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Games Industry Things We Should Leave Behind in '07

Zonk posted more than 6 years ago | from the so-many-things-to-keep-back-there dept.

Games 208

MTV's Multiplayer blog has a list of nine videogame concepts we should be 'leaving behind', left to rot in the now-passed year of 2007. From the countdown clocks to Halo 3, their snarky list leaves no stone unturned: "The Phrase 'Next-Gen' - Ladies and gentlemen, 'next-gen' is now. Everyone from PR firms to development studios are still using this phrase. Please, I beg of you, stop using "next-gen" until the PS4, Xbox 4000, and the Nintendo Super Wii are slated for release. Those consoles will officially be 'next-gen.' The PS3, Wii, and 360 are the current generation of games. Now is the time to accept it."

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shi8t sdsdsd FUCK (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21915816)

it's my seventh post here

Can we leave "Top # $THINGS" lists? (4, Insightful)

fotbr (855184) | more than 6 years ago | (#21915850)

Please?

Re:Can we leave "Top # $THINGS" lists? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21915936)

I have another thing to add: MTV doing non-music related events.

Re:Can we leave "Top # $THINGS" lists? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21916208)

I would also include women being allowed to vote, drive and hold jobs in fields other than food service, secretary, nurse, schoolteacher, and flight attendant.

Re:Can we leave "Top # $THINGS" lists? (2, Interesting)

mqduck (232646) | more than 6 years ago | (#21917376)

I think you're missing the point. Articles like this just serve as good jumping-off points for Slashdot discussion, which is what a lot of us are here for.

Re:Can we leave "Top # $THINGS" lists? (1)

LordKaT (619540) | more than 6 years ago | (#21917446)

They're great SEO.

How about poor supply chain management? (2, Insightful)

compumike (454538) | more than 6 years ago | (#21915866)

Nintendo couldn't keep up with demand for the Wii... and it was like that for more than 9 months! Take a look at this article from Wired [wired.com] , but still there are few answers as to why it was so bad for so long. I'd like to vote for better supply chain management in 2008.

--
Educational microcontroller kits for the digital generation. [nerdkits.com]

Re:How about poor supply chain management? (1)

jandrese (485) | more than 6 years ago | (#21915944)

9 months? From what I see their problems are going for at least 13 months now and counting. There was an article in my local paper this morning about how people were lining up in front of some store because they were getting a shipment of 100 Wiis instead of the normal 5 or 6. Apparently that store won some sort of sales contest over the Christmas holiday season and got the big shipment as a prize. The idea of seeing a Wii in stock around here is still laughable and the console has been out for over a year now.

Re:How about poor supply chain management? (1)

creimer (824291) | more than 6 years ago | (#21918784)

Supposedly they are available in my area at Fry's Electronics but only in the $500 bundle. I'm waiting for the day when I can just walk past all these piles of PS3 and 360s that no one wants to pull a Wii off the shelf. :)

Re:How about poor supply chain management? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21916454)

They've produced about 20 million in about 13 months. That's more than twice what the PS2 did in its first 13 months.

How exactly is Nintendo dropping the ball when they're vastly outperforming the PS2, widely regarded as the greatest success seen so far in the game industry?

Re:How about poor supply chain management? (1)

rhombic (140326) | more than 6 years ago | (#21917056)

How exactly is Nintendo dropping the ball when they're vastly outperforming the PS2, widely regarded as the greatest success seen so far in the game industry?

Because a year after the PS2 was released, I could go into a store and buy one. In San Diego, at least, a year after the Wii was released I cannot go into a store and buy one. They're leaving a lot of money on the table by not being able to fulfill demand (I would have bought one this Xmas for my kids, but I'm not paying $500 for Wii plus eight games I care less about). They're also on the receiving end of a ton of bad PR b/c of this bundling making their $250 console w/o HD capabilities or DVD playback cost more than a PS3. I've read that they're trying to deal w/ the bundlers, but as far as I can tell it's had no effect. Ah well, the kids may not like it as much, but I'm enjoying the new PS3 ;().

Re:How about poor supply chain management? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21918246)

Well to increase output they have to make new deals with all of their suppliers. All three of the console makers outsource their production (to the same company in fact) and it takes months for an order to increase production to be executed. On top of that, Nintendo doesn't want to ramp up production and then find out that the demand drops and leaves them with a glut of consoles, so they have to increase it a little bit at a time and watch what happens to see if they can increase it any more.

You're essentially asking Nintendo to blindly increase production beyond what they are certain they can sell even though their production is already at record setting levels.

Re:How about poor supply chain management? (1)

Runefox (905204) | more than 6 years ago | (#21918556)

Ironic, isn't it? [vgcats.com] =D

Re:How about poor supply chain management? (0, Flamebait)

immcintosh (1089551) | more than 6 years ago | (#21916606)

I always figured the Wii supply shortage was intentionally manufactured in order to create buzz. At first I could see them maybe not having anticipated the demand, but after a couple months passed and they were still rarer than hens' teeth (hell, they still are to this day at least in my area), I've come to the conclusion that Nintendo is milking what's started for the social benefits. To many it makes their console much more "exclusive" seeming than the competitors, and to that end it seems to be working wonders.

Re:How about poor supply chain management? (1)

anotherone (132088) | more than 6 years ago | (#21916798)

That's stupid. Nintendo is leaving literally BILLIONS of dollars on the table because they simple don't have the inventory to meet demand. It wouldn't make any sense to create buzz when you couldn't monetize on that buzz.

Re:How about poor supply chain management? (1)

immcintosh (1089551) | more than 6 years ago | (#21918094)

The only lost sales are those people who want one immediately and will not for whatever reason eventually buy one when it becomes finally available for them. Everything else is not lost revenue, just deferred. I would be so bold to say that the buzz which I (incorrectly or otherwise) attribute in large part to perceived "exclusivity" of the device easily offsets those actually lost sales by generating revenue in new markets previously untouched by console gaming. Again though, just my take.

Re:How about poor supply chain management? (1)

Txiasaeia (581598) | more than 6 years ago | (#21918186)

Are you sure about that? If they're producing as many Wiis as they possibly can, the only way to create more supply is by opening another factory. How many billions will that cost?

Re:How about poor supply chain management? (1)

C0rinthian (770164) | more than 6 years ago | (#21917138)

If Nintendo had any more buzz, women (and some men) would be lining up to ride it.

Seriously, the Wii is one of the hottest products of the year and Nintendo gains nothing by limiting supply this far after release.

Re:How about poor supply chain management? (1)

Stefanwulf (1032430) | more than 6 years ago | (#21917350)

The key thing to think of with regards to production of a video game console is that it's different from making more copies of a game. If a game is selling out, you call your manufacturer and they just turn some of the other DVD-writers to producing one DVD instead of another DVD. To lease a factory and retool/staff it in order to churn out new consoles is a huge investment, not to mention taking time. At every step of the way Nintendo has had to weigh the costs of underproducing against the possibility of this huge wave of demand dying off during the ramp-up time for their (actually their manufacturer's, but they'd be footing the bill) new factories. This is much easier for us looking back than it is for a businessman trying to predict what will be happening 3 or 5 months from now. I don't know how much it costs them to prepare a new manufacturing facility, so there's no way I can say where that balance between these two factors actually lies, but it's not as though a conspiracy theory is needed to explain their being cautious about something like this.

Re:How about poor supply chain management? (1)

Dorceon (928997) | more than 6 years ago | (#21917508)

You have to have buzz to sell out in the first place. Which came first, the shortage or the buzz? Also, the console you would have sold to someone if you had it in stock has an attach rate of 0.

Re:How about poor supply chain management? (1)

immcintosh (1089551) | more than 6 years ago | (#21918176)

The way I remember it, the buzz really started a couple months after the console actually went on the market. With the very low supply they sold out very quickly due to natural market demand, and that's when I really remember them becoming a big deal.

Re:How about poor supply chain management? (2, Informative)

NonSequor (230139) | more than 6 years ago | (#21918270)

The Wii sold more at launch than the PS3 or 360 though (not as much as the PS2's launch, but it did more than make up the difference after the fact).

Re:How about poor supply chain management? (1)

rtb61 (674572) | more than 6 years ago | (#21917814)

The ecomomist's would say once you have achieved sufficient buzz with the whole 'entertaining exercise game playing', you limit supply in order to maintain a higher price. It already has been categorically states that the Wii is sold at a profit, limited supply ensures that profit margin is maintained.

Naturally enough if the public becomes to aware of the inflated price being driven by an artificial limitation of supply then demand for the game will fall off, resulting in a drop of per unit pricing to maintain sales, people do not like to be scammed.

As a side issue, a lot of people are likely to stick with the sports games that came with the unit and not really wanting any others.

The other console manufacturers need to catch up and came up with similarly packaged and bundled units targeted at the 'entertaining exercise game playing' market, which seems to be a growing market segment, along with waistlines ;).

Re:How about poor supply chain management? (1)

Chris Mattern (191822) | more than 6 years ago | (#21917664)

What you mean "couldn't", kemosabe. It ain't past tense. There's no place I know of where I can just walk in and get a Wii for $250 (which is supposed to be the MSRP). I've been thinking I might like one, but I'm not paying a premium or buying one of those ridiculous bundle packs. I'll buy one when I can buy one for $250, and until then, well, I really do have a lot of other games, some of which I haven't gotten around to playing at all yet.

Chris Mattern

Re:How about poor supply chain management? (1)

Runefox (905204) | more than 6 years ago | (#21918584)

I got kind of lucky. A Future Shop (think Best Buy; they're the same company) in the city here had five consoles in stock, with one being sold as I was buying another. I managed to grab one just by walking in, and I haven't seen anywhere else with Wii stock since.

Super Wii (4, Interesting)

HoneyBunchesOfGoats (619017) | more than 6 years ago | (#21915880)

Man, I really hope they call it that.

Re:Super Wii (1)

HappyDrgn (142428) | more than 6 years ago | (#21916032)

I'm totally with you on that one! When I read that I took pause and thought, man, that's a really good name!

Re:Super Wii (0)

mlheur (212082) | more than 6 years ago | (#21916548)

What about the Wii 1024 (W1K) or the Wii HoloCube

Re:Super Wii (0)

Lost Engineer (459920) | more than 6 years ago | (#21916730)

Gamesphere FTW!

Re:Super Wii vs, Wii HD. (3, Interesting)

trdrstv (986999) | more than 6 years ago | (#21916960)

Man, I really hope they call it that.

Honestly I'm hoping for simply "Wii HD". A fully backwords compatible Wii that will display in 720p as a minimum. There would be other enhancements of course, but I think since Nintendo went "Revolutionary" with both their handheld and console I think the next generation will be "Evolutionary".

Re:Super Wii (1)

Cheapy (809643) | more than 6 years ago | (#21917036)

"Hardcore Wii: Putting the Hard back into the Wii"

Re:Super Wii (1)

UnknownSoldier (67820) | more than 6 years ago | (#21917694)

I just want proper render-to-texture support.

Re:Super Wii (1)

red_dragon (1761) | more than 6 years ago | (#21918070)

I have word from a "reliable source" that the next Wii upgrade will go by the name of Superfly Johnson (Suupaa Dankon in Japan). The bundled game will be Daikatana 2: Bigger, Longer, and Uncut.

Re:Super Wii (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21918574)

It's possible. Also in the running:
  - Wiii
  - Wii, too!
  - Wii++
  - Zii (or Zid in Canada)
  - Wii 7.0 (if they get the Sun marketing people)

Also, the controller will be even deadlier than before. Rumor is, it'll be an ordinary cardboard tube.

Re:Super Wii (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21918686)

WiiMax. Totally.

and my captcha is "retard".

The Hardcore vs Softcore arguement (2)

CrazyJim1 (809850) | more than 6 years ago | (#21915908)

I don't like people saying that people shouldn't get deep into the game as a hardcore player. I like the philosophy on board games: Minutes to learn, a lifetime to master.

The Hardcore vs Softcore arguement :-) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21917088)

"I like the philosophy on board games: Minutes to learn, a lifetime to master."

Kind of like sex.

Re:The Hardcore vs Softcore arguement :-) (1)

Sique (173459) | more than 6 years ago | (#21917682)

That's what makes them so appealling :)

Next-gen (-1, Flamebait)

fishybell (516991) | more than 6 years ago | (#21915916)

I counter that the Wii is the only real next-gen system. A generation should be counted as only systems that add something new to the board. Counting the Ps2/Gamecube as generation one (really generation 8 or whatever). The Xbox 360 and the Ps3 would be the 2nd generation as they added the significant gameplay enhancements of online play and downloadable content. The original Xbox is the abberation of gen 1.5 with minor online play as standard, but no real downloadable content push from Microsoft. Nintendo on the other hand jumped generation two to generation three with the Wii by adding both new features of the second generation and the gameplay enhancements of its user-interface.


Getting pedantic about next-gen versus current-gen is ridiculous, but I will stand firm in my belief that neither term applies to the 360 or the Ps3.

That's asinine (2, Insightful)

hudsonhawk (148194) | more than 6 years ago | (#21916166)

If you'd take your fanboy goggles off for even a minute you'd see that all 3 consoles bring something new to the table. Massive disc storage, downloadable games / content, note-perfect online capabilities, achievements, motion sensing controls, wireless everything, user chosen music, and hardware so advanced that it enables gameplay in ways that were previously limited by technology (i.e. massive streaming worlds, online coop throughout the entire game, complex physics).

Being pedantic about next-gen versus current-gen is indeed ridiculous. Assigning the title arbitrarily is even worse.

Re:Next-gen (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21916270)

> but no real downloadable content push from Microsoft

Aside from the fact that about half the movies I watch are from XBox Live Marketplace. Something your precious mario cartoonware will never do.

Re:Next-gen (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21916374)

The Dreamcast is the abberation of gen 1.5 with minor online play as standard

Fixed that for you. The original Xbox brought in the ability to play user-defined music, but in any other sense was strictly an also-ran.

Re:Next-gen (2, Insightful)

Cornflake917 (515940) | more than 6 years ago | (#21916430)

PS3 and XBox 360 do "add something new to the board." They add some really spectacular graphics for one thing. Now don't get me wrong. I'm not saying better graphics is revolutionary or ground breaking but it does add something do the previous generation of consoles. The increased processing power also adds the ability to create larger worlds, more interesting AI, and more accurate physics. I can't speak for PS3's online capabilities, but the way XBox live is integrated with the 360 is actually pretty damn cool and definately has a "next-gen" feeling to it. Example: I can be playing Eternal Sonata (single player) on my 360 and I can see if my friend from Houston starts playing Halo3 with my other friend in NY. I didn't have to do anything besides signing in to my xbl account. Being able to download High-Def TV shows and movies to watch on the XBox 360 is a new and sweet thing too. I don't recall having these capabilities with any previous-gen systems.

While I think the Wii is probably great fun for everyone, what has it added that the PS3, 360 haven't? A new controller scheme (that's not actually that new)?

Don't be an ass. All the new consoles add something new to the table that previous iterations didn't. If you one like one console over the other, good for you, that doesn't mean that the others "don't add anything to the table."

Re:Next-gen (1)

sanosuke76 (887630) | more than 6 years ago | (#21916828)

In order for it to truly be next-gen, it must become more or less a standard. While the Wii may be setting standards for motion games, it's far from making everyone go "Gee, I really wish I could control all games that way". Maybe for some folks, but for me, I look at the Wii and say, "Thank the Lord I don't have to play games that way." I figure the Wii's user interface is probably more comparable to the Nintendo Zapper for the NES. Sure, it was the first really mainstream zapper peripheral, but it didn't mean that all shooting games started using it. It just became the standard way that light gun games are controlled - it created its own genre. Fast forward to now - light gun games are available on all the major consoles, in one form or another. But people didn't try to bolt light gun controls onto games where it doesn't contribute to the game (light gun controls on Tekken? Erm, no).

Ultimately, that's the direction that the Wii's interface is headed. Sure, Wii's the only player in the game that really has the motion control thing down perfectly at present. But, eventually that'll change - just don't expect all games to switch over to motion control, because for most games it just doesn't add to the experience. And ultimately, that's what user interface design decisions should boil down to.

Top Two List of Things to Leave Behind. (2, Insightful)

Chyeld (713439) | more than 6 years ago | (#21915932)

Top two on my list: MTV (and SpikeTV, and VH1, and every other "entertainment only" network), and the idea that they have intelligible to say about the gaming industry.

The Much Needed 2007 Gaming Trash Heap (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21915974)

1. Waggle - Ok, it was amusing for a little while a year ago around the holidays. But it is time to move on. Disco and Pet Rocks and now Waggle.

2. HD-DVD - A format whose only reason for existence was Microsoft's hope of destroying any next gen movie format and thus leading movie buying/renting consumers to use their own movie download services

3. Xbox 360 - Underpowered graphics 640p last gen looking Halo 3 etc, gimped disc storage of only 7 gigs or so(small than last gen), noisy as a jet airplane from the fans and old 12x DVD drive, disc scratching and destroying drives, forced online fees, no standard harddrive, worst defect rate of any console in history. Already dead in Japan and pretty much all of Europe but kept alive by the rabid US based Halo fans.

Re:The Much Needed 2007 Gaming Trash Heap (1, Insightful)

Sciros (986030) | more than 6 years ago | (#21916164)

You forgot to put "kidnaps babies" and "slashes your tires while you sleep" under the bullshit you listed for Xbox 360.

The 9 things (4, Informative)

Jim Hall (2985) | more than 6 years ago | (#21916018)

It's a short article, but here are the 9 things for those of you who don't want to RTFA:

  1. The Phrase "Next-Gen". (It's not "next gen" until the PS4.)
  2. "Halo 3". (Similar to the above, Halo is done, the fight is finished, no need to refer to the version anymore.)
  3. Bad Virtual Console Releases. (Referring to Nintendo.)
  4. Game Delays. (I'm with him in hating delays, but good luck on that one.)
  5. Countdown Clocks. (I guess I never noticed a countdown clock on gaming web sites, but maybe that's because I don't really visit web sites for not-yet-released games. I suppose they have them.)
  6. Japan-Only Releases. (If the game is done, why not also release it in the US? Maybe it will do well, maybe not. Give it a try.)
  7. The PlayStation 2. (Please start pushing developers to the PS3.)
  8. 711 selling Video Games. (Doesn't like the idea of being able to buy a Slurpee and a video game in one stop.)
  9. Totilo and N'Gai's Love Affair. (These guys are friends and they talk about each other in their articles, but we'd like to hear more about games than the other guy.)

Re:The 9 things (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21916324)

Japan-Only Releases. (If the game is done, why not also release it in the US? Maybe it will do well, maybe not. Give it a try.)
1. Region Issues

The US is - uh, a bit puritan. Any and all references to sex must be excised, since what's a kid's game in everywhere that's not the US becomes porno in the US.

Then there's the whole "not English" thing, where the game must be translated into elementary-level English to allow the majority of US readers to understand what's going on.

2. It Costs A Lot More Than You Think

Placing boxes in stores costs a lot. Producing the box and doing marketing (even if it is only to the store) is required if you plan on having the boxes in stores.

Online-only releases can help with this, though, so hopefully we'll see more of that.

What you're really asking is for consoles to get over region-coding, and I'm all for that. But don't expect to see weird and quirky games in stores, it's just not cost-effective.

Get rid of the PS2? (1)

Doc Lazarus (1081525) | more than 6 years ago | (#21916356)

Nonsense. The PS2 has a wide library of games that Sony is more than willing to forget to market their misguided and badly handled PS3. There are still a lot of cheap yet fun games coming out for the PS2 and they should go ahead and market it for as long as possible. $20 for a PS2 game is still one heck of a deal in my eyes, and if they get cheaper as the system is eventually phased out, the better. But to dump it outright? Come on, that's just spite over a badly handled rollout of its successor.

Re:Get rid of the PS2? (1)

Jim Hall (2985) | more than 6 years ago | (#21916518)

Actually, I was summarizing the article with "The PlayStation 2. (Please start pushing developers to the PS3.)" For myself, I still enjoy the PS2, and still have several PS2 (and PS1) games that I will occasionally re-play. "Ico", "Shadow of the Colossus", and "Killzone" are at the top of the stack. "Tomb Raider Anniversary" was a great game, and I'll definitely play it again that this year.

Of course, those games really show what the PS2 is capable of. You can do some amazing things within PS2 limitations, if the developer is willing and able to put in the necessary effort.

But "Fun" is more important than "Impressive". I'd rather play a fun game with less-impressive visuals, than a less-fun game that looks awesome. For games that can do both, great. But if it's got to come down to one or the other, give me "Fun". That's why I sometimes go back to re-play "Spyro the Dragon" (PS1) and bought a copy on PlayStation Network - the graphics aren't that impressive compared to modern games, but the gameplay is so darned fun that I don't care.

That said, I'd like to see more PS3 games coming out. But fewer FPS's.

Re:Get rid of the PS2? (1)

IgLou (732042) | more than 6 years ago | (#21917522)

I wasn't a big fan of that in the article either. Support for the PS 2 is hardly something to point a stick at to Sony. Point the stick to the studios. But the reality there is there are those of us that have the PS 2, like it, still play it and have no interest at this point in moving to a PS 3.

Why don't I? Just as you say, it's about the fun and the games for the PS 2 are still fun (for me anyways).

Re:The 9 things (0, Flamebait)

iocat (572367) | more than 6 years ago | (#21916768)

Next-gen is a perfectly legitimate term to describe the PS3 and 360; it distinguishes them from the Wii and PS2, which are consoles that are still viable development platforms, but are not in the same league as the 360/PS3 in terms of graphical power.

When discussing development with publishers or other developers, there are basically three tiers: PS3/360, Wii/PS2/PSP, and DS. The first tier is usually refered to as "next gen" and that's unlikely to change for a while. Sorry if it's not semantically correct, but them's the breaks. Also, PS2 is still selling tons of software. You can hate on it all you want, but no one is going to stop making PS2 games for a while.

(There is also a fourth tier, which is demographically defined verus being capability defined, which is Wii/DS.)

Re:The 9 things - Next gen is 2012... (1)

trdrstv (986999) | more than 6 years ago | (#21917070)

Next-gen is a perfectly legitimate term to describe the PS3 and 360; it distinguishes them from the Wii and PS2, which are consoles that are still viable development platforms, but are not in the same league as the 360/PS3 in terms of graphical power.

Graphic power has no bearing when talking about "Next gen" as it is simply a meter of where we are on the evolution of Video game systems. This is the 7th generation of consoles, and being at least "2 christmas shopping seasons" into their life which makes them current gen. Next gen comes during the next hardware refresh.

Think of it this way; you and your brother both start families and have children. Your son/daughter is better looking than you are, was or ever will be. Your brother's kid isn't as good looking as yours, but is very musically inclined, and can play 9 instraments.

Both would be the next generation in your family.

Re:The 9 things - Next gen is 2012... (1)

iocat (572367) | more than 6 years ago | (#21917184)

Yeah, I understand your point, I'm just telling how the words are actually being used by publishers and developers. It wouldn't be the first time the definition of words have changed -- "next gen" now is a noun that substitutes for 360/PS3 versus an adjective that describes the forthcoming generation of game consoles. Once the PS2 dies, and there is actually a new series of consoles on the horizon (2011 says hi), I'm sure "next gen" will refer to those systems. But right now, "current gen" refers to the PS2 and Wii and "next gen" is widely uses to refer to the 360 and PS3. I'm not saying I agree with it, I understand why it's stupid, but it is the way it is.

Re:The 9 things (1)

AuMatar (183847) | more than 6 years ago | (#21918818)

Sorry, you're wrong. THe only next-gen platform is the Wii, its the only platform truely innovating. Xbox360 and PS3 are the same generation as the PS1 and PS2, the only difference is slightly more processing power- yawn.

Number Ten (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21917002)

Jack Thompson

Copy Protection! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21917076)

I know this list is targeted at consoles but being a PC gamer...
I do not buy games with copy protection. Though this has severely cut back on my game purchases. Company of Heroes being the last game I bought. And of course they applied protection to the expansion they just released (for some reason) so I will not be buying that.

Truly it's the most brain dead list in years (3, Insightful)

Moraelin (679338) | more than 6 years ago | (#21917640)

Ya know, I'm already fairly tired of "Top X Worst Y" types of list, that seem to serve the only purpose of showing that the author can talk smack. Generally. But this one is the most brain-dead and clueless I've seen in years. And yes, I did RTFA, but I'll use you summary just because I'm too lazy to write my own.

1. The Phrase "Next-Gen". (It's not "next gen" until the PS4.)


This is the only one which actually has a point, so I thought I'd give it a nod before moving on to the real offenders. Though even here, good luck getting marketers to quit using meaningless buzzwords.

2. "Halo 3". (Similar to the above, Halo is done, the fight is finished, no need to refer to the version anymore.)


Actually, IMHO your summary here is slightly inexact. What he demands is that they stop hyping and advertising Halo 3, and start hyping again when they release Halo 4. He has nothing against the version number, and his expecting a Halo 4 kinda doesn't imply that he sees the fight as finished. He's just tired of hearing about Halo 3.

Well, sadly

A) that's just capitalism in action. If MS thinks they can still sell Halo 3, how's that different from still advertising last year's model of car, or last year's CD of some band?

B) that advertising pays for some other things he's getting cheaper or for free. E.g., since the site name seems to imply having something to do with MTV, I'd like to see how MTV would survive without massive advertising. All those music videos are, effectively, advertising for whichever band the recording companies manufactured this year.

3. Bad Virtual Console Releases. (Referring to Nintendo.)


WTF? It's not like it even costs much to release a ROM for an emulator. But more importantly, what's _his_ problem there? It's not like anyone forces him to play or buy those anyway. Plus, being that they're ancient games, he should be able to find tons of reviews and whatnot.

Plus, here's the fun part: not everyone has the same tastes. What's crap for him and he doesn't want re-released, could be someone else's nostalgia moment. Even something like "Donkey Kong Jr. Math," well, why not? Some mom or dad might think that that's useful for their 6 year old.

4. Game Delays. (I'm with him in hating delays, but good luck on that one.)


Now this is truly brain dead. Those delays don't happen as some premeditated marketing ploy, they happen because people are bad at guessing the future. The fact is, even if you could know exactly how much code you'll need to write (you don't), and exactly how long it would take to _write_ it, you can't guess what bugs you'll have to fix. Therefore, nor how much time you'll spend fixing those.

Then there are the inevitable design changes. Some things it's easier to just see how it looks in the game, before you decide how you'll do it. Some things sound good in theory, but you'll find out that they suck when you sic the playtesters on it. Etc.

Sure, there are ways to make things more maintainable and reduce the surprises, but even that isn't 100% bullet proof. And good luck with getting the game industry to follow best practices anyway. Especially when:

A) you have the publisher telling you that it _has_ to be ready within X months and Y dollars, you just don't have the time or budget for UML diagrams and funky frameworks, and

B) you have to push the edge in terms of graphics and whatnot (because screenshots sell), but still have a finite budget of CPU cycles and GPU gigatexels/second, and you know everyone will moan if the frame rate is even 1 less FPS than in another similar game. So, you know, you end up doing evil hacks just to meet those constraints.

Seriously, short of hideously overestimating (which the publisher will reject from the start) or being able to see in the future, it just won't happen.

5. Countdown Clocks. (I guess I never noticed a countdown clock on gaming web sites, but maybe that's because I don't really visit web sites for not-yet-released games. I suppose they have them.)


Completely agree with you there.

6. Japan-Only Releases. (If the game is done, why not also release it in the US? Maybe it will do well, maybe not. Give it a try.)


Another WTF. It's just capitalism in action.

A US release is not just a matter of copying the CDs and seeing if anyone buys them. Localization costs a fair bit too, especially if you have cut scenes, voiceovers, lip-syncing, etc. Then there are the marketing costs. (If noone even heard of your game, it _will_ flop.) Then there's essentially paying for shelf space at the game stores to actually carry it. Etc.

So basically it boils down to: it costs X hundred thousand dollars to do that. We expect Y hundred thousand dollars in sales. If Y < X, that's it.

You can't _demand_ that a company takes a loss.

7. The PlayStation 2. (Please start pushing developers to the PS3.)


No, not exactly. He says they should outright kill the PS2.

At any rate, it's another WTF. If it still sells and makes a profit, why on Earth would any company want to kill it?

8. 711 selling Video Games. (Doesn't like the idea of being able to buy a Slurpee and a video game in one stop.)


Again, I'm left scratching my head and thinking "WTBF?" Does it also bother him that much that gas stations sell both gasoline and snacks?

9. Totilo and N'Gai's Love Affair. (These guys are friends and they talk about each other in their articles, but we'd like to hear more about games than the other guy.)


WTF? Does this even belong in this list?

Things like "Next Gen", "Halo 3", or "Playstation 2" are global things that affect the whole video game market, and every gamer has at least heard about those. Unless anyone has been living under a rock, they will have at least heard of Halo 3. A lot of people will even have their buying decisions influenced by that kind of things. (Which is why he's proposing to kill the PS2 already.)

But Totilo and N'Gai? Am I the only one who didn't even know that those existed? Exactly how's that going to affect the gaming market?

Lol Halo 3 on the list! (1)

Doug52392 (1094585) | more than 6 years ago | (#21916150)

I can't believe someone like MTV are agreeing with me on this: Halo 3 was WAY too overhyped, and ended up coming no where near good enough with all the hype. It's bad on a corperate level to put SO much hype into "new" products, then come out with a monopilized, overcharged product. Even the "ARG" for Halo 3 sucked.

# 1 should be ethernet cables! (2, Informative)

HappyDrgn (142428) | more than 6 years ago | (#21916152)

Really, I was shocked that the Xbox needed a cable running to my living room for net access. Climbing around by attic running 50ft of network cable is not my idea of a "next gen" experience. I realize that you can buy all sorts of things to overcome this, but please can we put a $5 wifi chip into so called "next gen" consoles from now on?

Arg, no (4, Insightful)

Rix (54095) | more than 6 years ago | (#21916296)

Please stop putting cheap ass wifi chips (which only support WEP) in consumer electronics. I really shouldn't have to leave my network open to all comers to use your shit.

Re:Arg, no (1)

xenocide2 (231786) | more than 6 years ago | (#21916448)

WPA is stronger encryption, but this does cut both ways. The only thing I own that only supports WEP is the DS, which I suspect was a battery life decision, as it also only runs at 2Mbps and a rather weak signal.

WEP is pointless (1)

Rix (54095) | more than 6 years ago | (#21916624)

You may as well leave the network open. It's trivial to recover a WEP key.

Re:WEP is pointless (2, Informative)

IKnwThePiecesFt (693955) | more than 6 years ago | (#21917052)

While it may not be great, WEP is a far cry from nothing. A WEP key is the difference between random neighbor going "oh, I don't have to pay for internet!" or not. 99% of the population doesn't even know that "WEP" is a kind of encryption, let alone that it's breakable.

Re:WEP is pointless (1)

trdrstv (986999) | more than 6 years ago | (#21917108)

While it may not be great, WEP is a far cry from nothing. A WEP key is the difference between random neighbor going "oh, I don't have to pay for internet!" or not. 99% of the population doesn't even know that "WEP" is a kind of encryption, let alone that it's breakable.

You can also add Mac address filtering to better secure the connection.

Re:WEP is pointless (1)

sholden (12227) | more than 6 years ago | (#21917542)

Anybody who can defeat MAC filtering can defeat WEP. Hence the only reason to use WEP is to encrypt, but anyone who knows how to snoop the transmissions can also defeat WEP. Hence WEP is useless.

Re:# 1 should be ethernet cables! (1)

WarwickRyan (780794) | more than 6 years ago | (#21916312)

Yeah, fast, reliable, extensible and relatively secure networking is really a thing of the past.

Wireless is fine if you've got no neighbors and only a device or two, but it's really a second rate solution. Especially in an environment where you've got 3+ networked devices, stream video (especially HD) or have devices which interfere with wireless (some microwaves, cordless phones, radiotransmitters).

Re:# 1 should be ethernet cables! (1)

Thanatos69 (993924) | more than 6 years ago | (#21916456)

I wouldn't use the wireless anyways. wireless internet just can't be relied on for continuous uptime. Not that you need continuous uptime but if you are in the middle of an hour long game and the wireless goes down for a couple seconds...

Next-Gen (3, Funny)

ticklejw (453382) | more than 6 years ago | (#21916206)

But if we stop using Next-Gen now, we won't have the opportunity to call things Post-Next-Gen in a few years :-(

Re:Next-Gen (1)

mqduck (232646) | more than 6 years ago | (#21917414)

Don't forget Ultra-Next-Gen and the inevitable Retro-Next-Gen revival.

Re:Next-Gen (1)

mqduck (232646) | more than 6 years ago | (#21917450)

Oh, another amusing thing: One of the main emulator sites is NGEmu.com (you know, Next Gen Emulation). And the "NG" they were referring to when the site started was the PSX.

Re:Next-Gen (0)

GrpA (691294) | more than 6 years ago | (#21917726)

Actually, lately I've been noticing the console fans referring to the PC as "Next-Gen".

During the reign of the previous kings, PS2 and Xbox, the PC didn't really accelerate that far ahead.

The PS2 came out in March 2000 and was truly groundbreaking then. This was during the era of the GEFORCE and GEFORCE 2 cards... That's still TNT stuff.
Sure, they were fast back then but certainly not the next generation.

IMHO, the first cards to really push the envelope were the R300 series ( Radeon through to 9800 ) although that was late 2003 by release and 2004 by the time people started to really buy them - just three years ago.

Although these cards had the power to bring next-gen titles to the PC, look how far behind the consoles the PCs were, and the games market was still designing games for the mid-level to low-level market - ie, still catering to people with GeForce 1 cards - still where the top-of-the-line PCs were in 2000 when the PS2 was so powerful.

The problem was that the difference in performance between low and high end cards was several orders of magnitude.

This trend continued right up until 2006, when two critical factors came together all at the same time.

Vista and Better manufacturing process for GPUs

Vista needs more resources that a high-end FPS! and that gives you just enough power to run! More so it has an exclusivity on DX10, which needs a high end card (there are no low-end card supporting DX-10). And game manufacturers are taking advantage - unfortunately in more ways that one - of this situation.

And since then, the manufacturing processes have allowed for mid-to-low end cards that perform within 30% of the speed of the present next-gen cards - and they are flooding the market. Just take a look at the specs of the new 8800GT or HD3850/3870

This results in new game engines designed to use both Vista and Next-gen cards, while not playing on older cards at all, due to constraints of memory and speed.

Think about what that means for a moment - PC gaming has taken it's first step towards a whole new paradigm - one we haven't seen since the original processor-rendered games started to support open-GL way back in the early nineties.

This means that not only have the consoles come out with next-gen consoles that are now here, the PC skipped right past them to set it's current benchmark way past the very best capabilities of the latest consoles.

Just take a look at Bioshock at HD resolution or Crysis with everything turned on. Call of duty 4 shows how realistic game AI can be made to appear.

The result is that the consoles are no longer next-gen from an industry-wide perspective.

The PC is.

And the PC is only at the current level of iteration... Newer engines designed to combine multiple CPUs and GPUs and new GPU tecnologies that should arrive in 6 to 12 months will accelerate the PC far beyond what consoles could ever be capable of.

As a result, lately I hear console owners ( PS3 and 360 ) talking about next-gen games, referring to PC games they hope they might be able to port to the consoles.

I'm sure the technology will get there as console programming techniques improve but since they don't have the raw power of a PC, they need the finesse.

At a guess, the response to Bioshock on the PC and the consoles has set a trend. If game distributers release a game multi-platform, people just buy the PC version and rubbish the consoles version now. How would you feel if you only had a 360 and your mates with PCs kept telling you how much better it was on the PC. Even if you didn't have a PC, I bet you wouldn't want to buy it.

That can't be good for console sales.

And I'm wondering if that has anything to do with the significant lateness of Assassin's Creed release for the PC.

Of course, we'll see three things happen, I beleive.

1. The PC will be locked out of some console games releases - even if it was originally due for multiplatform release.

2. The PC release will be later - later enough that it won't affect console sales of a title.

3. Some games on the PC will be dumbed down to console levels - although this is good also to an extent as it brings good games to low-end-PCs.

But the main trend has been set.

Ever since Bioshock was compared 360 to PC, the PC set to some phenomenally high resolution and specs, one conclusion is certain.

PC leading games are always next-gen for consoles.

GrpA

Misogyny (5, Insightful)

crosson (1204404) | more than 6 years ago | (#21916234)

I think one of the major barriers to the video-game industries quest for mass media acceptance is the stuck-in-the-1980s tendency to portray women as sexual objects with boys-club-only lack of shame.

Re:Misogyny (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21916328)

You mean girls don't actually look like they do in video games or anime!? Pics please. I don't believe you.

Re:Misogyny (1, Informative)

sanosuke76 (887630) | more than 6 years ago | (#21916744)

Heh, you say that as if the fangirls who play Final Fantasy DON'T get all excited about the guys. :p

Agreed (4, Interesting)

PixelScuba (686633) | more than 6 years ago | (#21917612)

Thank you, I have written about this several times. The video game industry is even worse than the film industry when it comes to trivializing and objectifying women. At least in film, women with "undesirable" figures can land parts and be leads in motion pictures... in the gaming industry, modelers and board executives create their sexual fantasies and incorporate them into the game. Damn near every female game character is some archetypal short, buxom, hyper-sexualized character to fulfill the designer, artist and players sexual fantasies. Why isn't Alyx Vance a little husky? Why is Lara Croft a sex bomb with huge breasts when her figures and career tells me should would probably be closer to flat chested and sinewy.

The video game industry is stuck being the fantasy playground of horny young males... and I don't see this terrible trend changing any time soon. Why make a realistic character when you can just model the girl of your dreams... and on the flip side, what horny male teen wants to play a game with a lead character that looks like Kathy Bates?

Re:Agreed (1)

ravenshrike (808508) | more than 6 years ago | (#21917798)

Why isn't Alyx Vance a little husky? Maybe because the lack of extremely processed and fortified nutrition combined with the fact that she runs around 24/7 means that with a normal metabolism, she wouldn't be a little husky.

Things I would love to see gone... (5, Insightful)

Hamster Lover (558288) | more than 6 years ago | (#21916276)

Recent game developments I would love to see dismissed forever:

  • Non-interactive, long, drawn out, cinematic cut scenes. Just let me play the fucking game.
  • Downloadable content that isn't downloaded but only unlocked on the game disc.
  • Unrealistic release schedules.
  • Timed exclusives.
  • Rabid fanboi 360 versus PS3 frame by frame game comparisons. I love great games on any system.
  • Shitty, utterly tacked-on Wii games.
  • The yearly $60 sports games that feature incremental improvements and roster changes. We should be able to download roster changes by now; keep major changes to the game engine to a release every couple of years.

Re:Things I would love to see gone... (1)

Cornflake917 (515940) | more than 6 years ago | (#21916558)

Non-interactive, long, drawn out, cinematic cut scenes. Just let me play the fucking game.
Some people like cut scenes. They can be fun watch (some people like the mix of interactive and non-interactive entertainment) and they can give games more depth.

Unrealistic release schedules.
Welcome to the world of capitalism where companies need to keep consumer confidence high in order to do well in the stock market.

The yearly $60 sports games that feature incremental improvements and roster changes. We should be able to download roster changes by now; keep major changes to the game engine to a release every couple of years.
Not going to happen. If a game can guarantee profit, it will be made. Regardless, I think you can download roster updates for many sports games on next-gen systems.

Re:Things I would love to see gone... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21917302)

Some people like cut scenes. They can be fun watch (some people like the mix of interactive and non-interactive entertainment) and they can give games more depth.
Then buy a fucking DVD player, and toggle inputs between the two. Same experience, but you don't make real gamers sit through cutscenes or, more infuriatingly, sit through twice the loading time so the cutscene can load and then the actual GAME can load.

When I buy a game, I intend to buy a fucking GAME and not some developers delusional attempts at playing Hollywood Director. Every second I'm not actively playing is a second I'm annoyed. Loading times I can put up with (to a degree), but cutscenes are just worthless.

And as for "giving a game more depth", go play Half-Life 2 and tell me that cutscenes are necessary to give a game depth.

They're not. They're just lazy.

Re:Things I would love to see gone... (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21918694)

Same experience, but you don't make real gamers sit through cutscenes... When I buy a game, I intend to buy a fucking GAME...
Totally, I feel the same way about nouns in books. Who needs 'em? I bought the book for the fucking VERBS. I wish they would stop making real readers sit through all this noun, pronoun, preposition, conjunction bullshit.

Re:Things I would love to see gone... (5, Interesting)

antic (29198) | more than 6 years ago | (#21916868)

- Cut scenes that you can't skip (hello Assassin's Creed!)
  - Game trailers that are 50% intro material, 30% outro and all of 20% actual game footage
  - Proper reviews from people that have played the full game (e.g., Gamespot's review of Assassin's Creed neglects to mention a questionable ending and how annoying it gets to hear "Please sir, can I have some money?" or townspeople being hassled by guards)

Re:Things I would love to see gone... (1)

UnknownSoldier (67820) | more than 6 years ago | (#21917782)

> - Cut scenes that you can't skip (hello Assassin's Creed!)

- Usually it is the idiotic publisher that mandates this to the developer. It sucks.

- For in-game cutscenes, sometimes it is a lazy developer (programming pointing the finger at designers :) because they don't have the time to verify none of the game scripts break the game when they are skipped.

But I agree, dam annoying, especially when you are playing the game for the 2nd, 3rd time -- completley KILLS replayability. If I wanted to watch a movie, I would of rented one!

..."Recent" game developments? (1)

metroid composite (710698) | more than 6 years ago | (#21917190)

"Non-interactive, long, drawn out, cinematic cut scenes.": Over 10 years old.

"Unrealistic release schedules.": I don't even know how old that one is.

"Timed exclusives.": 30 years old, and usually done for budgetary reasons.

"Rabid fanboi 360 versus PS3 frame by frame game comparisons.": 30 years old [intellivisionlives.com] , albeit with different systems, and less in-detail, but I do remember fairly detailed comparisons of SNES/Genesis.

"The yearly $60 sports games that feature incremental improvements and roster changes.": 10+ years old.

I mean, not that these aren't good points; I agree with most of them. Seems weird calling them "recent", though.

Re:Things I would love to see gone... (1)

Jack9 (11421) | more than 6 years ago | (#21917530)

Non-interactive, long, drawn out, cinematic cut scenes. Just let me play the fucking game.

Final Fantasy is BASED on this nowadays. There's no reason to throw out something there's a healthy market for. People like to watch.

Why not 7-11? (2, Insightful)

log1385 (1199377) | more than 6 years ago | (#21916326)

I don't see what's wrong with buying video games at 7-11. It's just a vendor providing merchandise in a new context.

Re:Why not 7-11? (2, Insightful)

cowscows (103644) | more than 6 years ago | (#21917032)

Just another gamer nerd trying to pretend that his ultra cool and elitist hobby hasn't become a mainstream activity for bazillions of ordinary people.

Halo 3? (1)

Thanatos69 (993924) | more than 6 years ago | (#21916514)

"Halo 3
Let's all just agree that the fight is finished. No matter what happens after the end of the credits in "Halo 3," we all should be done with this and move on. If you want to continue playing multiplayer, that's fine, but the marketing blitz, the soda, the Burger King promotion, and everything else that came along to hype this bad boy should all be left in 2007, not to be seen again until "Halo 4" inevitably comes out.


I don't know if it's different down in the US but I haven't heard anything about Halo 3 for the past month or so with the exception of adverts in the walmart flyer.

Game Delays are some times better then pushed out. (2, Insightful)

Joe The Dragon (967727) | more than 6 years ago | (#21916594)

Game Delays are some times better then pushed out carp that is not ready and feels like it is still in Beta.

If it means pushing people to work 80+ hours a week that just leads to buggy code then delay it so the game works and let QA / beta have time and alot of differnt systems to test on.

From the Wishful-Thinking department (4, Insightful)

FlyByPC (841016) | more than 6 years ago | (#21916726)

Things in the gaming world I'd like to see a lot less of in 2008:

  • If-it-moves-shoot-it games. Portal was really cool. How about more innovative games like that?
  • Emphasis on online games. (Aren't geeks supposed to be antisocial?)
  • Handwriting-based mind games (this means you, Brain Age!)
  • Sports games.
  • Internet-required-to-play or disc-required-to-play security. Including Steam -- although the ability to download a game across the 'Net is very cool. What, are you trying to make us download a cracked copy??
  • Console-only games. I'd bet PCs are more popular than any one console...

Re:From the Wishful-Thinking department (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#21917854)

Internet-required-to-play or disc-required-to-play security.
Internet requirements are extremely lame - fuck you, publisher, I don't feel like being spied on every time I play your stupid game. (Valve and Steam are the worst - as demonstrated by their survey, where they apparently collect how people play through the game.)

But complaining about requiring the disk? That's completely ridiculous.

Yeah, requiring the disk has completely killed the portable and console markets, both of which require the player to insert the game disk/cartridge. That's why PC games dominate, and console markets are dieing.

Oh, wait, it's completely the other way around! People are used to needing to use a disk to play. That's like complaining about be required to insert the DVD to watch videos.

Seriously, complaining about requiring the disk is just lame. Console players don't mind needing the disk, DVD watchers don't mind needing the disk. Why should PC gamers be special?

Re:From the Wishful-Thinking department (1)

4D6963 (933028) | more than 6 years ago | (#21918322)

Console players don't mind needing the disk, DVD watchers don't mind needing the disk. Why should PC gamers be special?

For the same reason why PC gamers would be pretty pissed off if the latest FPS could only be played with a gamepad? That means because a PC isn't a fucking console, quit comparing apples with oranges goddamnit.

No game delays means suckier games (3, Interesting)

LrdDimwit (1133419) | more than 6 years ago | (#21917080)

Games get delayed for lots of reasons. Setting aside notoriously pathological cases like DNF, games get delayed often because the development needs more time. I for one would much rather wait, and get a better game in the end, than put up with shovelware.

Take Zelda. The developers learned the hard way that hitting the release date was less important than finishing the game. The Wind Waker was in danger of missing its street date ... so they cut two dungeons that weren't going to be finished in time. Everyone involved now admits that was a big mistake, which led to Twilight Princess' very long incubation period. Just look at the results -- Twilight Princess knocks the socks off of Wind Waker, and many people feel it took the Zelda 64 formula and perfected it.

Interesting tidbit: after Wind Waker turned out the way it did, the director of the game wanted to let the series end there. This is the guy Miyamoto handed the series off to after he didn't want to be forever tied to it anymore, and he wanted to throw in the towel! (I'd pull out a cite, but I gotta run.)

Yeah. Delays suck. And when it's for a reason other than 'the game needs more time', they REALLY suck. But to just say 'there should never be a delay!' is to ignore the deeper reasons why delays happen, and that would be catastrophic.

Re:No game delays means suckier games (1)

LingNoi (1066278) | more than 6 years ago | (#21917366)

Even with those points there isn't a need for a delay. If your game is less then 90% done then don't go around screaming that it'll be out by X.

The movie industry doesn't throw out a ton of advertising on a half finished film, but the games industry does this. I'm calling it naive.

Re:No game delays means suckier games (1)

Damocles the Elder (1133333) | more than 6 years ago | (#21918646)

There's a difference between "Not delaying" and "Not giving an unrealistically early release date that's inevitably going to get pushed back". And with that, which one of the following looks better?
  • We're releasing the game on May 5th! Oh, wait, no, we're releasing it on June 5th. Nope, wait, we're releasing it sometime in August. Wait, no, expect it in Q1 2009."
  • Expect a release date some time Q3 2009. Oh, wait, our dev team was on the ball! Expect a release date in Q1 2009.

I say it every time, but... (5, Interesting)

CelticWhisper (601755) | more than 6 years ago | (#21917266)

Save points.

This absolutely retarded convention should have disappeared with the Genesis and SNES. Why is it, when I was playing Doom on my 486 back in 1994 and could save (and QUIT...you know... STOP PLAYING ) whenever I wanted, that I have to wait 20 minutes until I get to a magical spot blessed by the video game pope before I can save my game and turn off my Playstation 2 , a system that is orders of magnitude more powerful than the save-on-the-fly-capable PC on which I was fragging zombies?

Attention developers:

  • Girlfriends happen
  • Friends happen
  • Dinner happens
  • Fatigue happens
  • Storms happen, at least in my region, and as a result...
  • Power outages happen
  • And frankly, me getting sick of playing during a given session happens

And sometimes I want or need to stop playing on a moment's notice. I don't really want to leave the console on eating up power and running up my electric bill, and I also don't want to lose hours of gameplay (some JRPG dungeons do last that long) because you assholes thought it would be cute to not let me save my game and do something else. Your game is not the only thing in the world I want to do for fun, and moods can change, especially after long sessions. Furthermore, I know you can do save-anywhere because SaGa Frontier, LUNAR, and Persona 2 all did it on the PS1.

Death to save points in 2008. Long live save-on-the-fly.

Re:I say it every time, but... (1)

The_mad_linguist (1019680) | more than 6 years ago | (#21918648)

Meh, I prefer save points. It ensures that the developers will put in safe areas (nothing sucks more than quicksaving a fifteenth of a second before being shot), and if they're plentiful enough it shouldn't make a difference in time.

I do agree that in RPGs you should be able to save just about anywhere you want outside combat, but it doesn't really make that much sense in other games. As long as there are enough save points that you never have to backtrack more than ten minutes, I'm fine with it (Cave Story is a good example of how to use savepoints well.)

Re:I say it every time, but... (1)

springbox (853816) | more than 6 years ago | (#21918786)

If you're restricted into saving less often then it can make games more interesting. Bioshock would have been less of a joke on hard if the ability to save and load at any point in time was removed. It has its problems but I think it's actually an interesting element of design.

my list (1)

J-1000 (869558) | more than 6 years ago | (#21917728)

  • Joypad controls for FPS games
  • Exclusive sports licensing agreements
  • Cartoon nudity
  • Movies based on video games (does that count?)
  • Invasive copy protection schemes
  • Strategy guides
  • Gamestop
  • Gamespot
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