same level as someone who o
      • You misread me, or I wasn't clear. I don't expect to be at the same level. I'd like to be able to play with my friends, regardless of the level difference.

        I understand I won't be as effective. In most games, you can play alongside higher level players, but you won't get any experience or any loot. There's no incentive to play with your friends if they're way up there in levels.

        In some games, like FFXI, the "penalty" for having different levels is extreme once you get 3 or 4 levels out. You could play 4 ho
        • In most games, you can play alongside higher level players, but you won't get any experience or any loot. There's no incentive to play with your friends if they're way up there in levels.

          This is very true in Diablo II, and with every second patch or so, it's gotten more so. Of course, practically nobody's aware of this at all...I love how a stupid person with good intentions sometimes refuses to believe that they aren't helping me a bit by bringing in their level 30 character to support my new level 2. Re
        • I honestly can't remember if this was something I read in a preview somewhere, or in a "Some game should include this" rant somewhere. (I feel like it might have been the latter, and on Penny Arcade.)

          A nifty sollution to the problem of not being able to play with higher level friends would be the ability to do temporary apprenticship with higher lever characters. Say a level 10 hooks up with their friend, who has been playing longer and is a leve 30. The level 10 would get some sort of temporary stats and
    • This is an area where Shadowbane does well. Leveling is so fast that this is not a problems at all. A dedicated player can hit the cap in a month. A casual player can hit it in 3 months, and be useful in the meantime.

      Of course, this is necessary, because it usually takes three tries to design a character that is any good...

    • Re:Penny Arcade hint at a major weakness (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      This is why i really like City of Heros, which allows the user to "sidekick" someone that is 5 or more levels lower than them. It raises the "sidekicks" attack level to 1 or 2 levels lower than the mentor. Thus allowing someone who is much higher level to still play with their low level friend
  • Just today was a Press Release about voice overs [eqii.com] in EQ2. The videos are great and I can see this being a main features in most mmos to come. Not to mention Everquest has been running strong for 5 years now so they are quite established and experianced. (Death system is much better than EQlive too imo, no xp loss)

  • One thing I hate about Blizzard games... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by MachDelta ( 704883 ) on Thursday April 01, 2004 @01:02AM (#8733775)
    ...is that they build staircases to nowhere.
    This hit me hardest with Diablo 2 (+LOD). You start off, the game is great, everything is new and exciting, skills, equipment, quests... you're completely wowed by it all. You keep playing, and quests start to become rehashes of other quests (eg: Kill x, find y, bring item to z), but you keep playing because you're still leveling and finding new and exciting gear. And then, the magical night comes: You beat the game. Congrats! A winnar is yuo! ...and then what? In Diablo's case, you move on to Nightmare and Hell. The exact same game, only with tougher monsters and phatter lewt. You keep leveling and finding cool shit, so for a while its OK. But eventually you beat the game a second and third time. Then what? Keep looking for phatter lewt and more levels! So you start with the Meph runs and Pindle runs and Baal runs. Over and over and over, all in the search for more levels and the uberest gear in the land.
    I used to be mad into Diablo, always looking for the perfect character and the l33test equipment setup. And then one day I realized just what I was doing, and how pathetic it was. I'd willingly jumped off the campaign, the grand staircase, right into a pit of boring and stupid. Fortunatly for Blizzard, their druglike secret formula is frequently strong enough to keep players splashing around in a shithole post-game indefinitly. But eventually I looked around and realized where I was, what I was doing, and how Bliz had duped me into getting there. And I guarantee you I will not be going back.
    Which is why i'm concerned about WoW, and why I have yet to subscribe to a MMORPG. Now i'm sure Blizzard will craft a masterful MMORPG and a great story, and reviewers will shower the game with praise... but as long as Blizzard (and indeed, most MMORPGs) continue to neglect the giant question-mark that is the post-game, I won't willingly fork over ANY of my cash for their game(s). Bliz could create their best collection of quests yet, but as long as the game still remains a staircase to nowhere... i'm not climbing it. Sorry Bliz.
    • You could say that about all MMORPGs. Which is why I'm sticking with NWN because it's not just about being a munchkin, there's more than just leveling up and getting loot.

      Then again, I've been spending more time creating for NWN than I have playing it.

    • Is that even after you've spent weeks and even months into beating the game over and over again, getting many many hours of entertainment from a measly ~$40 initial investment, and no further monthly fees for playing on their busy servers, you still enjoy it and want to keep playing.

      Fortunatly for Blizzard, their druglike secret formula is frequently strong enough to keep players splashing around in a shithole post-game indefinitly.

      You understand what "post-game" means, right?

    • Re:One thing I hate about Blizzard games... (Score:5, Informative)

      by Lord_Dweomer ( 648696 ) on Thursday April 01, 2004 @06:06AM (#8735063) Homepage
      You seem to think that this "druglike secret formula" is unique to Blizzard. I got news for you, its not unique to Blizzard, its not unique to Verant, its not even unique to MMORPGs.

      I suggest you do a little reading on what a Skinner Box is. Here is a great essay [nickyee.com] which explains how MMORPGs are essentially giant skinner boxes.

      The trap you fell into is called psychological addiction, and it is quite vicious indeed. But what better way is there to ensure a continuous revenue stream from your customers.

      As with all things in life, these games are fine in moderation, but always be careful that you aren't getting TOO into it.

    • Where does the staircase of other games end? Nirvana? Complete happiness? All-knowing-ness? Did Jesus come back to Earth when you finished Super Mario? Did fireworks go off when you beat Legend of Zelda? Was world peace achieved when you finished GTA3?

      Games are all about the fun you have while you're playing them. When they're not fun anymore, stop playing them and give them to me. :)
    • Interesting angle, but where are you supposed to go? You spent your $40 on a single-player game, played it for 100+ hours, hell maybe 200+. How much would you pay for 100 hours of entertainment if it were, say, MOVIES? Average of $8.50/movie, 100 minutes per movie... that's $510. Looks to me like Blizzard saved you at least $470.

      Now there's a huge difference between single-player games and MMO games. The distributor and publisher gets most of the money for the $40 cost, but the developer and infrastru

    • Another poster is exactly right about games being a behavior mod designed to keep you at your computer. What's puzzling me is what you expected? What do you expect from a game after you finish playing it? Are there other games that have handled the postgame well? I'm pretty familiar with games but I don't know of any that continue to reward you after you've received all the awards in the game.

      I am, incidentally, considering WoW because I read somewhere at bliz that they're adding new content each mo

  • It isn't absolutely confirmed but since there community rep Kat likes to tease with her inside knowledge I would call it close to being "offical"

    Here's the cut and paste of the post:

    --
    We will have some special rule servers, but have not yet determined what ones we'll create.

    It's quite possible that our next beta server will be PvP.

    ~Kat :)

    --

    Go here to read the thread yourself:

    http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?FN=w o w- general&T=9560&P=1&ReplyCount=16#post9 560

  • Blizzard (Score:1, Troll)

    by Lando ( 9348 )
    Unfortunately with all the BS over Blizzard Corporate suing the open source community and their not producing products for Linux means that I will never see this game.

    Instead I am watching the founding members of blizzard north that formed their own company [flagshipstudios.com] to see what they come up with...
  • ...I'll play anything, and wait forever. Especially if it's by Blizzard!
  • ...give us Starcraft 2 !

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