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Retro Studios Stepping Back From Metroid For A Bit

Zonk posted more than 7 years ago | from the not-plugging-away dept.

Nintendo 72

Retro Studios, the makers of the games in the Metroid Prime series, has announced they'll be stepping back from the games for a bit now that Corruption is in stores. Comments from project director Mark Pacini discuss that decision and their interaction with the Wiimote: "I'm sure that there will be other titles created but as far as Retro Studios is concerned, we're taking a break for a little bit. We started with the core ideas of the game ... but we did not receive the information about the Wii controller until well into development. So we got a big surprise, of, hey, this is what we're going to do for the next console. Many things had to be refactored, but actually many things fell right into place. The Wii remote enables us to do things that we hadn't previously done in other Metroid games."

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While saying... (2, Funny)

Philotic (957984) | more than 7 years ago | (#20427883)

"Whoa there, Samus, put the arm cannon down, we don't want any trouble..."

Re:While saying... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20428119)

what a tiny, meatless, pointless article that was.
waste of time.

nothing to see here.

One for the books (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20427907)

Flappin' them jacks, eh??

Re:One for the books (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20428087)

Diggin that poontang, uh, poutine, ay??

So reaction is mixed (2, Insightful)

techpawn (969834) | more than 7 years ago | (#20428055)

They where mad that they had to redo things but other things worked better than they thought? I'd rather them take a break and come back to make an even better game

Re:So reaction is mixed (1)

moderatorrater (1095745) | more than 7 years ago | (#20428839)

I'm wondering how Nintendo justifies not giving them full information about the wiimote from day one. This was a title that was expected to be a mover for the console, the last thing nintendo should want is the producer saying something like "we got the wiimote partway through and it hurt us."

Re:So reaction is mixed (1)

zolaar (764683) | more than 7 years ago | (#20429385)

Games have a development cycle of 2-3 years, especially top-notch games like Metroid. Considering I'm fairly sure I remember reading someone had noticed changes to the wiimote as recently as a few months before launch, it makes perfect sense that the design/layout/API/etc. wasn't finalized by the time MP3 was in full dev cycle.

Them's the breaks. Sucks? Sure. Unreasonable? Not at all.

Diversification is good (1)

Egdiroh (1086111) | more than 7 years ago | (#20428135)

Doing other games should be good for them. There is a finite limit to the number of sequels you can make without having new ideas in the game. Other games with different premise will challenge them to do different things some of which might be very good to bring to a future series of metroid games. The way I see it, them taking a break keeps metroid from getting stale. I wish them well with all their future endeavors, (unless they get sold to microsoft)

Re:Diversification is good (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20428257)

I agree completely. I think one of the best ways to lose good developers/artists/etc. is to keep making them work on the same thing, e.g. what has happened to Blizzard Entertainment in the last few years. Eventually, they want to work on *something else*; so I say take your time, we'll wait for more Metroid.

Finally, a Metroid story on Slashdot (5, Insightful)

Ang31us (1132361) | more than 7 years ago | (#20428191)

It's about time!

First of all, MP3C is a game made for gamers...it uses every button on the Wii-mote and Nunchuck AND uses motion sensitivity AND aiming. You already know that the play control is better than any console experience (my trusty mouse is still more accurate). I will NEVER play a FPS using a Xbox 360 or PS3 controller...those controllers SUCK for FPS. In a single-player first-person shooter/adventure I would rather be aiming at the screen with my arm-cannon than moving a mouse because I feel like I'm in the game AND it's sooo much fun!

Secondly, Super Mario Strikers Charged is also a deep and complex game that uses almost every button, function, and feature on the Wii-mote and Nunchuck. Play it online against some highly-ranked players and see how many ways there are to pass, shoot, score, and play defense.

The talk about Nintendo ignoring their hardcore gamer base is utter nonsense. I love both of these games as much as I love Zelda, Resident Evil 4, and Madden on my Wii. Everyone knows Wii Sports is still da bomb...I still box and play tennis and baseball when friends come over (right after the game of Strikers). Put one of those "casual gamers" up against me in Wii Sports tennis or boxing and I'll dispatch them faster than you can say "Nintendo wins the console war."

Re:Finally, a Metroid story on Slashdot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20428255)

Hells yeah!! Wii strokin' time!

Re:Finally, a Metroid story on Slashdot (2, Insightful)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 7 years ago | (#20428323)

First, my credentials as a lover of FPS games...I have been playing FPS regularly since Catacomb 3-D [wikipedia.org] came on the scene...in that time, I have played countless FPS games on the PC. My first console FPS that involved actual aiming (Wolfenstein 3D/Doom on SNES don't really count in this instance) was Goldeneye.

Now. While I think for FPS NOTHING will EVER top a solid keyboard/mouse combination, I will also say that the 360 controller is sufficient for playing an FPS. It takes a while, I had to play through four or five first person shooters between Xbox and PS2 to get the hang of using a controller...while I will never be as good with a controller as I am with a K/M combo, I can hold my own in a multiplayer game.

Don't discredit the controller just because it's harder to use...it simply requires a different skill set. Once you get used to it, it works well enough. Again, you can't have the same accuracy and control as you do with a mouse and keyboard, but given enough time you will get comfortable enough with it to be able to just pick up and go.

Re:Finally, a Metroid story on Slashdot (1)

seebs (15766) | more than 7 years ago | (#20428497)

I think it's quite possible to get used to analog stick aiming enough not to hate it in games that were built for it, but it seems to me that the pointing devices will always win.

The comparison here isn't K/M vs. wiimote, but wiimote vs. analog stick, and I think the wiimote wins hands down.

Re:Finally, a Metroid story on Slashdot (1)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 7 years ago | (#20428537)

agreed...I just like planting seeds wherever I can:-) I was once a "K/M elitist", and luckily someone convinced me to give it a shot and showed me the error of my ways...I hate to think of the games I would have missed had I never been willing to play an FPS on a console...

But yeah...Wiimote would likely be better (I don't know firsthand though...never played red steel, and haven't gotten a copy of MP3 yet)

Re:Finally, a Metroid story on Slashdot (2, Interesting)

Ang31us (1132361) | more than 7 years ago | (#20428761)

Skip RedSteel...the play control sucks ass. Once you moved your WiiMote anywhere near the sides of (or off) the screen, the whole screen goes into a spin (your character is "turning" even though you're "aiming"). I got such bad vertigo from it that I gave away my Wii launch copy to my younger brother so he could play it on his own Wii.

Definitely check out Resident Evil 4 and especially Metroid Prime 3 Corruption using the WiiMote. In RE4, you can't run and shoot at the same time (my only criticism of the game). MP3C has everything you could possibly want in an FPS. Both games feel like you're playing an arcade shooter with a lightgun in your living room...and a big-screen TV with progressive scan makes it EVEN BETTER!

Re:Finally, a Metroid story on Slashdot (1)

Pearson (953531) | more than 7 years ago | (#20431645)

You're admitting that you want a copy of an MP3 - on the internet?! You fool! The RIAA has spies everywhere!

Re:Finally, a Metroid story on Slashdot (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 7 years ago | (#20432865)

Personally I think the analog stick just doesn't work well for aiming since you can't have both quick turning and fine aiming for larger distances. Solution? Make the enemies larger. 10m ants are hard to miss, even with analog stick precision. That's why I don't mind stick aiming in Earth Defence Force 2 but do mind it almost everywhere else.

Re:Finally, a Metroid story on Slashdot (2, Insightful)

Ang31us (1132361) | more than 7 years ago | (#20428653)

Yup, the analog stick on the 360 and PS3 controllers are definitely harder to use in FPSes. I can't hit a moving target when I stand still. I can't even hit a still target that's a few feet away without aiming past it 2 or 3 times before I get the crosshair lined up correctly using any joystick. How am I supposed to hit a target while I run, strafe, and jump around to avoid his shots?

"It works well enough" is not good enough for me. I need to be able to get a head shot in Resident Evil 4 on a moving target 100 yards away using a handgun.

I think that "different skill set" you refer to is patience...honestly, I don't have the patience increase my skill at aiming using such a blatantly inferior control scheme. The analog joystick is to aiming as the digital t-pad is to driving.

Re:Finally, a Metroid story on Slashdot (1)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 7 years ago | (#20428693)

I will tell you the secret. It's very simple, and it will seem very obvious, but sit and think about it for a minute and it will make sense to you.

Feather-light touch with the sensitivity cranked. Trust me.

Re:Finally, a Metroid story on Slashdot (1)

Ang31us (1132361) | more than 7 years ago | (#20428955)

I do trust you and what you suggest definitely makes all the sense in the world when using an analog joystick to aim.

Think about what have you done with your analog joystick by turning up the sensitivity and using feather-light touches to aim where you want. You have essentially turned it into a controller you have to "touch" ever so slightly to get the crosshair to move to its desired target. Does that sound like an analog or a digital aiming device? This is how we used to drive in racing games on the NES. Do you see why I believe that the analog joystick is to aiming as the digital t-pad is to driving?

In MP3C, you can circle-strafe around one enemy with your left hand while you aim at a DIFFERENT enemy one with your right hand. You can even jump and run while you circle strafe and aim, all while continuously peppering your target with accurate shots as intuitively as aiming your Wii-mote at the screen. What are you still doing here reading this? Run to the store and buy your copy now! ;-)

Re:Finally, a Metroid story on Slashdot (1)

CronoCloud (590650) | more than 7 years ago | (#20430223)

I've done something similar but the amount of touch(actual movement of the stick) I use varies by how far away the target is from the aiming reticule. It's a little for near ones, more for ones further away and all the way if I want to turn around fast, In other words the stick is still analog because you don't use "light movements" for everything.

Re:Finally, a Metroid story on Slashdot (1)

Ang31us (1132361) | more than 7 years ago | (#20432813)

My point is that "tapping" and "touching" a joystick on an FPS sucks when compared to the fluid movement and accuracy of your arm aiming at a screen or the mouse.

I would also argue that old school FPS gamers who grew up on mouse-based aiming on the PC (the platform that gave birth to the genre) should turn their noses up at the mere suggestion that they pick up a gamepad with a joystick for a FPS. The N64, GC, Xbox, Xbox 360, PS2, and PS3 controllers are a leap back in play control for the FPS genre.

Re:Finally, a Metroid story on Slashdot (1)

CronoCloud (590650) | more than 7 years ago | (#20438855)

okay if "true analog" is so much better then why keep using WASD? Keyboards aren't analog.

Personally I have found that in FPS's designed for the console the right analog stick is fine for aiming. It's the PC ports where it doesn't work so well. In that case I plug the mouse in, but continue to use the dual shock for movement.

Re:Finally, a Metroid story on Slashdot (1)

Ang31us (1132361) | more than 7 years ago | (#20439815)

The keyboard is good for running, because FPS players have always run full-speed since the days of Wolfenstein and Doom...no analog necessary for that.

The discussion has been about analog aiming and how the Xbox 360 and PS3 controllers compare to the Wii-Mote and mouse.

Re: WASD + Mouse vs. Wiimote + Nunchuck.... (1)

trdrstv (986999) | more than 7 years ago | (#20465815)

okay if "true analog" is so much better then why keep using WASD? Keyboards aren't analog.

Honestly I have no idea. My hope is that the Wiimote + Nunchuck combo will meet its' potential and be superior to the Keyboard + Mouse set up. Quite simply WASD is inferior to Analog control, however in FPS games precision aiming is the more important function which the mouse trumps an analog stick.

In a perfect world we'd have the precision aiming of the Wiimote to at least match mouse pointer control and we'd have a good analog stick controlling movement so you can Run/Walk/Sneak appropriately, based on how you use the stick.

So Far Metroid Prime 3 is the closest to achieving this, however I've read good things about the controls in Medal of Honor Heroes 2 as well.

Re:Finally, a Metroid story on Slashdot (2, Interesting)

buffer-overflowed (588867) | more than 7 years ago | (#20432745)

It also helps that most analog stick games "assist" you a bit. If you ever tried Halo or Halo 2 for the PC, they're retardedly easy because of that. Console FPSes though are tuned to console controls, so everyone has a fair shake, and you can get quite good at it. Just don't expect to beat a PC or Wii gamer on an absolutely even, control-wise playing field(as in no auto-assist, simple movement of cursor, they're so much faster and more precise then you... you will lose, horribly). You won't.

K/M is still the best for finate precision control. Wiimote+Nunchuck is #2(resolution is poor compared to modern mice, it's about at Quake 1/2 levels, if they upped it to modern mice level, it would be perfect). Honestly, after MP3, I'll have serious issues picking up any dual-analog FPS.

Re:Finally, a Metroid story on Slashdot (1)

The MAZZTer (911996) | more than 7 years ago | (#20428779)

I'll just say whenever I watch Halo 3 trailers, I never see precise movements of varying speed in the view... it's always jerky (turnstopturnstopturnstop). Whenever I use a K/M I crank the mouse sensitivity up high and aim with precision. The Metroid Prime 3 "Advanced" controls are almost as good as a K/M, although it took me half a game to get used to it.

Re:Finally, a Metroid story on Slashdot (1)

7Prime (871679) | more than 7 years ago | (#20429155)

The Advanced controls seem ludicrus for me. There's no null zone, so it's impossible to keep the screen still. I started to get a headache after playing it for just a little while. I put it back on Standard, and it's feeling a lot better now, I find I can aim and turn a lot more precisely on Standard.

My only huge complaint is that the crosshairs are often impossible to see against many of the backgrounds.

Re:Finally, a Metroid story on Slashdot (1)

FiloEleven (602040) | more than 7 years ago | (#20443533)

I like the responsiveness of the Advanced controls but had the same gripe with the lack of a null zone. I've taken to holding the Z button, which when no targets are present locks the view, any time I'm going in a straight line. It helps immensely and is very easy to get used to.

Re:Finally, a Metroid story on Slashdot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20448541)

Unfortunately, for the gamer who isn't a big FPS fan, the XBox controller will probably just cause extra frustration. I know I hate the controls on the 360 version of Oblivion - if you aren't used to the controller, just walking in the right direction is a challenge. But I'm playing MP3C right now, and it will probably be the first FPS I ever finish. I feel like I've finally mastered move/look after a decade of frustration. It's pretty awesome.

Re:Finally, a Metroid story on Slashdot (1)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 7 years ago | (#20467103)

Move/look on a controller is very much similar to playing a musical instrument...you just have to get used to making your hands do two entirely different things at the same time

Re:Finally, a Metroid story on Slashdot (3, Interesting)

NonSequor (230139) | more than 7 years ago | (#20428405)

(my trusty mouse is still more accurate)

Actually the human brain is capable of exceptional accuracy with a pointing device like the wiimote. Your brain is pretty much hardwired for this sort of thing and it only takes a little practice to get really good at it. I've seen a shooting instructor teach people how to hit an aspirin in midair with a BB gun in less than 10 minutes. This is something that pretty much everyone who isn't braindamaged is capable of doing.

With the wiimote you can easily do some things that are much more difficult with a mouse: track a fast moving target and quickly move between targets. Of course, the PC still has the advantage that you can map keys to all sorts of useful macros, but I think the mouse's reign as best input device is at an end.

Re:Finally, a Metroid story on Slashdot (3, Informative)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 7 years ago | (#20428671)

There's just one teeny-weeny little problem: The Wii Remote does not actually "point" at the object on the screen. It interpolates a set of coordinates based on the positions of the IR LEDs according to the sensor on the front of the remote. The problem this creates is that the aim is inaccurate. You're really aiming within the field of the sensor bar and NOT within the field of the television. Even worse, you're dealing with polar coordinates to determine Cartesian coordinates. This can slightly warp the aim of the Wii Remote, making it even harder to aim precisely.

When I used the Zapper as a kid, I stood far back from the television. (The first mistake people always made with the zapper was to stand too close to the television.) From there I was able to lift the weapon and fire with pinpoint accuracy at ducks/clay pigeons/gangsters/plates/glass panes/various junk the magician threw/etc. At least among my family and friends, I was a crack shot. You can't do that with the Wii Remote. Every time you heft it as a weapon, you need to orient the reticle before taking the shot. You can get good at aiming the remote fairly close to your target, but there will always need to be that visual feedback loop between the reticle and your aim.

While I have yet to play Metroid, I understand it gets around these issues with a "lock-on" control system that actually corrects your aim for you. So if you can get the reticle close to your target, it's good enough to take the shot. Not very realistic, but certainly a lot more fun. ;-)

Now don't get me wrong. The Wii Remote is lightyears ahead of the ultra-fine motor control required to play FPSes with a dual-analog controller. A player can respond faster, shoot quicker, aim more precisely, and otherwise manage to make the controller do what they intend. I think it's an absolutely wonderful update to the venerable gamepad, and wouldn't want to play my console any other way. I'm only pointing out that it has no real advantage over a mouse when it comes to hand/eye coordination skills. In some ways it actually does worse, because the spatial movement of the controller lacks the precision that a mouse's digital-optical sensors can provide. So there is still room for improvement. :)

Re:Finally, a Metroid story on Slashdot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20428777)

While I have yet to play Metroid, I understand it gets around these issues with a "lock-on" control system that actually corrects your aim for you. So if you can get the reticle close to your target, it's good enough to take the shot. Not very realistic, but certainly a lot more fun. ;-)

As far as I can tell, locking on just keeps Samus pointed towards the enemy, and that's it. (Also helps with circle strafing.) The shots still go to wherever the Wiimote is pointed. There's an option that's supposed to change this, causing shots to fire at the locked-on target, but again, AFAICT, this option doesn't actually work.

The aiming target does turn red when you're pointing it over a target.

But this brings me to my complaint about MP3C, since you're 100% right about the issues with the way aiming the Wiimote works: the stupid target cursor (where the game thinks you're pointing) is too hard to see. There are too many targets where you can't rely on locking on since you have to hit various parts of the enemy.

All in all, just as the MP3C preview videos showed, it's usually better to just "spray and pray" pumping out as many beam shots as fast as you can. As for the missiles, they always home anyway.

Re:Finally, a Metroid story on Slashdot (1)

NonSequor (230139) | more than 7 years ago | (#20428959)

Those are issues but I don't think they are really that big of a deal. It doesn't seem that much different from adapting to the peculiarities of a gun. After shooting a bit you learn to transparently compensate for things like the speed of the shot and how much the shot drops over distance. I had a BB gun with a bent barrel and I adapted to that too.

So long as the game provides a consistent mapping between spatial coordinates and display coordinates, a player can learn to internalize the mapping with a little practice. Of course, early Wii games (and the Wii system menu) have suffered from some nuisances like cursor jitter, but Retro has smoothed this out perfectly and hopefully third party devs will catch on too.

The people who practice a lot are going to be able to hit any point on the screen with pinpoint accuracy in a fraction of a second. I assure you that when we see some good online FPSs for the Wii that there will be people capable of headshotting a room full of people very quickly.

Re:Finally, a Metroid story on Slashdot (2, Interesting)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 7 years ago | (#20430061)

I don't think you really understand the difficulties posed by the Wii Remote. The problems you mention all are something that can be ocmpensated for at the gun. With the Wii Remote, you have no such luck. Your aim will be different depending on the position of the sensor bar, your distance from the television, your position along the parallel of the sensor bar, how deep of an angle you're firing at vs. moving the remote side to side, the height the remote is currently being held at, etc. Just about every factor you can think of will slightly change the aiming of the remote. So there's very little comparison with wind (a measurably quantity) and weapon warping (something that can be compensated for). It's more like a weapon that kicks a different direction every time you fire it.

Let me put a strong rumble pack on your gun and let's see how well you compensate for it. ;-)

Re:Finally, a Metroid story on Slashdot (1)

NonSequor (230139) | more than 7 years ago | (#20430601)

In practice I haven't found the inconsistency to be a problem. I've played Call of Duty with the cross hairs disabled and I could easily make headshots, something I could never do well with a mouse. With a little practice you can get to the point where you can just look at what you want to shoot and hit it.

Re:Finally, a Metroid story on Slashdot (1)

MeanderingMind (884641) | more than 7 years ago | (#20467463)

Let me put a strong rumble pack on your gun and let's see how well you compensate for it. ;-)

It's a matter of fact that any dedicated player can adapt to even a monumental handicap.

I played copious amounts of Perfect Dark with a good friend of mine on controllers that had been permanently damaged by Mario Party. When I say permanently damaged, I mean that both controllers acted as though aiming was determined through a random number generator. "Spastic" would be a good descriptor. Despite this handicap we adapted and came to be rather good at the game.

Similarly, all the problems you mentioned are adverse variables against perfect aim via the Wiimote. However, they are all problems that can be intuitively combated. Assuming one is not constantly making major shifts in one's distance from the TV, it's relatively easy to make some initial adaptations and slowly settle into a comfort zone for aiming.

Re:Finally, a Metroid story on Slashdot (1)

Ang31us (1132361) | more than 7 years ago | (#20429143)

"You can get good at aiming the remote fairly close to your target, but there will always need to be that visual feedback loop between the reticle and your aim. While I have yet to play Metroid, I understand it gets around these issues with a "lock-on" control system that actually corrects your aim for you."

Wow, what a great post!

The visual feedback loop is the crosshair that you see painted on the screen when aiming. If you see a moving target far away, you have to aim ahead of him in the direction he is moving to hit him.

The lock-on mechanism does not help you aim your arm-cannon at all (unless you're using the Wii-mote in "beginner" mode, which no real gamer will do anyway). You lock-on to an enemy to circle strafe around him and fire homing missiles (useful for firing at flying enemies that quickly dodge your regular shots, but you have a very limited number of these and usually save them for special enemies). Not all missiles home in on a tartget...they only home in on the target that you are holding in your lock at any given point in time; other missiles go straight in the direction you fired them. While you are locked on one enemy, you can aim and shoot at a totally different enemy with your arm-cannon. Enemies can also break your lock.

You also get tactile (rumble) and auditory feedback when you fire a shot from the Wii-mote. Play it once and I guarantee you'll love it.

Re:Finally, a Metroid story on Slashdot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20448617)

An interesting point, but don't mice have almost exactly the same issue? I know there are tons of two-button snipers here who swear by those.

Re:Finally, a Metroid story on Slashdot (1)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 7 years ago | (#20452745)

No. The optical sensors on mice work by shining a light through holes in a wheel. As each hole is passed, a fixed distance known as a "mickey" is reported. The ratio between pixels and mickeys can be tweaked in the control panel of most OSes, but there is no variation in the physical distance of a mickey.

So called "optical" or "laser" mice are a bit different, but work on similar enough principles. A mickey is still a mickey. It doesn't change unless you lift the mouse or have a very poor surface under the mouse.

Re:Finally, a Metroid story on Slashdot (1)

blahplusplus (757119) | more than 7 years ago | (#20431539)

"but I think the mouse's reign as best input device is at an end."

The end is not quite yet there sparky, the mouse has advantages in being on a flat stationary surface. When you're waving a wand around your arm and hand is wobbling. Next time you boot up your Wii just simply hold the wii-mote aimer at the menu screen and you'll see it wobble. The Wii-mote is a big improvement over analog stick, but the fact has to be faced that the best FPS games everyone wants are on the Xbox 360. Next the motion-sensing technology isn't that accurate yet, in the next console release they'll probably have improved the motion sensing by then.

There are lots of cool technologies that exist today that are not ready for the mass market just yet due to costs or technological immaturity, lack of knowledge with immature implementations.

Re:Finally, a Metroid story on Slashdot (1)

Ang31us (1132361) | more than 7 years ago | (#20432785)

I agree with the vast majority of your post, but...

"The best FPS games everyone wants are on the Xbox 360"

I would qualify that a bit more; yes, the Xbox 360 has more popular FPSes than any other CONSOLE and that the Xbox 360's (and PS3's) joystick aiming scheme is the weakest of all. In my view, the BEST FPS out there is still Unreal Tournament 2004. Halo 3 will do nothing to de-throne it, due to weak play control. UT3 will be the game that de-thrones UT2K4 as the best FPS on the market.

Meanwhile, the only thing that Halo has on MP3C is online play...which is definitely a big deal, but does not make up for the joystick-based play control in my view. I'll take a single-player FPS with accurate aiming over a multi-player FPS with shitty aiming any day...especially if I get to turn my living room into a higher-end experience than any arcade shooter by using the arm-cannon in my right hand to kill the baddies on my 50" widescreen in progressive scan using surround sound.

Re:Finally, a Metroid story on Slashdot (1)

NonSequor (230139) | more than 7 years ago | (#20432903)

The wobble is a software issue. In Metroid Prime 3 it's completely fixed. The cursor doesn't shake and always moves smoothly. Hopefully other developers will catch on soon.

And since there aren't really any decent FPSs on the Wii I'd have to agree that all of the good FPSs are on the 360. But I think we'll have some interesting times ahead when third party devs start to get their act together on the Wii. The 360 will still have it's advantages in graphics and being able to get screamed at by foul-mouthed 8 year olds, but I think we'll see some really interesting FPSs on the Wii.

Re:Finally, a Metroid story on Slashdot (1)

MemoryDragon (544441) | more than 7 years ago | (#20453973)

I sold super Mario strikers, there was one thing which ruined the game for me, it was the endless super strike animation triggered every 15 seconds if you did intensive super strikes. Needless to say, that such a small detail ruined an otherwise excellent game for me.

Re:Finally, a Metroid story on Slashdot (1)

Ang31us (1132361) | more than 7 years ago | (#20460315)

Good defense can stop a player from performing a Super Strike almost every time. You'd be lucky to get one or two off in an online game against an experienced player.

Re:Finally, a Metroid story on Slashdot (2, Insightful)

MemoryDragon (544441) | more than 7 years ago | (#20461969)

That doesnt unfortunately change the fact that you have to go through 15-20 seconds of non stoppable animation if you trigger a superstrike, after the 100th time seeing mario jumping into the air you simply dont want to play the game anymore, give me the same game without superstrike animation and it would have been a classic.

It is amazing how such a minor detail can ruin an otherwise excellent game.

Re:Finally, a Metroid story on Slashdot (1)

Ang31us (1132361) | more than 7 years ago | (#20464693)

Alright...I get it; the animation feels overly repetitive to you and you really hate the fact that you can't skip it -- to you, the repetitive super strike animation made an otherwise excellent game not worth playing.

The animation does something entirely different for me. It's so rare to pull off a super strike against a good player online that I actually get PUMPED, jump out of my seat, and let out a primal scream (YEAAAAAAHHHH!!!!) when I see my team captain jump into the sky and blast 6 high-speed soccer balls at my highly-skilled opponent. My friend and I get the same effect when we pull one off in a 2 v 2 game online...we're high-fiving each-other while Mario takes his leap because we managed to pull it off without getting knocked down or hit with an item.

I do agree that they should definitely have had an option to skip the animation for those who don't like it.

Strange title for a game (1)

KlomDark (6370) | more than 7 years ago | (#20428205)

Prime 3: "Corruption on Wii"

What is that supposed to mean?

Re:Strange title for a game (1)

BenoitRen (998927) | more than 7 years ago | (#20429531)

The "On Wii" part isn't part of the subtitle. The title is Metroid Prime 3: Corruption.

"Corruption" refers to the one of the game's main gameplay features. You have to make sure that you don't store too much Phazon, or you'll be corrupted and turn into Dark Samus, and then it's Game Over. To avoid this, you must fire Phazon at enemies to discharge yourself.

There's more to it than that, but that's all I know. I haven't played the game yet.

Re:Strange title for a game (1)

KlomDark (6370) | more than 7 years ago | (#20556797)

Gotcha! :)

I wonder what this means for Metroid Dread... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20428293)

...seeing as how they've got that easter egg in Metroid Prime 3: Corruption about "Metroid Project 'Dread' completed."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metroid_Dread#Metroid _Dread [wikipedia.org]

Re:I wonder what this means for Metroid Dread... (1)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 7 years ago | (#20428925)

It's a DS title like Hunters was.. They're just saying they're stepping away from new titles. Expect Dread do launch soon, and have some DS-Wii interaction..

That's good to hear (1)

GammaKitsune (826576) | more than 7 years ago | (#20428457)

I love Retro and everything they've done with the Metroid series. They brought the series into the third dimension near perfectly, and hammered out three stellar titles for it. Now, though, I'm interested to see just what they could do with something totally new... Go in any direction, instead of focusing only on the Metroid formula. I can only imagine what they could do if they planned an entire title around the Wii, instead of retrofitting an existing project onto it.

I thought this was already known (1, Flamebait)

BenoitRen (998927) | more than 7 years ago | (#20429639)

It has been known for quite a while now that Metroid Prime 3 would be the last Metroid Prime title, and I don't think they would have done anything else.

It's good they're taking a rest, because quite frankly, they've been losing direction since after the first game. Metroid Prime was a great transition to 3D. It felt right, the gameplay was solid, there was exploration, an interesting world, etc. But then something went horribly wrong.

It is my understanding that the original Metroid Prime was heavily influenced by Nintendo. It was they who told Retro to use a first-person view instead of a third-person one, for one thing. After that, they let Retro use their own ideas, which involved copying Metroid Fusion's X idea, light/dark worlds, and the result was Metroid Prime 2. The gameplay remained solid, and the bosses were good, but everything else that was good about the first title was gone.

No more interesting architecture, no more unique landscapes, Aether was a pretty barren planet with no defining flair. Dark Aether looked bland, and you weren't encouraged to explore because the environment hurts you. There was nothing Chozo on the planet either.

The game was also completely linear, you barely had any choice of where to go. This is reinforced with the amount of lock and key mechanism present in the game. Aside from the obvious 3 Temple Keys you have to collect in each area, there were all kinds of locks added. Light Beam doors, Dark Beam doors, Power Bomb doors, Multi-Missile doors, Annihilition Beam doors, Super Missile doors, and those light beams you access with the Light Suit.

And who had the brilliant idea of assigning AMMO to BEAMS?! Never before has it been done, and it doesn't work well.

Oh, and the Echoes subtitle? Doesn't mean much. You get the Echo Visor very late in the game, and it's only used for a couple puzzles and one boss. Whoop-de-doo.

The game's saving graces are the third area, the Sanctuary, and Dark Samus.

I haven't played Metroid Prime 3 yet, so I can only hope they've learned something. Seeing how Metroid Prime 2 was widely praised, though, it's not likely. Reactions have been mixed about the new game, so far.

Re:I thought this was already known (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 7 years ago | (#20433001)

Don't forget the translator codes... ugh.

Ammo for the beams is probably meant to keep you from just using the most powerful beam on everything. I know in Prime I used the plasma beam as much as I could since it would often 1-2 shot an enemy.

Re:That's good to hear (1)

Glytch (4881) | more than 7 years ago | (#20430861)

I'm hoping that Retro starts licensing their engine and libraries to other developers. If I were a developer looking to build a console FPS, I'd be looking very seriously at the Wii. It's got a huge install base, lower development costs than the PS3 and 360, and Metroid Prime 3 has proven that a first-class FPS with a fantastic control scheme can exist on the Wii.

Or maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part. I love FPSs, but I hate the neverending costs of PC gaming, and Halo-style analog-stick schemes without lock-on buttons drive me crazy. I would love to see the Wii become the FPS console of choice this generation.

Sorta related (0, Offtopic)

The MAZZTer (911996) | more than 7 years ago | (#20429121)

I think I'LL step back from Metroid Prime 3 for a bit... the end boss clobbered me. Only had 1/3 of it's health down too. I figured out how you're supposed to kill it though, so next time I try I'll probably get it.

I'm also still missing some stuff, and I got some questions. I know this isn't GameFAQs or wherever but no-one seems to have written a good walkthrough or power-up guide yet and I don't have the $30 guide. Any help? (Warning: Minor spoilers below)

  1. I'm missing five pickups. Two energy tanks, and I'm guessing a missile expansion (I have 250, does it max out there or at 255?) The rest are ship mission expansions, then?
  2. How do ship missile expansions come into play? When do they get refilled? I've never seen a counter for it anywhere, I don't even know how many I have. I know in open areas you can order in airstrikes anywhere.
  3. When you get a token, is it globally, for all save slots? That is, if I start a new game will my unlockables reset and my tokens be emptied? More importantly, can I LOSE friend tokens like this?
  4. Any quick and easy way to get friend tokens? Cause we all know Slashdotters don't have friends (just kidding). But seriously, I got someone to send me one token. You need something like 20 or 25 to unlock everything. And in case I missed a different color token that I can't get now, I'd have to start the game over, and... well see the above question.
  5. About those pickups... I got the power-up maps for Norian, and the B planet and SkyTown. There don't seem to be power-up maps for Valhalla or the Space Pirate homeworld... are there?
  6. If not, are there any "tricky" power-ups on Valhalla? I think I got everything there but I'm not sure. In a room behind the green door right before the last room with the pirate code, there's a sectioned off area with Metroids that I can't get back to. It looks boring back there, but it's on the map, so I wanna know if there's anything useful hidden back there...
  7. On the pirate homeworld, I got an energy tank in a room where you fight a Metroid Hatcher. Are there any more hidden on that planet? (Cause as I said I'm missing two.)
  8. I remember seeing a plate of plasmite (whatever, that stuff the nova beam can shoot through) somewhere on the pirate homeworld (or maybe the valhalla?) that WASN'T near where you get the Nova Beam... I think it was in one of the larger rooms, but I can't find it again for the life of me. Any places where you can use a Nova Beam to get a power-up (not the small corner room with a metroid and a missle upgrade, got that already)?

In return, here are some tips I've figured out that not everyone might know:

  1. Metroids and cloaking troopers have weak spots which you can see with the X-Ray Visor. Makes killing them 10x easier.
  2. The power-up maps I'm talking about above you can find in the room where you use your ship to pick up the big whatever, repair it, and set it down. In that room there are two morph ball slots in the wall with spider ball tracks which you can use to reach bomb slots. Bomb all of them to get the maps (OK this one isn't mine, found it out from GameFAQs).
  3. Plasma beam fire seems more effective if fired rapidly instead of using charge shots.
  4. When you get the Grapple Voltage, you can use it on any enemy you can grapple (not sure about pirates with shields) to drain life out of them and into you, although after some time they break free.
  5. Sometimes if you press B quickly a lot to skip cutscenes when going from one place to another, the game will run out of cutscene and still be loading. If this happens you might see the title screen load screen for a moment as a stand-in before loading finishes. I can make this happen by landing at the Space Pirate Research Facility, and then using the tram to the right of the start point.
  6. After you finish some areas, you may find strange energy enemies which can only be hurt in Hypermode. Note that there are two types so scan until you get both (they're hard to differentiate). If you kill a Red one, you get a boss token. Every time. Although I think you can only kill each individual one once.

Re:Sorta related (1)

macshome (818789) | more than 7 years ago | (#20429867)

Hey! How about a spoiler warning on there?

Re:Sorta related (1)

The MAZZTer (911996) | more than 7 years ago | (#20430475)

I did? Sorry if I didn't make it prominent enough. :( I tried to keep spoiling to a minimum as well.

Re:Sorta related (1)

macshome (818789) | more than 7 years ago | (#20430541)

Eh. OK. So I missed it the first time, but I did stop reading right away when I saw specifics. Sorry about jumping the gun there...

Re:Sorta related (1)

The MAZZTer (911996) | more than 7 years ago | (#20430501)

I remembered that GameFAQs usually will still have what I need, just in disorganized jumbled form on the game forum. I got the answers to most of my pressing questions.

  1. I was missing two energy tanks, one missle expansion, and two ship missile expansions.
  2. I still don't know this.
  3. The word is when you start a new game in the same slot (once you beat the final boss it asks you) you save your tokens. I still am not sure about globally...
  4. There's a bunch of people on GameFAQs swapping friend codes and trading like 5 tokens at once. Someone got ripped off though.
  5. The Space Pirate map is in the same place as the rest, you just need powerups that you can only get after you beat most of the planet. After looking around the room with my other visors I figured it out.
  6. No tricky powerups. They're all in the open.
  7. I found an energy tank and a ship missile expansion I had missed. It was a piece of cake once I got the map.
  8. This place I was thinking of was in the room where you get the power-up maps... and turned out to be the means to get the Space Pirate map.
  9. I now have all items, now only things that are left are tokens, and scans to get tokens...

Re: Sorta related (1)

Glytch (4881) | more than 7 years ago | (#20430941)

You're referring to the powerup maps you get after launching the satellites in Skytown's observatory, right? There's definitely one for the pirate homeworld. There's no map for the Valhalla, though.

The ship missiles get refilled like any other items. You'll get them in crates or from killed enemies.

I'm in the same boat for friend tokens. If you want to swap, add me to your list and I'll send what I've got. My code's 2982 4515 0998 4954.

Re:Sorta related (1)

alvinrod (889928) | more than 7 years ago | (#20435481)

1. The best way to find missing pickups is to run around with the x-ray visor on. Any power ups will show up as a bright orange color that really stands out against the rest of the gray. This works really well for stuff that's at a long distance.

2. I know I've seen a counter for them somewhere. I think if you bring up the command visor or some other ship menu it has a display somewhere. I'm guessing that they refill at save points similar to how all your regular missiles do.

3. I haven't finished the game yet but I'm going to say no. I was reading some information on the tokens and one of the areas said that the tokes were awarded for killing bosses on different difficulty levels. I'm guessing that they don't reset, but that you can't get the same tokens over and over again for new games.

4. The gamefaqs message board has a lot of threads with people looking to exchange vouchers. I suggest looking into that to find some people.

5. I don't think there's a map for the Valhalla, or at least I never found one of them. There's a map for the Pirate Homeworld. You get it in order to get the option to land at one of the other areas. You get on your way to rescue the captured trooper, I think.

6. I was just in this room, but forgot to try to get back there actually. I'll have to go back there to check it out. Make sure to tell me if you manage to get back there somehow or if it's a known fact that it can't be done so I don't waste too much time on it.

7. I think I got a few others from there, but I played through there late last night and only quit playing when I couldn't keep my eyes open any longer. I don't recall too well.

8. Come to think of it, I recall a few other areas where you would have needed to use this that were on the Pirate Homeworld. I think there even may have been a few in the Sky City. I've yet to finish collecting all the remaining pickups that I need.

They should use the time to make middleware. (3, Insightful)

Dorceon (928997) | more than 7 years ago | (#20429205)

Seriously, since MP3:C got the controls right, and it does such a good job on the graphics, it seems like licensing the engine out is an obvious step. When you consider that Nintendo owns Retro, and Nintendo stands to benefit from the quality of games on the Wii going up (in both hardware sales to hardcore gamers and in software licensing revenue), not to mention that they can collect engine licensing fees, it seems like an obvious choice.

Re:They should use the time to make middleware. (1)

steveo777 (183629) | more than 7 years ago | (#20466313)

I agree. I've played a few of the 3D platformer Castlevanias and I think they could really benefit from this engine. The XBox and PS2 games were good, but not great. Perhaps we might get a good sequel to Kid Icarus?

The original Kid Icarus used the Metroid engine (1)

Dorceon (928997) | more than 7 years ago | (#20485729)

so it would be a nice full-circle for Kid Icarus Prime to use the Metroid Prime engine.

The problem with Metroid is it's too repetitive (0)

Kumba (84067) | more than 7 years ago | (#20430373)

I love Metroid like any other fan of the series, but my serious gripes with it are that the strategies are usually too repetitive. Hit something three times, open up a weak spot, attack; rinse lather, repeat two more times. And then there's ALWAYS the something in the game that just annoys the living daylights out of me. Some enemy that's just got an extremely annoying attack or movement designed to frustrate me. I think this is why Nintendo builds such excellent hardware, because they know someone is intentionally going to put a Wiimote through a television screen because of some enemy or boss.

In my case, it's the Tiamat AA Guns on that whatchamacallit planet near the beginning, specifically the one with the Aero Troopers. I've done tossed the Wiimote into the wall twice over it, and quite likely am just going to put the game up for several months now. Amazingly, the Wiimote still functions. A PS2 controller would've died long before now.

Re:The problem with Metroid is it's too repetitive (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20431723)

I loved the Tiamat AA guns part.

I assume that you're having trouble with the part with the Jetpack Pirates, as the first gun with the land troopers was easy. For the Jetpack pirates, hook one of the lever things and then hop to the central platform. One of the Jetpack pirates will float over to try to fix it. Wait for him and blow him out of the sky and do another. Once all three are unhooked you can hop down to the central area and blow up the exposed power cells without too much fuss.

Re:The problem with Metroid is it's too repetitive (1)

BenoitRen (998927) | more than 7 years ago | (#20432795)

I've done tossed the Wiimote into the wall twice over it

I recommend anger management therapy.

Re:The problem with Metroid is it's too repetitive (1)

Devir (671031) | more than 7 years ago | (#20468651)

My PS2 controlers have lasted 6 years of abuse. They're a little worn for wear but have survived being dropped, stepped on, tossed on the floor after game time is over, and pretty much daily multi hour use.

THe Wii Motes are also very durable, but will they stand the test of time my PS2 controlers have? I hope so because Rayman requires serious shaking.

Sequels (1)

Sly-Ry (1121577) | more than 7 years ago | (#20467845)

Metroid Prime 3 is the best game on the Wii right now and the control rocks. Simple as that.

I hope the next Metroid game that comes out is as different from Metroid Prime as Metroid Prime was from Super Metroid. Three games in the series is enough. I would hate for Metroid Prime to become like Zelda, which has been the same game over and over since Ocarina. (To Wind Waker's credit, it had a lot of water).

Anyway the point of this rant is MP3 is the best game right now because it was designed for the Wii, even if the Wii controls came in a later stage in the development. Zelda games haven't changed since N64, and the Wii controls are neat but obviously a port from Game Cube mechanics. It doesn't help that the game is routine and bland in comparison to something like MP3. Sequels are fine and all, but Metroid Prime has peaked. Zelda peaked at Ocarina, and has taken various steps forward and backward and is essentially walking in circles.
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