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Role Playing (Games) Entertainment Games

30 Years Of Dungeons And Dragons 264

Posted by timothy from the no-beldar-the-biiiig-die dept.
vasqzr writes "CNN has a story about Dungeons and Dragons celebrating its 30th birthday. 'An estimated 25,000 fans in 1,200 stores celebrated the anniversary Saturday, said Charles Ryan, brand manager for role-playing games at Wizards of the Coast, a Renton, Washington, company that owns Dungeons & Dragons.'"
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30 Years Of Dungeons And Dragons More

30 Years Of Dungeons And Dragons

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  • Although correlation != causation (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 17, 2004 @10:29AM (#10549984)
    Countries with D&D have seen their birthrates decrease for the past 30 years.

  • 30 years! (Score:5, Funny)

    by geeveees ( 690232 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @10:30AM (#10549987) Homepage Journal

    THIRTY years of Dungeons&Dragons!

    It's a ...

    /me rolls 1d6

    ...HAPPY birthday!

  • 30 Years? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Pan T. Hose ( 707794 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @10:32AM (#10549992) Homepage Journal
    Wow. I am very -- *rolls dice* -- surprised that it's already so long.

  • Thanks... (Score:5, Funny)

    by MrFluffyPants26 ( 724497 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @10:33AM (#10549997)
    ..for telling me a day late.
    • You're annoyed? Heck, I just found out that today it is the culinery olympics in germany... why oh why can't the news agencies tell us these important things *before* they happen, eh? I could have booked off some holiday time...
    • I was considering going to the local 30th anniversary game yesterday, having not played since 2nd ed. AD&D a few years ago. But when I heard they were running two "D&D" games (no "Advanced") I figured no big deal if I didn't go, since Dungeons and Dragons is a different game from Advanced Dungeons and Dragons. Now I'm learning that they took the "Advanced" from the title and now the third (or 3.5 edition) of AD&D is simply called "D&D" (and they discontinued the regular D&D?) now and I p

  • Thanks... (Score:4, Funny)

    by while(true) ( 626738 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @10:34AM (#10550001)
    ...for making me feel old, you insensitive clod!

    Just kidding, happy big 30 D&D! :)

  • Nice, Sort Of (Score:5, Interesting)

    by mfh ( 56 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @10:35AM (#10550005) Homepage Journal
    D&D is such a great game. I would like to thank Ed Greenwood [zackcompany.com] for his wonderful contributions to the game in the form of the Forgotten Realms [wizards.com]. Truly inspirational work this stuff is, or at least was. But sadly TSR has gone downhill since being eaten by the WoSC group [wizards.com], who used to just make a bunch of playing cards [wizards.com]. Before you all pipe in and tell me to shut the hell up (because 3rd gen r00lz), I'll have you know that any time a module presents NINE 10th level fighters together as a battle, like in the Ravenloft adventures in and around Bluetspur [wikipedia.org], you have to ask if the depth of the game has been replaced by the stats that go with it. The answer has to be that the game has indeed shifted from a game of detailed and rich storytelling, such as with Ed Greenwood's additions, to a game of character advancement by hacking and slashing monsters, and people.

    I'm sorry but TSR jumped the shark with Ravenloft, not to mention Spell Jamming.

    • Re:Nice, Sort Of (Score:4, Interesting)

      by NeoSkandranon ( 515696 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @10:43AM (#10550035)
      To me Forgotten Realms IS D&D just about...I started D&D with the FR setting (improvising, just using maps, not the acutal FR campaign setting) and I really love it..there's so much back-material that a DM can incorporate and so many places and whatnot. Some people may call me unoriginal for not wanting to create my own worlds, but frankly I don't think that a campaign suffers much from having a ready body of terrain and culture to take from...

      Either way, down one for Ed Greenwood (and pray his books come out in paperback faster!)

    • Re:Nice, Sort Of (Score:2, Informative)

      by Moby Cock ( 771358 )
      I have to agree. I used to play AD&D years ago until a friend of mine wanted to switch over to play the Star Wars RPG. It was fun change for a short while until the characters became all powerful (read: super stong Jedis). That game, like your comment, really focused on getting better skills and then killing more stormtroopers. Its fun for a little bit but gets old.

      I remeber playing AD&D and the reward at the end of a weekend of adventuring was a sword. And it took another weekend to find t

    • Re:Nice, Sort Of (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Junior J. Junior III ( 192702 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @10:50AM (#10550070) Homepage
      Ravenloft and Spelljammer were 2nd edition. And yes, it was getting lame at that point. Ahem, relatively speaking.

      But 3rd edition was a great revision. The core rules are wonderfully streamlined, yet complex. The system has its flaws and faults still, but melee in 3e was the most managable system of any edition since Basic D&D.

      D&D always runs into a problem where in order to keep selling books they have to publish more and more titles, and after a while the well runs dry and they just don't playtest or quality control like they should. But if you stick to the core books and your own house rules, it's a great game.

      • Re:Nice, Sort Of (Score:2, Insightful)

        by heptapod ( 243146 )
        The biggest flaw with D&D 3.5 is the fact that it still requires people to use obscure polyhedral dice. How many times have you rolled a d12 in a game?
        I'm surprised that the folks working on D&D didn't take stock of what kind of dice get rolled most frequently and migrate the system to using one kind of die like other gaming systems.
        • How many times have you rolled a d12 in a game?

          Every time my Dwarf attacks ...
        • using one kind of die like other gaming systems.

          Boring....

          I don't want to need to roll 4d6 for every attack.

          Using one kind of die == lacks versatility.

          Besides, d10's, d12's etc are are hardly "obscure"... d1000's yes, but when you can get the damned things for under a buck, I'd hardly call them obscure.

          Also, you can use them to fascinate non-gamers ("wow, a dice that doesn't have six sides...")

          :P

    • To be fair WotC were a small games publisher like any other (Talislanta and some other stuff) until they were approached by Richard Garfield (could be the wrong name, its been a while) with a certain collectable card game. I'm not sure anyone involved at that point was 100% responsible for the runaway success of their own product since it wasn't really initially meant to be a 'collectable' game. And since they've spent a good many years now owned by Hasbro, the widget maker of the board game world, is it an

    • Re:Nice, Sort Of (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Bootsy Collins ( 549938 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @11:07AM (#10550134)

      I can understand (and agree with) this argument if all one does is use the pre-prepared campaigns and adventures put out by WotC. But if you're designing your own campaign, I don't see how this need be true. I can't tell you you're wrong, since I haven't run a game or played under D&D3 rules (since I'm not playing or running games at all these days). But you don't have to use the campaigns that WotC puts out.

      Put another way, what is it about D&D3 (as opposed to AD&D2 or AD&D1 or original D&D -- don't know much about D&D2 myself) that prevents a creative referee from desigining an interesting campaign, containing involving stories, and presenting them in an engaging fashion?

    • Re:Nice, Sort Of (Score:5, Insightful)

      by skroz ( 7870 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @11:08AM (#10550136) Homepage
      you have to ask if the depth of the game has been replaced by the stats that go with it. The answer has to be that the game has indeed shifted from a game of detailed and rich storytelling, such as with Ed Greenwood's additions, to a game of character advancement by hacking and slashing monsters, and people

      You forget one very important thing about D&D and RPGs in general... the game is what you make of it. The system is incidental. If your GM and players all want a game about hacking and slashing, then the d20 rules will give you a great place to do that. If your group wants action, adventure, character development, intrigue, and all of the "flavor," then you can also do that within the framework that WoTC has provided with third edition. Or you could use another system. Or use no system at all.

      Personally, I'm thrilled with the changes made from 2nd edition to 3rd. 3.5 doesn't sit as well, but they really did fix a lot from 3.0. But the books themselves are there as tools to help GMs (sorry, DMs) build worlds, and it's up to the storyteller to create a world in which the players can find adventure. You don't need rules for that... you need rules to keep everyone from arguing with each other when you do need to figure out what happens to the kobold when it gets hit with the +5 axe of vorpal soothing.

      • You know what? Just to prove it can be done, I'm going to run my next session using the rules for Chutes and Ladders... just to prove my point to, er, myself.

      • Re:Nice, Sort Of (Score:5, Funny)

        by meringuoid ( 568297 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @11:54AM (#10550365)
        you need rules to keep everyone from arguing with each other when you do need to figure out what happens to the kobold when it gets hit with the +5 axe of vorpal soothing.

        His arm comes off, but he's OK about it.

      • 3.5 Almost seemed to me what WinME was to Windows....some of the errata seemed to work well, but there were other things (didn't they reintroduce a form of 2e Kits?) seemed to be unbalanced (or else targeted at simple hacknslash campaigns) ---if i'm wrong please tell me, but from what i've read/heard....

        Oh, and there was that part where (again as far as i know) if you have 3.0 core books you have to buy brand new 3.5 books all over again (not a drop in the bucket to a college gamer)
    • WoSC group

      Wizards of the Sword Coast?

    • Re:Nice, Sort Of (Score:3, Informative)

      by Allen Varney ( 449382 )

      sadly TSR has gone downhill since being eaten by the [WotC] group [...] TSR jumped the shark with Ravenloft, not to mention Spell Jamming.

      As others have pointed out, TSR published the Ravenloft and Spelljammer campaign settings long before Wizards of the Coast bought TSR. More to the point, many fans regard the Ravenloft setting as one of the high points of the TSR years, because of its sharp sense of the Gothic horror genre. Wizards sold the line to White Wolf Game Studio, which continues to publish it

    • I'm sorry but TSR jumped the shark with Ravenloft, not to mention Spell Jamming.

      TSR jumped the shark with 2nd edition. Not "During", "with". Which is why when WotC sent Ryan Dancy to check out if they could be bought, he found a warehouse full of unsold 1st edition material.

      TSR was bought out because, quite frankly, they didn't know what they were doing. WotC took D&D and made it what it always had been at the core--a rather campy hack & slash system with rules clear enough to be stretched to

    • Re:Nice, Sort Of (Score:2, Insightful)

      by muhcashin ( 787826 )
      Well, from my experience, rules are useful (and perhaps necessary) to hack-and-slash games. Those games require a lot dice rolling whereas the more-talk-less-fight games generally don't need very detailed rules. Immersive story-telling games need only a reasonable DM. And to those who hate hack-and-slashing, D&D was born from war games, so it only makes sense that violence and killing be part of it.

    • Re:Nice, Sort Of (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Thangodin ( 177516 ) <elentar AT sympatico DOT ca> on Sunday October 17, 2004 @12:40PM (#10550575) Homepage
      I am partial to 2nd ed, and I loved the first ed Gygax modules (the Vault of the Drow series and Giants series). And I've got a shelfload of Dragon magazines. But really, the whole point was never the rules, but what you did with them. The nice thing about D&D was the fudge factor--as the DM, you could scale the difficulty level as you went to bring the party to the edge of defeat without wiping them out. More strictly defined rules systems didn't leave this leeway, because players could tell from the dice roll whether they had succeeded or not. In D&D the DM was always the final arbiter. Now you can run online adventures with Neverwinter Nights, so if your old D&D group has split up into different cities, you can still play together, but I'm not sure it gives the same leeway.

      I was lucky in that I played in university with a bunch of people with multiple degrees. We had people in history, philosophy, english, political science, psychology, and engineering, all voracious readers, and a couple of hard core gamers. The interesting thing about running in a tabletop game is that the DM plays God, so you really get to see what their idea of justice, politics, economics, and human nature is. This led to a lot of interesting discussions on subjects like the nature of evil or medieval politics. We used to have pitched arguments about the difference between religion in the game world vs. the medieval world. The gods in the game world took active roles, while the God of the medieval church never intervened. This meant that religion in the game world was actually controlled by the gods--a very interesting premise.

      Another interesting thing about D&D is that it is intended as a fully cooperative game. A lot of cooperative games were created in the 70's, but D&D is the only one that caught on. The opponents are provided by the DM, who nevertheless is not playing against the players. This was always missed by the hysterical critics, who were obsessed with the violence in the game or the mythical elements (eewwww--the occult!) Media coverage of the game in the early days was pathetic. They were always so intent on looking for a scare story that they couldn't see what was going on right in front of them: players working together in a creative hobby.
    • To me, the FR was always something of a let-down. It tried very hard to be larger than life and succeeded all to well. To my mind, the world of Greyhawk is the once and future D&D setting. It's deliberately middle-fantasy, aggressively neutral, and sits nicely on its own.
    • I would like to thank Ed Greenwood for his wonderful contributions to the game in the form of the Forgotten Realms. Truly inspirational work this stuff is, or at least was.

      For those who prefer a higher level of consistency and a somewhat lower level of fantasy, HarnWorld [lythia.com] is unparallelled as far as RPG settings go. I find it infinitely more inspiring than anything TSR/WotC has produced, FR included. Both the official (here [columbiagames.com] and here [kelestia.com]) and the fan-produced material (example [lythia.com]) is outstanding.

    • Re:Nice, Sort Of (Score:3, Insightful)

      by RedWizzard ( 192002 )
      You're confused. Ravenloft and Spelljammer are pre WotC, and the power-gaming you seem to be complaining about was around well before 3rd edition, infact most of it predates 2nd edition. Was it really necessary or desirable for TSR to publish statistics for gods (Deities and Demigods)? Was there much storytelling potential in the artifacts presented in 1st edition? Or monsters such as the much loved Tarrasque?

      From the economic point of view 2nd edition really felt exploitive with the never ending range of

  • Am I the only one that noticed... (Score:3, Informative)

    by slappyjack ( 196918 ) <slappyjack@gmail.com> on Sunday October 17, 2004 @10:38AM (#10550012) Homepage Journal
    ...that it looks like the A.P. has poorly educated High School Students writing their articles now?

    I mean, this thing looks like its target at about a 4th grade reading level.

    Happy B-Day to D&D anyway.
    • Yep, I've noticed numerous spelling errors and pretty substandard grammatical constructs recently as well. Not just stupid shit like how to use a semicolon or ending a sentence with a preposition either, but about sentences that contain vague subjects and verbs with improper tenses.

  • Obligatory (Score:5, Funny)

    by quintesson ( 118019 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @10:39AM (#10550014)
    ... and it still hasn't moved out of it's parents' basement!

    I wonder if the D20 system will last that long.

  • Gaah! (Score:4, Funny)

    by Trikenstein ( 571493 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @10:40AM (#10550016)
    I blew my saving throw and had to rta!

  • Where're the Cheetos??? (Score:5, Funny)

    by zrk ( 64468 ) <spam-from-slashd ... .net minus berry> on Sunday October 17, 2004 @10:41AM (#10550023) Homepage


    Can I have some Mountain Dew?

  • World Record? (Score:3, Funny)

    by BurritoWarrior ( 90481 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @10:41AM (#10550025)
    Will they get into the Guinness Book for all-time largest gathering of virgins?

  • That first session, so long ago... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Etherwalk ( 681268 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @10:43AM (#10550033)
    In the beginning there was the fighter, and he was without wisdom and void of intellect. So he was named sponge. And there was evening and there was morning, the first character.

  • Wow.. (Score:5, Funny)

    by NightWulf ( 672561 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @10:44AM (#10550040)
    "An estimated 25,000 fans in 1,200 stores celebrated the anniversary Saturday". Wow, A vacuum of virginity only rivaled by that of a Star Trek convention. I kid! I kid!

  • Dupe (Score:5, Informative)

    by Junior J. Junior III ( 192702 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @10:45AM (#10550042) Homepage
    This story hit a few months ago, and was covered on Slashdot.

    Here [slashdot.org] and
    Here [slashdot.org].

  • 24,999 guys with chainmail bikini posters. (Score:5, Funny)

    by leftie ( 667677 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @10:46AM (#10550054)
    1 chubby girl that shouldn't have worn a chainmail bikini.

  • Changing Demographics? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by subrosas ( 752277 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @10:51AM (#10550074)
    I've seen sailors in the USN play D&D, lawyers play D&D, children play D&D with their parents. I've seen sysadmins play, financial advisors play, even a high school teacher or two.
    D&D has left the basement rec room geek nirvana of the early '80s and gone elsewhere, as the article (barely) alluded to.

  • Old or young? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by mhollis ( 727905 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @10:53AM (#10550087) Journal

    Back in the Middle Ages (the 1980s) I had a group of about ten people, male and female playing regularly. We played one dungeon for about four months and it was then that I started allowing everyone to keep their characters and started reading history in order to accomodate their increasing character strengths and abilities.

    We were also playing games on Apple ][ computers...

    Sadly, I moved out of the area we were playing in to accept a job where I have now lived for 20 years. Last I heard the group still met, though once monthly. One of the girls in our group married one of the boys (they were well-suited for each other even though I always thought their characters took out their relationship frustrations on each other) and they now have two children.

    "So, Daddy, how did you meet mommy?"
    "Actually, she cast a spell that felled an orc that was just about to kill me."

    Another one of the girls married, then divorced one of the boys -- then married another boy from the group. They have no children, which is probably a good thing if my memory about their temperment serves me

    "So how did you two meet, anyway?"
    "I was married to one knight when he came in and swept me off my feet and onto his white charger, while fighting off an underworld demon. I cast a spell of enchantment on him and the rest is history."

    Funny thing is, I'm still unmarried.

    "Sincere, erudite dungeonmaster seeks....

  • And yet... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Valiss ( 463641 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @11:00AM (#10550104) Homepage
    .... 90% of the responses from players in game is still "I roll to attack."

    I love hack n slash.

  • New round, roll for initiative! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Fractal Dice ( 696349 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @11:02AM (#10550112) Journal

    D&D really was one of those rare cases of something "new". Before the net was popular, it was a great tool for social networking for geeks. Every tech job I've ever had came not from my experience or my education, but from contacts made over the years around gaming tables.

    Alas, it's a also a good example of how success is measured differently between sellers and consumers. D&D never really went into decline around here, but once you own the main rule books and some dice, you don't _need_ anything else and so game stores moved more heavily into card games where the profits were.

    The d20 licensing scheme is very, very cool, although I have to admit that I still don't quite trust TSR/Wizards/Hasbro (their first reaction to the net was similar to the RIAA but then after an initial fan-relations-disaster they changed their tune and actually made an effort to reach out to the fans and address legitimate need to be able to share).

    It's interesting watching a second generation of gamers start to grow up (and yes, there is a large and healthy population of them). They don't have to be saddled with as much of the "it's evil!" baggage (it's still out there, but weakened as the geek have inherited the earth)

    • My younger daughter (13yo) found some of my old AD&D books and has started an interest in it. She carries the monster guide with her and uses it as an inspiration for drawing. I guess the new generation will continue where we old timers left off. Happy B-day D&D!
    • Right. You've hit on social networking, but it wasn't just for geeks. Most of my AD+D friends were blue collar, (and on the side jazz rock musicians).

      There's a long tradition of having a boring day job and thinking outside the usual football (soccer) loop.

      Yes, this stuff *is* evil. Just like Scientific American, James Randi, Martin Gardner and all those
      other wicked "freethinkers". (Hint: I'm from Norfolk UK although in Athens GR and my hero from
      there is Tom Paine). I'm all in favour of it. Get enough of t

  • DND Humor (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 17, 2004 @11:16AM (#10550162)
    ED: You see a well-groomed garden. In the middle, on a small hill, you see a gazebo.
    ERIC: A gazebo? What color is it?
    ED: (Pause) It's white, Eric.
    ERIC: How far away is it?
    ED: About 50 yards.
    ERIC: How big is it?
    ED: (Pause) It's about 30 feet across, 15 feet high, with a pointed top.
    ERIC: I use my sword to detect whether it's good.
    ED: It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo!
    ERIC: (Pause) I call out to it.
    ED: It won't answer. It's a gazebo!
    ERIC: (Pause) I sheathe my sword and draw my bow and arrows. Does it respond in any way?
    ED: No, Eric. It's a gazebo!
    ERIC: I shoot it with my bow (rolls to hit). What happened?
    ED: There is now a gazebo with an arrow sticking out of it.
    ERIC: (Pause) Wasn't it wounded?
    ED: Of course not, Eric! It's a gazebo!
    ERIC: (Whimper) But that was a plus-three arrow!
    ED: It's a gazebo, Eric, a gazebo! If you really want to try to destroy it, you could try to chop it with an axe, I suppose, or you could try to burn it, but I don't know why anybody would even try. It's a @#%$*& gazebo!
    ERIC: (Long pause - he has no axe or fire spells) I run away.
    ED: (Thoroughly frustrated) It's too late. You've awakened the gazebo, and it catches you and eats you.
    ERIC: (Reaching for his dice) Maybe I'll roll up a fire-using mage so I can avenge my paladin...

  • I haven't played AD&D in a long time (Score:5, Funny)

    by discord5 ( 798235 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @11:24AM (#10550212)

    Our AD&D sessions were always fun, back when we had too much time and no girlfriends.

    DM: "You see a hallway with three barrels"

    Player #1: "I walk to the barrels and pry one open"
    Player #2: "No wait, you idiot"
    DM: "A witch comes out of the barrel and rolls dice is preparing to cast a spell"
    Player #1: "I cast burning hands and grab her tits"
    DM: sighs "The hideous hag slaps you and continues her casting"
    Player #2: "I apologize for my companions behavior and hit her with my longsword"

    Somewhere along the line we grew up and got a life, although we all fondly remember being half drunk and playing AD&D.

  • One of my favorite tricks to pull out when shit hit the fan was the ol' Portable-Hole-placed-into-Bag-of-Holding [dndonlinegames.com] dimensional rift. :) That always spices up a boring game session.

    What other clever tricks have you crowd employed over the years?

    • Re:Old Tricks (Score:3, Interesting)

      by meringuoid ( 568297 )
      About the bag of holding... and bearing in mind I only know D&D thanks to Bioware...

      Anything placed in a bag of holding effectively weighs nothing. Zero newtons weight, zero kilograms inertial mass. So.

      Take two bags of holding, two cannonballs, two buckets, two pulleys and a length of rope. Now, put the cannonballs in the buckets, and fasten the mouths of the bags over the rims of the buckets. Fasten the buckets to the rope, and run the rope over the two pulleys with one pulley above the other. Make

      • Rationalizing magic in most fantasy worlds is impossible and the DM should slap you for trying.

        For one thing, with a multitude of readily-accessible planes, your "universe" is hardly a closed system.

        But if you insist, there is a place to draw the energy from in your scenario: The space inside the bag. Space itself is energy of a sort; I don't know how to compute it from General Relativity, but my impression is that it is a rather large amount; one bag would probably keep that going effectively indefinatel
  • http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/90046
  • All hail the whimsical, wonderfully tactile, d20. =)

  • Wives? (Score:4, Funny)

    by Himring ( 646324 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @11:39AM (#10550292) Homepage Journal
    An estimated 25,000 fans in 1,200 stores celebrated the anniversary Saturday

    And only 2 women were pissed at their husbands cuz of the event....
  • Odd, that. That might explain why our weekly Neverwinter Nights game went off without a hitch. Teamspeak + NWN + Friends = Fun.

    Heck, come to think of it, my wife finally installed it last night...

  • d4, the dreaded caltrop (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Luddite ( 808273 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @12:08PM (#10550428)

    oh the pain...

    I can remember getting up from the gaming table and finding that missing d4 with my bare left foot.

    Those damn dice were small enough to hide in a shag rug and hurt like a bastard when stepped on, (especially the early ones, cuz the corners weren't blunted)

  • "newbie" player compared to some of you... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by NeoSkandranon ( 515696 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @12:10PM (#10550436)
    I've played D&D for four or five years, started in 3ed, but at one point i did roll a 2ed character for a campaign played via instant messanger. I honetsly dont see how you 2e players manage (3 seems so much more streamlined to me, but perhaps mostly becaues i'm familiar with it)

    Anywho, I work at a bookstore, and we'v been getting materials for giveaways and displays from WotC for a while now, and in our fantasy section (which is my domain) there's a small display with forgotten realms novels and some D&D stickers and whatnot (sadly, we don't stock the game materials for two reasons: owners afraid to attract ultraconservative attention and they just wouldnt sell well)

    And by the way...if you think vi vs. emacs is a religious war, try 2ed vs. 3ed...guy I knew totally violently slammed 3 for being "simple" and overpowered and whatnot...too bad he didn't have half his facts straight /me shrugs I WILL say this though ,the 2e treasure and monster manuals (esp the demons and devils) were absolutely badass, and my group translated those into 3e as needed for extra kick

  • Obligatory Chick (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 17, 2004 @12:27PM (#10550517)
    here [chick.com]

  • Gary Gygax (Score:5, Informative)

    by serutan ( 259622 ) <snoopdoug@RABBIT ... minus herbivore> on Sunday October 17, 2004 @01:41PM (#10550860) Homepage
    Sadly, the article only makes a passing reference to the patriarch of D&D. I guess ownership is everything nowadays. GameBanshee.com [gamebanshee.com] has a nice interview with Gygax [gamebanshee.com] accompanied by lots of D&D artwork.

    • Re:Gary Gygax (Score:3, Informative)

      by Lord_Dweomer ( 648696 )
      I agree. I used to drive an hour every weekend up to Lake Geneva, WI to play with the Gygax family at the Game Guild. Sadly I think the store went under, and I know the Gygax's haven't exactly made it rich off D&D.

      There really is something to be said for sitting at a table discussing Bigby's line of spells and finding out the guy sitting next to you played the original Bigby, and the guy across the table played the original Mordenkainen.

      That was hands down the best group of gamers I've ever gamed with

  • D&D == Mental Exercise (Score:4, Insightful)

    by LaCosaNostradamus ( 630659 ) <`moc.liam' `ta' `sumadartsoNasoCaL'> on Sunday October 17, 2004 @01:41PM (#10550865) Journal
    D&D was always a wonderful exercise of mentality -- specifically, visual imagination, numerical computing, and social foresight.

    Science Fiction and D&D are wonderful jump-starts to young intellects. The downside to them is that they are elitist and promote insular behavior.

    Now collected around age 40, the people I knew who played D&D often still do, and on average the game didn't help or harm them ... it was just another hobby in life. All those dire predictions during the 1980s about D&D's harm had come to naught ... and in fact, all those worried parents instead did far more damage than D&D ever did by working all the time instead of keeping a presence at home with their children.

  • Waitaminnit! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Infonaut ( 96956 ) <infonaut@gmail.com> on Sunday October 17, 2004 @02:37PM (#10551197) Homepage Journal
    So are you saying that the D&D computer games and novels are based on some sort of weird setup where people sit together in a room and socialize while throwing dice and fondling small painted pieces of lead?

    How truly bizarre.

    In all seriousness, D&D deserves kudos for being the icebreaker that allowed fantasy to break into the mainstream of American culture. I vividly remember my first exposure to the game, way back in 1980. I was in Junior High School, and I encountered this odd group of kids talking about whether Asmodeus could defeat Orcus.

    A few days later I found myself rolling up my first fighter (yeah, my imagination needed a kick-start) and going on my first dungeon crawl. Through D&D (and a host of other games, many of which I prefered to D&D for game mechanics) I met some of my best friends, and found an "in crowd" of my own. Of course nobody else thought of us as the "in crowd" but that didn't matter. We had a lot of fun and exercised our imaginations.

    As others have stated, the specifics of Basic vs. Advanced, 2nd Edition vs. 3rd Edition, etc. don't really matter. What matters is that D&D opened the door for everything from Aftermath! [pamedia.com] to Call of Cthulhu [callofcthulhu.com] to Neverwinter Nights [bioware.com] and the DragonLance [dl3e.com] world.

    My cap is off to Dave Arneson and Gary Gygax for getting the ball rolling, and for the countless game designers, module builders, DMs, and players who have brought fantasy to life for so many people over these 30 years.

  • D&D Is Evil! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by serutan ( 259622 ) <snoopdoug@RABBIT ... minus herbivore> on Sunday October 17, 2004 @02:46PM (#10551255) Homepage
    Back when the D&D-is-evil crap started, I researched news stories about teenagers who committed suicide because they got kicked off the swim team, blew their 4.0 GPA, broke up with girl/boyfriend, parents were assholes, etc. I read that the suicide rate among RPG players was below that of the general population.

    That was back in the pre-Internet days when these things took time to find. Here is an article [religioustolerance.org] that summarizes some of that info. I used to keep some actual numbers in my head to toss out whenever some cross-waving idiot blamed RPGs for the ills of the world. If the anti-D&D crusaders actually looked up suicide statistics, they would probably be campaigning against report cards, team sports, the senior prom, and a lot of other time-honored institutions. In the real world, fantasy gaming is generally harmless fun.

  • Don't start planning for D&D's 35th birthday (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Dracos ( 107777 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @05:54PM (#10552292)

    First, some history.

    TSR originally published D&D. In the early to mid 90's TSR was publishing a lot of support material (modules, sourcebooks, settings) to keep sales up. As time went on, the quality and sales of this material went way down. TSR eventually owed $30 million to various debtors, primarily their printers. In 1997, WOTC bought TSR with the profits from Magic: The Gathering. Then Pokemon happened. In 1999, a struggling Hasbro bought WOTC to get the Pokemon cash cow. D&D Third Edition was released in 2000, after a year delay, under the d20 license. In 2003, D&D 3.5 was released.

    WOTC had an understanding of RPGs, because the founders actually played them. Hasbro, on the other hand, seems to only understand board games for kids. Pokemon dried up, and they paniced. this is the big reason for 3.5, not "fixing things".

    Not long after 3.5 came out, rumors began circulating that work had already begun on 4th Edition, and that it would not inherit the d20 license. If true, this would cripple all the companies that take advantage of the d20 license. The d20 license, by the way, is not granted in perpetuity, and can be altered at will according to the licensor's whim (look up the Book of Erotic Fantasy for proof).

    Obviously, what Hasbro doesn't get is that RPG core books have a quite lengthy product cycle, but their scramble for income forces them to ignore it.

    When I asked the general manager of my local game store what he though of the 4th edition rumors, the first thing he said was "I'm not going to buy it." (He was already annoyed at the existence of 3.5). Of course, he'd put it on his store shelves, he just won't personally own it.

    A friend of mine, who still plays M:TG, has a conspiracy theory based on Hasbro realizing their mistake in buying WOTC and making the best of it. He believes Hasbro is quietly moving all of their debt into WOTC, and eventually plan to spin it off into its own entity or try to sell it. Good for Hasbro, but would be the end of D&D. I don't completely buy it, but the way big business is run nowadays, it wouldn't surprise me.

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