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Classic Games (Games) NES (Games)

Retro Gaming Gains A Savior? 79

Posted by Zonk from the new-nes dept.
1up.com has a look at a new slimline NES console made by a company named Messiah. They hope the console, named Generation NEX, will be able to reach consumers in retail stores. From the article: "We think our products can be mainstream, it's just a matter of finding and reaching those people. Everyone loves the NES, and grew up playing it...We're hoping to get Generation NEX into mainstream retailers. We think that'll help out a lot. It's kind of like one of those impulse buys, people aren't searching for it but when they come across it they'll be like 'whoa, I want that!'...The greatest challenge was incorporating all of the extra features into the hardware...It's quite easy just to make a clone that works with the existing stuff, but then when you incorporate the built-in wireless and all the other stuff that went into this hardware ... That was the biggest challenge, getting everything to work together."
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Retro Gaming Gains A Savior? More

Retro Gaming Gains A Savior?

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  • With the Revolution, PS3, and Xbox 360 coming out soon, won't this disappear without a trace?

    It really does sound like emulation with a different box... especially with reguards to the "Contra with better graphics" line in TFA.

    Also, if people aren't gonna browse for it, and are gonna stumble upon it by accident, what's to say they'll buy it?

    Sell it to me, sell it to me...
    • Not emulation.

      Reverse-engineered backward compatibility, it looks like.

      Either that, or they're wasting a hell of a lot of hardware just for 16 color support. :D

      It sounds like they've come up with an intelligent way of taking advantage of the emulation craze without resorting to illegal methods, all the while making a nice product for gamers.

      I like it, if only because...dude, wireless NES controllers.

    • Re:Bad timing? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by ElleyKitten ( 715519 )
      With the Revolution, PS3, and Xbox 360 coming out soon, won't this disappear without a trace?

      I am SO buying this. I think there's enough people who are too poor for the new generation or are pissed off at modern games/game companies in general that this thing will make some money.

    • Re:Bad timing? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by badasscat ( 563442 ) <basscadet75@NOspAm.yahoo.com> on Tuesday August 23, 2005 @07:55AM (#13378247)
      It really does sound like emulation with a different box...

      It's not emulation, it's what people in the know call a "famiclone". In fact, there are probably dozens of similar systems out on the market - if you look up famicom systems on Ebay (or NES systems) 99% of the results will be this thing or similar models, not real Nintendo systems.

      The Famicom was reverse-engineered years ago. Nintendo hates it but there's nothing they can do about it. These sorts of consoles have been on the market for probably a decade now. Interestingly enough, the vast majority of those plug and play TV game systems (like the Intellivision 25 in 1, the Atari 10 in 1 and Activision 10 in 1, etc.) are built using a "famicom on a chip" - same basic idea. They're using the famicom to emulate whatever system they're supposed to be.

      Nintendo does go after "pirate" consoles every once in a while, but these are systems with Nintendo software pre-installed on them. They always carefully word their press releases so that it looks like the console itself is illegal, though, and the media usually plays along. It's a scare tactic.

      Frankly, I don't see why 1up thinks this model is so special, unless this is just the first they've heard that such things exist. That doesn't really make it newsworthy, though.

      (Sometimes news isn't really about how new something is but about letting people know about something they probably don't already know about... but the fact is famiclones have been on the market for a long time and are neither going away nor are they headed for the mainstream.)
      • I think it's somewhat noteworthy cause it looks like an old NES, and people seem to like the wireless controllers they have been selling. It's not some shoddy Asian knockoff, but people that care about what they are making.
      • Nintendo does go after "pirate" consoles every once in a while, but these are systems with Nintendo software pre-installed on them. They always carefully word their press releases so that it looks like the console itself is illegal, though, and the media usually plays along. It's a scare tactic.


        If the console contains Nintendo software preinstalled, the console IT IS illegal, not just some dark PR move by Nintendo. It is not a scare tactic.
        • What about the NES I've seen on Ebay a few times? It has a CD drive so you just throw in a cd full of roms and you can play any of them on the console on the TV in the living room. Is that legal? It doesn't have any games on it but they make it pretty clear that you use a CD to play games, not original carts.

          • [This modified NES] has a CD drive so you just throw in a cd full of roms and you can play any of them on the console on the TV in the living room. Is that legal?

            No reason why it wouldn't be [pdroms.de].

          • I tried digging up some info on this and couldn't. Is this like a standard NES console with a CD-ROM interface adapted to it, or a whole new console that is a clone of the NES?

            A CD-ROM adapter would be AWESOME to say the least. Hell, a flash adapter would be even better. You could get a lot of games on a 16meg flash card these days.
          • This is not illegal 1> it does not supply any of the ROMS. 2> Downloaded ROMs are not illegal if you own the original game. Technically the ROM falls under the backup and fair usage policy for game ownership. Downloading and using a ROM of a cart you do not own *IS* illegal.
      • The difference is that until recently most famiclones have had Famicom cartridge slots, and all either had (usually pirate) games built in, or supplied on a cartridge, and they all used a DB-9 variant of the controller port.

        This console and another one (the Yoby?) are the newest generation which are (for lack of a better word) "nesclones". Not only do they take genuine USA version NES carts, they also have genuine USA NES-style controller ports. This one is especially notable because of the case design.

      • Strange that they'd use it for the Intellivision 25 in 1 system - the famicom was an 8 bit system and the Intellivision was a base 10 system (yes, you heard right - 10 bit words). I suppose you could just use 2 byte words and ignore the top 6 bits like the PC emulator does if the famcom could handle it (some old consoles couldn't handle anything larger than a word, but I may be thinking 1970s tech like the 2600).

        • Re:Intellivision? (Score:3, Interesting)

          by kingsmedley ( 796795 )

          the Intellivision was a base 10 system

          No, it wasn't. The Intellivision's CPU was actually a 16-bit processor. The common misconception of the Intellivision as a 10-bit system comes from the fact that since the majority of it's commands were 10 bits long, the game cartridges used 10-bit ROMs. The CPU also handled 8-, 14-, and 16-bit commands and data. When the occasional 14- or 16-bit command was used, it would be stored in two 10-bit words (a bidecle) with the excess bits ignored.

          I should point out also tha
          • I had read this article, actually - I also read somewhere else that the cassettes stored all the data in decles, which makes sense with the prototyping on 2 8 bit EPROMs and only using the upper 2 bits of the high byte EPROM, but it's entirely possible I'm reading between the lines by just assuming the CPU ran in 10 bit mode all the time.

  • Heracy! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by el_womble ( 779715 ) on Tuesday August 23, 2005 @04:51AM (#13377782) Homepage
    Wireless NES controllers, rumble protocol, 16 colours!!!! Heracy!

    The whole point of the NES controller was that it was built to last. POed with a game, throw the controller out of a window. New games for the NES. WTF? Unless they actively pay me to take this console off their hands I see no reason why I should buy this instead of a current gen system, or an original 'cool' NES. And lets face it, modern emulators do a better job as they play current games as well.

    If they're building this because they can... all power to them. If they're building this to market, I have two words: Market Research.

    • Not Heresy (Re:Heracy!) (Score:1, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      "Wireless NES controllers, rumble protocol, 16 colours!!!! Heracy!"

      Generation Nex will have controller ports that will support your good old rectangular controllers, dogbones, Maxes, and Advantages. Since none of those were wireless or offered rumble, there's no need to suck your panties into your rectum.

      "The whole point of the NES controller was that it was built to last. POed with a game, throw the controller out of a window."

      Yeah, smart console makers tend to make their hardware durable enough to withst

      • Generation Nex will have controller ports that will support your good old rectangular controllers, dogbones, Maxes, and Advantages. Since none of those were wireless or offered rumble, there's no need to suck your panties into your rectum.

        Does nobody remember the NES Satellite, a wireless adapter for NES controllers?

        Better if you don't care that you're not playing your real NES carts on your TV with your real NES controllers. (Yes, expensive alternatives and loopholes exist that counter this statemen

        • The satellite only really moved the 'console' closer to you. It is a box to connect your controllers to. Thought that and/or the four score gave the advantage of being able to sit across the room on the couch and play games.
    • If you want to see new NES-generation games, go to your local super store like Target or Wal-Mart (if you're in the U.S.) and pick up one of those 10-Star-Wars-games-inside-an-R2D2-controller gadgets. Those types of all-in-one handhelds tend to run on NES emulation chips (or something similar).
      • The Street Fighter II version runs a Megadrive/Genesis chip.

      • go to your local super store like Target or Wal-Mart (if you're in the U.S.) and pick up one of those 10-Star-Wars-games-inside-an-R2D2-controller gadgets. Those types of all-in-one handhelds tend to run on NES emulation chips (or something similar).

        But can I reflash the system's ROM chips with Solar Wars or other NES homebrew programs from, say, nesdev.com?

    • One good reason to get this (if the price is right) is if you have an original frontloading NES, you have to perform the NES blowjob to get carts to play sometimes. Toploading NESs without this problem can be hard to find.

  • 10NES and the hardware patent (Score:5, Interesting)

    by screwballicus ( 313964 ) on Tuesday August 23, 2005 @04:58AM (#13377796)
    Wouldn't this necessitate that they duplicate the system-side functionality of the 10NES [wikipedia.org] chip in such a way as to violate Nintendo's patent? Seeing as precedent stands in Nintendo's favour regarding the replication of cart-side 10NES functionality, with Tengen having lost its case, if the patent is still valid, one would think that this hardware would not be legal in the United States. But has the 10NES patent expired? Or do carts function without 10NES hardware on the system side, though the reverse is not the case?

  • Yawn. (Score:1)

    by torpor ( 458 )
    Wake me up when I can download (for free) the Generation NEX development kit, and can find a way to get my home-brew apps on cartridge format for cheap.

    If you want retro-gaming resurrection, look no further than GPX32, Gamepark et al [gp32x.com], yo.

  • Geek orgasm (Score:4, Interesting)

    by RyoShin ( 610051 ) <<tukaro> <at> <gmail.com>> on Tuesday August 23, 2005 @07:53AM (#13378241) Homepage Journal
    I could see this succeeding or failing.

    One thing I didn't see in the article is if they had Nintendo's blessing in all of this. If not, Nintendo could potentially swoop in and take them out, or just take over the company on threat or stopping the product altogether. I assume they haven't gotten this far without some legal talking, but I can't be sure to the extent of that.

    The system must debut at an equal price or lower price to the GBA SP at the time. Even in the updated form, the console can't match the graphics of the GBA (can it even match the GBC?), and don't even try to compare it to the current generation of consoles.

    Having some form of a developer kit would really boost it. Those toying with the gaming industry would get some first hand experience at 'easier' coding. A fairly inexpensive dev kit, including a cartridge that either hooks up to the computer while in the NEX or can download from the computer and then be put into NEX, software for writing games (and perhaps something like RPG Maker,) and a 'getting started' book would be awesome.

    Allow the software to be downloaded for free, but unless they have some other input device (which I also didn't see in the article,) you'll only be able to use a cartridge for that.

    Re-release the classics. Chances are that not many people have NES games, so they'll have to release something, or many people will have nothing to play on it. Since the capacity of memory per area has greatly increased since the days of the original NES, take advantage of that: offer extras, if possible.

    Alternatively, the article mentioned that, with the expand graphics and rumble support, they could update many games. That would be awesome (Four Swords in the original Hyrule?), but if you have the memory storage to allow it, include the original version of the game for those feeling nostalgic.

    I see this console being bought mainly by the older generation. Many of the NES games were quick pick-up-and-play games. Most working adults who loved games as a kid don't have the 80 hours to put into massive games, and this would give them a great alternative. These adults will then share the console with their kids, who will gain an appreciation for gameplay over graphics, perhaps spearheading an improvement in games for the current consoles.

    Or not. In any case, I hope that this system comes to frutility (from the looks of it, we're much more likely to get the NEX than the Phantom.) If the price is right, I can see myself easily picking this up.
    • I could see this succeeding or failing.

      Wow! Are you a psychic or something?

    • If not, Nintendo could potentially swoop in and take them out, or just take over the company on threat or stopping the product altogether.

      Nope. Patents that would protect the NES are long expired. Famiclones are legal as long as there aren't pirated games included. Nintendo could try to get Messiah to stop, and Messiah could legally tell Nintendo to "fuck off".
      • Okay, I wasn't certain on the patent status. Even so, if Nintendo felt threatened, they could raise a lawsuit. Yes, the lawsuit would eventually fail, but the legal fees by the company that makes NEX could put them out of business. However, I know that Nintendo has done some odd things, but I don't think they're that type of company.

  • That's pretty pricey, considering the last NES knock-off I bought for 25 RMB (roughly 3 USD).

    Of course I live in China, and one of them was dead on arrival (or they gave me the wrong power cord, I don't know).. and they didn't have wireless. But the girlfriend and I still logged many dozens of hours on Adventure Island 4 and Dr Mario (both on multigame carts that cost 4 RMB or 50 cents).

    If these prove popular, maybe I'll start offering to send people grey-market NES clones from China.

    Shameless plug:

    • Any luck with those knockoffs? I have an older NES, still works 'ok' but at some point I'd like to get some new hardware to replace. A friend of mine bought one from Ebay, but he mentioned the controller had a bit of a delay. He mentioned people were working on a converter for the NES controller.
      • I'd wait for the one in the article. I bought a pocket Famicom from Lik-Sang and it works, but there are a few problems with it. These problems are because it is designed to take Famicom cartridges/controllers and not US cartridges/controllers:

        The thing is designed so that Famicom cartriges will nestle tightly inside it. Unfortunately, when I'm playing with the adaptor for US cartridges this is not the case. I have to stay pretty still or the cartridge will flop around and lose its connection, which c

    • I'm looking for an NES clone but one with standard controller ports for my old bricks. My old NES is blinking even after a new 72-pin, and I'm looking for an easy way to get my old Super Mario 3 to work but without those cheesy knockoff controllers.
      • You ever hear of this trick? Insert cart into NES as close to the front of the system as possible. I usually do the above at the same time as pushing down to make sure it just clears the front of the machine. I clean my machine as often as possible to stay clean. I still have an original working NES. As you probably know the contacts on those 72-pin become bent from inserting the carts which leads to the contacts not lining up. The other thing I sometimes do is clean off the contacts on the carts themse

  • Law suit pending? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by PhotoBoy ( 684898 ) on Tuesday August 23, 2005 @07:59AM (#13378267)
    I'd be willing to bet given the massive success Nintendo has had with their re-release of old NES games for the GBA and the NES-coloured GBAs, Nintendo will be watching this very closely to see if they can stop it.

    With one of Revolution's biggest known features being backwards compatibility right back to the NES I'm sure Nintendo won't want a competing product out there that might cost them a Revolution sale.
    • Doens't the Revolution have backwards compatibility "with enhancements"? I thought it was more than just straight emulation.

      • Yeah they've made some hints about that, but they were pretty enigmatic about it so I'm not sure if it means they've just added some filtering to remove jagged edges and removed sprite flickering like some emulators do or if they plan on actually re-writing the games with new graphics.

        I think Nintendo's time would be better spent making new games rather than polishing up old ones, but we'll have to wait and see I suppose.
    • I don't think this would be that zero sum. This would not stop people from buying new GBA releases from Nintendo but it might serve to make older releases more popular.

      In fact Nintendo should be watching them to see whats popular and release those games on GBA.
    • Nah...you need NES cartridges to play in this machine. I'm sure most people will prefer to download the games through the Revolution and play with the fancy new controller rather than go searching for old carts on Ebay (or, if you're very lucky, a local used game store). This is for the "hardcore retro" who either have a large NES collection already, or are willing to go out of their way just to get the cool factor of playing on a good approximation of the original hardware.

      Now that I think about it, i
  • Wasted opportunity; they include stereo capability, but limit it to possible future games. If you're rebuilding the hardware from scratch, it shouldn't be hard to pan the existing audio channels subtly across the stereo spectrum. I don't see why compatability would be an issue either, if it's done on the output rather than the input end.

    If it's just for the sake of detail accuracy, well. They're already screwing with that. And likewise if they were to implement such a feature, it would be a piece of cake to
    • If I recall, though, you only have 4 or 5 different "voices" (modifiable wave types) to produce sounds within the NES. Panning seperate sounds may not be too bad, but you'd want to make sure you had a seperate map for different games; I don't know if a one-size-fits-all approach would work here.

      As well, many games utilized the same voice channel for music as well as sound effects - hence, you get a cut-out on a music channel (usually a harmony) when certain SFX are played... this would mess with a channel-
    • What would be the point? The games themselves were written with mono sound, there are no "left" or "right" sounds coded into the games. While you might be able to split the (what, 4?) sound channels between left and right, deciding which side the sound comes out would be wholly arbitrary and convey no gameplay information.

      The code on the cartridge cannot be more than the sum of its parts.
    • Speaking of wireless, I have some wireless NES controllers in a box right next to me. "DOUBLE PLAYER [answers.com]" in big blue font, they have the Acclaim logo on them. Huh. (I haven't looked at them in a while.)
      Of course, they're the type that need a line of sight to the receiver, I'm sure, but still.. wireless.
      The page I linked to says "The technology was found by users to be highly unreliable." I don't remember. It's been a long long time. :)

      And a NES can be modded to have stereo sound [zyx.com], so I've read.

  • Preorders available (Score:3, Funny)

    by cgenman ( 325138 ) on Tuesday August 23, 2005 @09:04AM (#13378605) Homepage
    Lik-Sang is taking preorders [lik-sang.com] for 60 US dollars.

    Of course, that's with one wired controller and no hard drive...

    Shipping date is set for the end of august.

    • Of course, that's with one wired controller and no hard drive...

      So where can I get the model with a hard drive so that I can test my own homebrew programs without having to rely entirely on Nintendulator?

  • Revolution (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Digital Vomit ( 891734 ) on Tuesday August 23, 2005 @09:05AM (#13378608) Homepage Journal
    I'm wondering what chance this has when Nintendo's new console will also be able to play old NES and SNES games (via wireless download)?

    Price the Messiah at $50 with games from $5 to $10 and it might find its niche. Providing a free SDK and selling programmable carts would help, too.

    • If you think this had a chance from the start, I think you're mistaken. This will only appeal to the hardcore NES crowd, and most of them are either neck-deep in emulation or already have a refurbished NES from Gamestop or eBay.

    • Re:Revolution (Score:2, Informative)

      by Dark_Lord_Prime ( 899914 )
      Some of us still have our (large) libraries of NES carts, y'know.

      Revolution will support downloading of old NES and SNES games via your internet connection, some free and some for pay, according to the last thing I read from Nintendo on it.

      I've read nothing at all that mentions whether you get to -keep- those downloaded games(saved to a memory card, say), or if you have to download them --and possibly pay again-- each time you want to play them.

      I still have my NESv2 (top-loader model), but it certainly cann
  • Isn't a name like Generation NEX going to provoke a lawsuit from say Pepsi who had the slogan Generaton neXt?

    • Isn't a name like Generation NEX going to provoke a lawsuit from say Pepsi who had the slogan Generaton neXt?

      "You can do it; we can help" was originally the tagline for Nicorette nicotine gum; now it's for The Home Depot home improvement stores. Given that Pepsi has since gone through "The Joy of Cola" and "The Joy of Pepsi" to the current "It's the Cola", I don't see a problem.

  • Seems cooler than it is (Score:5, Insightful)

    by rAiNsT0rm ( 877553 ) on Tuesday August 23, 2005 @11:00AM (#13379553) Homepage
    I've covered videogames for some years, and my initial reaction was that this... sweet! but then I thought about it more. Having programmed a bit for the NES I can personally attest to the difficulty and hurdles to overcome.

    A system that has these same features and accepts a cheap flash memory like SD that runs it's own 2D games utilizing an easy, modern programming language and has the ability to run NES games in emulation would go much further and be able to be made much cheaper.

    This thing is headed for failure either because of poor market research or lawyer costs trying to save their asses. Any serious older gen gamer is going to buy a Revolution and get the same thing but with so much more.

    Gaming in general needs to go back to 2D. 3D is great for FPS' but that's about it. 3D has been a square peg in a round hole for years and what kills me is that companies cling to it as tightly as possible. Ever notice why the GB/GBA does so well? People want FUN games with SIMPLE controls, whoever thinks that a controller with 18+ buttons and three directional inputs is a good thing is an idiot.

  • Not a legal problem... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Gogo0 ( 877020 )
    I didnt Read the Fancy Article, but I see a lot of people speculating that this company will go under after Nintendo crushes them with their legal might.

    Not going to happen, because...

    Nintendo's patent on the NES is over. There have always been Famiclones out there, but now we are seeing very nice ones being released. Wonder why? Because they are legal and products companies want to succeed in the face of other Famiclones.
  • Maybe they could tell us...

    What Would Jesus Play?
  • for copying the look and feel of the original Nintendo, even if they don't get hit for copying the hardware. Still cool through, since real NES' are getting so scarce that this may be cheaper.
    • i think Nintendo should NOT sue... instead they should buy this company up, and use this console design for the Revolution! :) i think it'd be a big hit

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