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Wii The Media

USA Today's Sensationalist Take on Manhunt 2 128

Posted by Zonk from the makers-of-the-playstation-pornable dept.
Fozzyuw writes "USA Today has up a story on Manhunt 2 for the Wii, the 'AO'-rated then re-rated title from Rockstar games. They appear to be specifically aiming to sensationalize the story, with evocative and needlessly violent language. Here are a few snippets from the article: '"Nintendo Wii takes a murderous turn." Manhunt 2 was originally rated Adults Only — equivalent to an X in films — and now carries an M for mature audiences (17 and up) ... Since the Wii version uses the motion-sensitive controllers, it literally gives players the hands of a killer ... Nintendo doesn't need to expand its user base to help the Wii continue to outsell its pricier and technologically superior competitors ... On the Wii, players physically make killing motions with the controllers — slashing for stabs and lifting to strangle — rather than simply pushing buttons.'"
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USA Today's Sensationalist Take on Manhunt 2 More

USA Today's Sensationalist Take on Manhunt 2

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  • Sith lord's dream come true (Score:4, Funny)

    by Verteiron ( 224042 ) on Tuesday October 02, 2007 @12:17PM (#20824487) Homepage
    You lift the Wiimote to strangle people? It's like my very own Force-choke! Awesome!
    • Are there any Jedi-related games for the Wii? The Wiimote seems ideal for lightsaber and force grip/choke/manipulate control.

      In the old Jedi Knight game, I always maxed out my force pull skill and bound it to right click. It was fun grabbing the weapons out of peoples hands just before they tried to shot you, particularly in multiplayer.

  • even from an experienced gamer.. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Aeron65432 ( 805385 ) <agiambaNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Tuesday October 02, 2007 @12:20PM (#20824527) Homepage
    I've been playing videogames for years now, I've played CS, Doom, Unreal Tournament, etc. I never was really bothered by the violence or graphics because it was entertainment. I even thought GTA:San Andreas was an excellent game, despite it's dubious morals.

    I have no problem with people publishing ManHunt2, or playing it. But is anyone else very disturbed by the idea of using a Wiimote to stab/strangle/maim people? This just seems over-the-top to me. I don't think I could play this even if it appealed to me.

    • Re:even from an experienced gamer.. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Chris Burke ( 6130 ) on Tuesday October 02, 2007 @12:33PM (#20824741) Homepage
      But is anyone else very disturbed by the idea of using a Wiimote to stab/strangle/maim people?

      Uh... it sounds like the most obvious thing to do, exactly what you would expect to do in any similar game for the Wii.

      I mean, you hack things apart in Zelda by waving the wiimote around. Granted it's cartoony, and manhunt is "realistic". Same difference between Zelda for GC and GTA:SA for PS2. Either way, just like on those consoles you expect to control your character's actions with buttons, on the Wii you expect to do so by simulating the action with the Wiimote.

      So how exactly is doing the most natural thing "over the top"? How exactly should they abstract the act of stabbing someone (besides the fact that you'll be 'stabbing' your wiimote at empty air)?

      If pushing buttons vs making vague stabby motions in the air is all it takes to turn something like GTA:SA from a fun romp into something deeply distrubing, well, I guess that is what disturbs me.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by Altus ( 1034 )
        Check out "the Godfather: Blackhand edition" for the Wii. Sure its not as bloody as manhunt but you are swinging your fists around to beat people up and the motions for grabbing and throwing a guy (or bashing his head on a counter) are similarly accurate. I really liked this honestly. It made the game much more enjoyable than a button mash would have been.

        Oddly, I dont think it recieved nearly the attention of Manhunt. Maybe its because Manhunt is by those horrible purveyors of filth that are threaten

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Aladrin ( 926209 )
        "So how exactly is doing the most natural thing "over the top"?"

        Did you seriously just call 'acting out a murder in a video game' "the most natural thing?" I'm sure you meant the acting part, but if you can't see what makes that disturbing, where pressing buttons wasn't disturbing, I can't even begin to imagine how to clear that up for you.

        • Re:even from an experienced gamer.. (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Chris Burke ( 6130 ) on Tuesday October 02, 2007 @02:00PM (#20826023) Homepage
          Did you seriously just call 'acting out a murder in a video game' "the most natural thing?"

          It's the Wii. It uses motion controls. In most games the motion controls are used to simulate the action your avatar performs. It has a paucity of buttons. So yes, using motion controls to control your actions is the most natural thing to do.

          I'm sure you meant the acting part, but if you can't see what makes that disturbing, where pressing buttons wasn't disturbing, I can't even begin to imagine how to clear that up for you.

          I'm sure that you have no idea what I meant.

          You're acting out a virtual murder in any event. If making your on-screen avatar brutalize innocents by pressing "A" or "X" is fine with you, but doing the same thing by making vague stabby motions in empty air is not fine, then it's because you've never actually thought about what you were doing before. If you actually found the violence itself disturbing, that would be fine, and these games simply wouldn't be for you. But when shanking someone in the neck is honky-dory as long as you do it with a button but not a motion, then that speaks to greater issues that have nothing to do with the game or its interface. That's why you can't make the difference clear, because it rests on essentially a hairs breadth difference in level of abstraction in what is in either case a completely abstracted and artificial act.

          By the way, how do you feel about murdering virtual people with a gun by pulling the trigger button? Are shooters too disturbing for you?
          • You got a point, but here is the other side: pressing a button to stub someone is less natural than moving your hands around to simulate the motion of stubbing. The latter may awake thoughts and instincts which are not awaken by the former.

            • Bullshit alert! Your assertion is without any evidence. Have a cookie.

            • Re: (Score:1)

              by mink ( 266117 )
              "The latter may awake thoughts and instincts which are not awaken by the former."

              There go my hopes for a good console version of Killer Instinct and an inspirational Mii called Jack Handy.

              We should also ban alarm clocks and imported spice, otherwise the sleeper may awaken.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by LKM ( 227954 )

          Did you seriously just call 'acting out a murder in a video game' "the most natural thing?"

          So I take it you've never played cops and robbers as a kid? :-)

          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            by Aladrin ( 926209 )
            Actually, no I didn't, but I take your point. It's somehow a little different when you get to see the blood of the person, even if it's 'just pixels'.

            It's funny, because I've always been in the 'VR RPG's will be SO awesome!' crowd... But when I think about using a virtual knife to stab someone, and will see their virtual blood, it loses a lot of the appeal for me.

            I'm one of the people that never sacrificed a little sister in Bioshock because it was cruel... I just couldn't bring myself to do it. If ther
      • Obviously they should have button presses for any physical attacks, and swing motions to set off bombs. Er, wait.. the oldschool TNT detonators sort of used a swing motion. Ok, bombs should be set off by a pirouette motion, preferably 3+ rotations. Stabbing should be a button press, and shooting should be controlled by eeeeh, Macarena. Aye!

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by suv4x4 ( 956391 )
      But is anyone else very disturbed by the idea of using a Wiimote to stab/strangle/maim people?

      Not more disturbed than giving my kid a "lightgun" to "shoot" other kids.

      You see existing technology didn't cause the apocalypse the media, certain lawyers and worried parents promised.

      But as you age, you actually become one of said parents raising worried voice against newer technologies, repeating the mistakes of the previous generation once more.

      Remember, in the past, Germany outlawed River Raid [atariage.com] in fears it may
      • I think Germany was right. Ted Kazinsky played river raid.

      • Re:even from an experienced gamer.. (Score:4, Interesting)

        by westlake ( 615356 ) on Tuesday October 02, 2007 @03:15PM (#20827183)
        Remember, in the past, Germany outlawed River Raid in fears it may make kids go out and kill people.

        Germany hasn't forgotten the Hitler Youth. [wikipedia.org]

        The Nazis used children's games to shape and perpetuate a culture of hate and violence.

        The HJ were viewed as future "Aryan supermen" and were indoctrinated in anti-Semitism. [Many] HJ activities closely resembled military training, with weapons training, assault course circuits and basic strategy. Some cruelty by the older boys toward the younger ones was tolerated and even encouraged, since it was believed this would weed out the unfit and harden the rest. The HJ wore uniforms very like those of the SA, with similar ranks and insignia.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by tbannist ( 230135 )
        Indeed! Past subjects of hysteria include:

        Novels - No, really. Novels were ruining the youth of America in the late 1800s
        Pinball - In the 1930s pinball machines were turning children into muggers.
        Rock'n'Rolle - This is the classic one. Rock'n'Roll was responsible for all kinds of things like devil worship!
        Comics - I think it was the 60s when comic books were turning children into deranged killers.
        Rap - We should all be able to remember that Rap was turning children into thugs in the 90s.

        Obviously, Video
        • Don't forget that Dungeons and Dragons was causing teens in the 1980s to commit suicide or kill their parents in occult rituals.

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by westlake ( 615356 )
          Past subjects of hysteria

          The problem is, that history is rarely painted in black and white.

          Pinball in the thirties often came with payouts - thinly disguised gambling machines at a time when a nickel was serious money.

          In the fifties, comic books were losing older readers to the paperback novels of Mickey Spillane.

          Graphic crime and horror seemed the way to go.

          The problem was these often very crude and exploitive comics were being sold off the same drugstore racks as Archie, Casper and Scrooge McDuck.

          T

    • Re:even from an experienced gamer.. (Score:4, Interesting)

      by kevin.fowler ( 915964 ) on Tuesday October 02, 2007 @12:59PM (#20825193) Homepage
      The Godfather: Blackhand Edition already does this. I felt particularly sociopathic playing that game.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by GnarlyDoug ( 1109205 )
      But is anyone else very disturbed by the idea of using a Wiimote to stab/strangle/maim people?

      That would be sick and wrong. However I plan on using the Wiimote to stab/strangle/maim bitmaps/sprites/pixels.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by vimh42 ( 981236 )
      Yawn. You know in Twilight Princess you actually swing a sword and kill things. On other Wii games you point the wiimote shoot people. You should probably concern yourself more with the content than the method of interaction.

    • But is anyone else very disturbed by the idea of using a Wiimote to stab/strangle/maim people?
      you don't however, make an issue of using it to point and shoot like you're wielding a gun. that would arguably be my first problem with the Wii, if i felt there was a problem at all. it's easier to shoot someone from afar than sneak up on them and knife them without causing a scene.
  • sounds fun?

  • Sensationalized Summary (Score:4, Informative)

    by MyLongNickName ( 822545 ) on Tuesday October 02, 2007 @12:22PM (#20824553) Journal
    RTFA. The article is fair. It describes what the game is about and how it is played. I am not sure what is sensationalized about the article itself. If having the game described shocks you then your problem is with the game itself.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Pap22 ( 1054324 )
      I was about to say "Slashdot accusing another news site of sensationalist reporting? Oh the irony..."

      But it looks like it's even worse if Slashdot is sensationalizing a legit story to make them sound sensationalist. Absolutely amazing.

    • Re:Sensationalized Summary (Score:5, Informative)

      by MyLongNickName ( 822545 ) on Tuesday October 02, 2007 @12:31PM (#20824715) Journal
      For those too lazy to RTFA, here is the blurb that speaks directly about the game. Sensationalist? You decide.

      "But Manhunt 2 goes the furthest. Players take the role of a psychiatric escapee who has murderous rages as he tries to uncover his past. On the Wii, players physically make killing motions with the controllers -- slashing for stabs and lifting to strangle -- rather than simply pushing buttons. Rockstar's goal is to put players in the horror genre in ways that films like Saw or Hostel cannot.

      "It's a different level of engagement in video games," says Rockstar's Rodney Walker. "You can literally experience the emotional responses of the character."

      The Entertainment Software Ratings Board tagged Manhunt 2 with the Adults Only rating in June, essentially banning the game. Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony do not permit AO games to be made for their consoles, and many retailers will not stock AO titles. Rockstar changed the game and resubmitted it to earn an M rating.

      Walker concedes that some might be turned off by the game. "But what about other people who should have a choice whether or not to play it?" he says."

      Note that the quotes are from Rodney Walker of Rockstar.
      • Just read the article in my free hotel copy of USA Today... the print copy's headline is "MANHUNT 2 bloodied... but unbowed as game earns M rating". There's not a single "sensationalist" word in the article.
      • "It's a different level of engagement in video games," says Rockstar's Rodney Walker. "You can literally experience the emotional responses of the character."

        This quote is God's gift to the anti-violent video game crusader. It will never be forgotten or forgiven.

        • Is it? Don't they tend to claim that violent games turn children into sociopaths, and isn't the inability to experience the emotions of others one of the defining features of a sociopath?
          • Don't they tend to claim that violent games turn children into sociopaths, isn't the inability to experience the emotions of others one of the defining features of a sociopath?

            That is - precisely - the danger critics see in role-playing a psychopath. In rewarding the player for the sadism of his kills.

            The stealth shooter can explore the moral ambiguity of the sniper's role, but the issues in a game like S.W.A.T are framed in a moment of great tension. The right decision may not be to attempt the shot.

    • Since the Wii version uses the motion-sensitive controllers, it literally gives players the hands of a killer
      Unless I get Ted Kazinsky's extremities in a box when I purchase the game, the quoted sentence is sensationalized.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by PJ1216 ( 1063738 ) *
      This is the only article i've ever read that they imply the wii doesn't need to expand its fan and therefore they can't understand why they released this game. The article questions why the Wii would carry such a game. If that's fair, then, whatever. To me, thats not fair. It puts the game in a negative light. The only positive, fair comments come from the people being quoted. So, overall, the story may be balanced, in that it gives both sides, but the author is obviously somewhat against it in some f
      • Even if you are correct, having an author not agreeing with the business sense of the decision is not even remotely the same as "sensationalist journalism". The only one sensationalist is the article submitter.
        • I realize it rarely happens these days but isn't non-sensationalized journalism the kind that plainly presents the facts from all angles and leaves whether things are good or bad as an exercise for the reader? I mean as far as I'm concerned it's a pretty thin line between personal bias and sensationalism. Just because this article isn't the Jack Thompson level of over the top anti-game-violence sensationalism we're all used to doesn't mean it's not sensationalized at all.

          The use of negative adjectives to

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Fozzyuw ( 950608 )

      RTFA. The article is fair.

      Though, my write-up [slashdot.org] was worded much differently, this article cannot be called 'fair'. It's cleverly written, and has a lot of facts, but it's not fair. Here's why...

      Sensationalism [wikipedia.org] is a manner of being extremely controversial, loud, or attention-grabbing.

      The definition of sensationalism I'm using, so we're all on the same page.

      Nintendo Wii takes a murderous turn

      Nintendo is not murdering people, nor are they planning on it. Catchy, but sensationalist because Nintendo is al

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by 517714 ( 762276 )
      RTFA? Are you crazy? This is USA Toady we're talking about here. Where's the colorful graph that summarizes (misleads the reader as to the content of) the story? PS Toady started out as a typo, but I kinda like it.

  • Stabby Stabby? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by 8-bitDesigner ( 980672 )
    You know, I may be one sick puppy for admitting this, but I had zero interest in this game before I read that summary. I'm just finishing up Metroid 3: Corruption, and I gotta say that the little gimmicky Wiimote actions ("Hold A, and twist the wiimote counter-clockwise...") are actually pretty fun. They're good for immersion and make an interesting new game mechanic.

    So, being able to do the same with a shank? I'm in.

  • Literally? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by grahamd0 ( 1129971 ) on Tuesday October 02, 2007 @12:25PM (#20824619)

    it literally gives players the hands of a killer

    I believe the word they were looking for was "metaphorically", but it is USA Today so you can't really expect too much.

    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Literally?

      Indeed. Then tell me this, if you LITERALLY take the hands from a serial killer, will it not result in less murders from said serial killer?

      Truly this game will be a boon for REDUCING violence, if the wii can pull off this miracle...

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Psmylie ( 169236 ) *
        "Indeed. Then tell me this, if you LITERALLY take the hands from a serial killer, will it not result in less murders from said serial killer?"

        This is true, except in the case of Lars, the Mad Kick-Boxer of Bombay

    • Nope, the word "literally" IS appropriate usage, since the article is about video games, and it is therefore understood that EVERYTHING that takes place in a video game occurs on a metaphorical level. In this specific game's metaphorical world, your controller LITERALLY provides you with control of a killer's hands.

    • Re:Literally? (Score:4, Funny)

      by Altus ( 1034 ) on Tuesday October 02, 2007 @12:53PM (#20825067) Homepage

      Literally has literally come to mean figuratively in modern English, in a manner of speaking.

      • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

        by UbuntuDupe ( 970646 )
        I'm all for flexible languages ... but ... in this case, promoting that kind of sloppiness makes it impossible when you want to convey the meaning of the original definition of "literally".

        Before, "really" meant "literally", now people use "really" just to mean "very".

        Now "literally" just means "figuratively".

        What do we go to now? "Actually"? And then how long until that term gets used metaphorically?

        And how long until "metaphorically" gets used "metaphorically"?

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by NonSequor ( 230139 )

        Literally has literally come to mean figuratively in modern English, in a manner of speaking.

        I wouldn't quite say that. People typically insert "literally" into a sentence when they want to express sincerity as opposed to an empty use of a phrase. For example, someone might say that a movie had them "literally glued to their seat." Of course they are in fact figuratively glued to their seat not literally, but the sentiment they are intending to express is that they were genuinely reluctant to leave their se

    • To be fair, I think they're getting at the fact that in the Wii version, you're not just taking on the character of the killer (which could be called figuratively giving the player the hands of the killer), but you're literally using your hands to make the killer's motions. It's not exactly an accurate use of the word, but it's closer than most literally/figuratively screw-ups.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by vimh42 ( 981236 )
      Jack helped write the copy.
    • We should be surprised at this, coming from McNewspaper?

    • it literally gives players the hands of a killer

      I believe the word they were looking for was "metaphorically", but it is USA Today so you can't really expect too much.

      No, you don't understand. It's a new Wii controller snap-on that makes use of the output of the Texas department of justice.

      And no, you don't want to know what the other parts are used for.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by bentcd ( 690786 )

      it literally gives players the hands of a killer
      I believe the word they were looking for was "metaphorically", but it is USA Today so you can't really expect too much.
      Either that, or the game comes bundled with two Hands of Vecna . . .
  • This is obviously the newest training method for terrorists. It must be that Nintendo and Rockstar are pawns of Al Qaeda and USA Today is doing a service for the weak and ever shrinking US government by bringing horrible tool of destruction to their attention.

    Seriously, it seems like ever since kids stopped playing semi violent games (cops and robbers, cap guns, and a host of others) they are more prone to actual violence. But whatever sells papers I guess.

  • They certainly use charged words, but they're not really slamming Nintendo or Rockstar. However, for a company that's constantly in battles about whether or not their games are "murder simulators" or the like, this quote wasn't such a great idea:

    "It's a different level of engagement in video games," says Rockstar's Rodney Walker. "You can literally experience the emotional responses of the character."

    Yeah...maybe they want to give Mr. Walker a personal editor before his next interview? :)

  • Sensational? How about Accurate? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Oh please, stop with the faux sense of outrage that someone might accurately describe a video game for the murder simulator it is.

    Seriously. This is what this game is. You kill...almost indiscriminately. That is the name of the game. Hell, this is probably why I'm going to buy it.

    And this is a big step for Nintendo. I just finished the Godfather: Black Hand Edition and it too was a 'bit' violent. But there is some history with this...not much, but some. The Godfather, violent as it may be, is in the

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by nuzak ( 959558 )
      Oh please, stop with the faux sense of outrage that someone might accurately describe a video game for the murder simulator it is.

      Hi Jack Thompson, nice to see you on slashdot!

      Seriously. This is what this game is. You kill...almost indiscriminately. That is the name of the game. Hell, this is probably why I'm going to buy it.

      Er, um... maybe. Oh wait. Hi Jack Thompson, nice to see you on slashdot!
      • Jack Thompson won't buy it. He'll send his 15 year old son in to buy it for him, and then be outraged that anyone would dare let a 15 year old buy Manhunt 2.

    • and that is the point of these sorts of articles to warn the parents.

      Actually, I think the point of the article was to sell newspapers.

      So please, spare us the faux indignation about sensationalism when the article does a good job of accurately describing what the game is and does.

      I can only speak for myself, but there's nothing especially "faux" about my indignation. Just because the particulars of a story happen to be true doesn't mean that the presentation of the facts therein can't skew towards

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by nonos ( 158469 )
      How can you say it's just about killing, you didn't even play it ?!?
  • Gee, what other titles for the Wii allow you to slash the controllers to attack in-game. Hmmm... oh that's right, the critically acclaimed Zelda: Twilight Princess, rated T for Teen.

    Or how about Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, rated E for EVERYONE.

    Remember kids, never let the facts get in the way of a good story!
    • Amen. This is a clear cut case of tunnel vision on the part of the media as well as using selective memory to demonize something that they probably don't even have first-hand experience with.
    • How was my post a troll? That took 3 people to mod me to -1. Everything I posted is FACT. 'Zelda: Twilight Princess' and 'TMNT' for the Wii both allow the player to making slashing motions to attack with weapons in game, and both are rated 'Teen' and 'Everyone' respectively. That is FACT. Sorry to point out relevant comparisons that don't fit your goddamn world view.

  • Wii continue to outsell its pricier and technologically superior competitors

    Well, obviously Mike Snider / Brent Jones have an axe to grind against the Wii.

    But can you really say that the Wii is technologically inferior ? The clockspeed isn't the only parameter to measure technology... One can argue that the Wii is technologically superior because of its controller novel design. Hey, it allows you to make killing motions, while you can't with the other consoles pityful controllers !

    • But can you really say that the Wii is technologically inferior ? The clockspeed isn't the only parameter to measure technology... One can argue that the Wii is technologically superior because of its controller novel design.

      Yes. You could argue, but you'd sound pretty silly. The Wii _is_ technologically inferior, and that is the main reason it's as cheap as it is. That doesn't mean it doesn't provide as fun of an experience as the other consoles. I could argue my Scion is technologically superior to any BMW because I have standard iPod integration with my stereo. I'd be completely wrong though.

      "Superior" is very subjective, but "technologically superior" less so. I think in these cases it fairly clear. Consider this, b

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by nonos ( 158469 )
      The wii console is inferior but it's controller is superior.
  • Since the Wii version uses the motion-sensitive controllers, it literally gives players the hands of a killer.

    I was unaware that the hands of a killer were constantly wrapped around a white piece of plastic.

    • Re: (Score:1, Offtopic)

      by imroy ( 755 )

      I literally have a problem with people literally overusing the word "literally". They literally misuse it to literally emphasis something, instead of literally indicating that a phrase is not being literally used as a common expression. If these writers literally realised what they were literally writing, their heads would literally explode. Figuratively speaking, of course.

  • So let me see here. Fencing, musketry, paintball, boxing, combat training, karate, kendo, sparring, stuntwork, etc, should all be out of the question for anyone younger than adults. These activities are far more real than their Wii-gaming counterparts. Houston, we have a problem.
    • So let me see here. Fencing, musketry, paintball, boxing, combat training, karate, kendo, sparring, stuntwork, etc, should all be out of the question for anyone younger than adults.

      In unsupervised settings, all of these activities would be considered out-of-bounds for minors.

      That is what put CBS on a tightrope with "Kid Nation." The adult simply can't dump kids in the desert - and expect to escape liability when something goes wrong.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by LSD-OBS ( 183415 )
        In unsupervised settings, all of these activities would be considered out-of-bounds for minors.

        Not to mention adults who haven't had proper training and experience.

        The point is playing a shoot-em-up is hardly physically dangerous (unless you're breaking limbs with the Wiimote like some talented individuals), and if the above activities are not frowned upon but require supervision, then the parallel in the gaming context would simply imply that the parent or guardian should keep tabs on what is being played
        • The point is playing a shoot-em-up is hardly physically dangerous

          But the question is whether a game like Manhunt 2 is psychologically dangerous.

          Ray Bradbury was posing this question as early as 1951 in his short story The Veldt. Gene Wolfe had his own take on role-playing games in When I Was Ming the Merciless, ca. 1976.

          I don't think you dispose of these questions quite as easily as the Gamer-Geek would like to believe. I can see a problem in wielding the Wii remote in imitation of a real-life weapon.

  • You might think that having to carry out the motions using the Wii remote instead having swiveling a joystick and pressing a button is a bit too realistic, but the same argument that firing a gun in a video game isn't like real life can be applied here. Swinging the Wii remote around isn't like strangling or shanking a real person in the real world (not that I'd know personally) but a little bit of thinking should make it obvious.

    • Re: (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Based on my extensive experience strangling, stabbing, and shooting people, I too must agree that the Wii-simulated motions are nothing like the real thing.

      Old Boy

  • AO != X (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    The "X" movie rating is simply a mock rating, used when the film has not been reviewed by the MPAA. The correct equivalent would be a "NC-17" rating.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by dwye ( 1127395 )
      > The "X" movie rating is simply a mock rating,

      No, it is an out-of-date rating, with which most of us are familiar. It is equivalent to calling the Russian agency that replaced the KGB *as* the KGB, or calling KGB members Chekists. Or for that matter, calling an Emperor of Russia after Peter The Great as Czar.
  • It would be curious to see if these journalists are actually gamers themselves. These sound more like culture shocks than anything else. Journalists don't need to be experts in every fields they write about. But I do expect them to be quite well informed for very widespread phenomena such as gaming. It would be silly like expecting someone who knows nothing about about football covering a game.
  • USA Today may as well run a cover story slamming punching bags and their far-too-realistic simulation of actually using your fist to hit something that's meant to be the equivalent of a human. Or perhaps they should ban the sport of MMA, because anyone that fights in the ring is just training to fight elsewhere. How about banning the army? All those kids learning to shoot real guns at real people, surely all of these things must be just as harmful as a video game about simulating killing people, right? Or just maybe, there's a chance that by engaging in gameplay, people can let out frustration that OTHERWISE might lead to bad things. That would be much more understandable.

    It isn't the training of killers that kills people, it's the killer's will to actually go out and kill. If they don't know how to aim a gun properly, it will just take more tries. I wouldn't use a gun that way despite knowing how to aim it... USA today apparently doesn't know the difference.
  • The Godfather : Blackhand Edition [wikipedia.org] for the Wii had choking (requiring you to shake the controls vigorously in a throat-grab position), garrote usage (requiring you to use the Wiimote and nunchuk to simulate looping the garrote around a neck and pulling it taut), gratuitous use of the word "Fuck!" and dancing call girls, in addition to being able to violently murder innocent bystanders in a variety of ways. Not entirely sure why Manhunt 2 was so outstanding, except that it was produced by Rockstar Games, and
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • I was going to comment on this too. Please, journalists: if you don't know what a word means, don't use it in your article. For more on the proper and improper uses of the word "literally", http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ilvy7Ob6fZ0 [youtube.com]
    • Um "knowingly defamed Take Two with malicious intent"? I think you would never be able to prove the "knowingly" aspect nor the "malicious intent" aspect.

      This would be an incredibly poor defamation case.

      Do you seriously contend that USA sought to ruin Take Two by using "literally" in the slang sense of the word?
  • If these people have ever seen an arcade game with guns or crossbows. Silent Scope comes to mind, as does Beachhead 2000. Nintendo had a light gun for the NES home system. Games as far back as at least the first Star Wars arcade game used controls that simulated the actual controls used for killing your enemies up to a point. After Burner had a sit-down version with a flight stick, throttle, trigger, and thumb button which pitched and rolled with the plane on-screen. Battlezone drove with two joysticks like

  • Since the Wii version uses the motion-sensitive controllers, it literally gives players the hands of a killer.

    Whoa! That's cool! Did they come from one of those countries where they chop off criminals' hands?

    (Alternative response): Hey! I saw that movie [imdb.com]. Funny stuff!

    (Insert grumbling about inappropriate use of the word "literally" here.)

    Disclaimer: I found Manhunt to be pretty gross. Never played the sequel.

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • False ESRB To MPAA Ratings (Score:3, Insightful)

    by nick_davison ( 217681 ) on Tuesday October 02, 2007 @02:17PM (#20826327)

    Manhunt 2 was originally rated Adults Only -- equivalent to an X in films -- and now carries an M for mature audiences (17 and up)
    Ao is a rough equivalent to NC-17. NC-17 is considered a commercial deathknell for a movie as it ensures most theaters won't pick it up because of concerns that potential audiences are too small. In exactly the same way, an Ao is a deathknell as BestBuy, Walmart, etc. won't carry a game they think is going to scare adults away from buying it for their children.

    M is a rough equivalent to R. R pretends to mean "No one under 17" just like NC-17 but everyone knows many parents, older brothers, etc. will ignore that warning and choose to take kids anywhere (I sat through Scream 3 while a woman took her roughtly 3, 5 and 10 year olds in with her). In the same way, Walmart and BestBuy will happily sell M rated games as they know they won't scare parents off from buying them for their kids in the same way Ao might do.

    Hollywood has been sending movies back for re-review for years. There are even famous letters of producers debating how many "fuck"s a "Jesus Christ!" is worth. Generally, they pick a rating they want, aim for the edgy end of it, submit, then make whatever edits they're told they need to to squeeze it back in to that category. All that's changed is that game companies have learned from Hollywood - nothing more, nothing less.

    The real shame isn't that "evil" games are getting reclassified after receiving edits. The greater shame is, much like movies, potentially great pieces of art that are totally appropriate for an adult audience are being squashed in the name of commercial viability.

    Games such as Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines are examples of the truly amazing art form the genre can become. From betrayal to lust, infanticide to the damaged adult personalities of children who were abused, it was far and away the most epic piece of game storytelling I've ever experienced. Though also flawed by bugs at the time of launch, its biggest issue was no one talked about it, no one advertised it and it was hard to find. An amazing game studio crumbled because they released something phenomenal that couldn't be sold in puritan America. Since then, no one has even tried to launch a game with close to that depth of adult themes.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by nuzak ( 959558 )
      NC-17 is the killer of theater releases. However, it seems that "unrated version" DVD's have become a pretty widespread norm. The MPAA is losing its grip on the DVD market, and good riddance.

      • However, it seems that "unrated version" DVD's have become a pretty widespread norm. The MPAA is losing its grip on the DVD market, and good riddance.

        I think you're possibly missing what the MPAA ratings mean.

        The MPAA doesn't give a flying f*** about what movies people can or can't see, so long as its members make money.

        If the MPAA hadn't stepped in and created their own voluntary code, the government would have. By making their own voluntary code, they ensured they remained in control of it and not the government. This is exactly why publishers are supporting the ESRB ratings right now - they may not like the limits they impose but they'd much rather t

  • What's this about Sony and Nintendo not allowing Adults Only games to be made for their consoles? In the UK there were various games for the N64 rated 18 (Perfect Dark and Conker's Bad Fur Day among others) and there are several games for the Wii which are certified 18 (Scarface and MK Armageddon at least). All the GTA series (i.e. their biggest sellers) have been 18-rated on the Sony machines.

    This is the top rating in the UK - not to be sold to any person under the age of 18. If that's not Adults Only,

    • This is the top rating in the UK - not to be sold to any person under the age of 18. If that's not Adults Only, then what is?

      "Adults Only" is a rating by the ESRB - the main rating organization in America. "Mature" is more of the equivalent to your 18+ (all of the games you mentioned are rated M over here). The closest UK equivalent to AO I believe is just being banned - I believe Manhunt 2 was going to be banned there but the BBFC is probably taking another look at it now that it's been changed. America's government doesn't bother with rating media, so nothing can be banned here, but the mainstream retailers won't sell AO ga

    • Coming soon to Wii OJ Simpson's "If I did it, here's how you can to!" - , not only do you slit two people's throats using the Wii-mote, you get to drive the Bronco too!
  • I understand how Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo do not allow AO games on their consoles, or that stores such as EB et al do not sell these type of games either. But does this mean that the consoles are hard coded in some way that they check the rating for a game before it plays? Does this mean that I were somehow able to get a copy of the game (I'm pretty sure it was torrented a few weeks ago...) I could throw it into my console and play? I can't recall which is the game company and which the publisher, T
    • why can't the publisher sell the game directly minus the middle man?

      because pissing off Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo does not bode well for your future in console gaming.

      and because retailers like WalMart may be unwilling to provide shelf space for publishers pushing AO content on the side.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Kymri ( 1093149 )
      Aside from most stores (EBGames/GameStop/etc and WalMart probably make up the lion's share of retail sales, so ditching them is a bad idea) not being willing to carry AO titles, the console manufacturers won't approve a title that's AO. That means you they won't license you the necessary software for that title so that it'll run - the copy-protection and authentication stuff.

      You might have these things handy anyhow, but - two factors are at play. There's nothing at all keeping MS from requiring an update
    • Your guess is fairly accurate. The big three won't allow licensing for AO-rated software, so basically those products won't work on their systems.

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