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MADD Targets GTA IV Over Drunk Driving Scene

timothy posted more than 6 years ago | from the inability-to-distinguish-real-life-from-pretend dept.

Censorship 703

eldavojohn writes "The watch-dog group Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD) has set its sights on the rating of GTA IV, primarily because a player can drive drunk in the game. MADD released a statement saying that 'Drunk driving is not a game, and it is not a joke. Drunk driving is a choice, a violent crime and it is also 100 percent preventable.' MADD also is asking Rockstar Games to consider removing GTA IV from distribution 'out of respect for the millions of victims/survivors of drunk driving.' Rockstar replied to MADD by saying 'we have a great deal of respect for MADD's mission, but we believe the mature audience for "Grand Theft Auto IV" is more than sophisticated enough to understand the game's content.' As expected, Jack Thompson is making his usual attention-whoring remarks by comparing GTA IV to the polio virus."

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703 comments

Wow... (2, Insightful)

Uncle Focker (1277658) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263084)

As expected, Jack Thompson is making his usual attention-whoring remarks by comparing GTA IV to the polio virus."
Won't someone finally lock this guy up in a mental institution? This man seriously needs therapy.

Re:Wow... (5, Insightful)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263162)

My opinion on this mirrors the opinion of many others. I personally WANT Jack Thompson to be running around acting like a moron. Yes, there are some people that listen to him...but the kind of people that listen to him would share his opinion even if he wasn't around.

The reason I want him to run around acting like a moron is this: as long as someone like Jack Thompson is the most vocal anti-video game person out there, we as gamers are safe. We are in trouble when someone comes around that can actually put together a cohesive argument instead of the "Video games cause deaths! Just because!" type of argument. By him being this way, once again, the only people that listen to him are the ones that already have the same opinion.

I would seriously doubt Thompson has been very successful in changing the opinions of folks insofar as video games are concerned.

Re:Wow... (1)

mweather (1089505) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263276)

There is no cohesive argument to be made against video games.

Re:Wow... (1)

autocracy (192714) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263366)

Unfortunately, there are still convincing arguments, even if they're not sound. Keep us safe, Jackie boy. Stay over the top.

Re:Wow... (1)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263390)

That's not true. The problem is that most vocal critics of video games blame the games. BZZZT! This is wrong.

If Jack Thompson was instead crucifying parents who don't monitor the entertainment their young children participate in, and focused on the fact that games like GTA IV are for adults and not their 8 year old child...THEN he would have something that I would agree with. Considering how loud he complains, if he complained this way, then I think his message would get through.

But, that doesn't seem to be what his opinion is, making this post completely pointless :-(

PR advice (3, Insightful)

Gription (1006467) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263354)

Maybe someone should tell MADD that they would probably have better luck getting their message out if they didn't take positions that are somewhere between sophomoric and insane.

If they really think that people are so completely unable to distinguish games from reality then they should understand that it means that people are so stupid that they can't be educated to stop drinking and driving anyway.

Re:Wow... (1)

sesshomaru (173381) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263350)

This man seriously needs therapy.
You know, normally I'm opposed to electroshock therapy... but in his case...

Re:Wow... (2, Insightful)

omeomi (675045) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263462)

Won't someone finally lock this guy up in a mental institution? This man seriously needs therapy.

Somebody should offer to either have his grandchildren play GTA IV for an hour or be infected with polio. I wonder which one he'll choose. Oh wait, I know which one he'll choose. He'll choose the one that isn't the horrible, crippling virus. If I were a polio victim, I'd be horribly offended by his remarks.

Dear MADD, (1, Insightful)

w.p.richardson (218394) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263090)

Shut up.

Sincerely,
Everyone

Re:Dear MADD, (1)

R2.0 (532027) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263342)

PS: They repealed the 18th Amendment. Really - go look it up.

Dear Rock star (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23263396)

MADD's request, paraphrased:

"Please stop selling your flagship product in which you have invested a great deal of time and resources."

I am pretty sure they didn't actually expect Rock Star to comply...the request is clearly unreasonable. And while I agree that drunk driving in real life is a serious problem and should be resisted...this stunt has made me lose respect for MADD.

Re:Dear MADD, (5, Insightful)

Shakrai (717556) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263412)

Shut up.

"Shut up"? I'd go with "Fuck MADD". Seriously. An orginization that started for a fairly laudable purpose (combating drunk driving and assisting the victims of it) has turned into a neo-prohibitionist organization that spends as much time demonizing alcohol as it does fighting the problem of drunk driving. Even the original founder got fed up with the group and left. She was quoted as saying something like 'I didn't start MADD to deal with alcohol. I started MADD to deal with the issue of drunk driving'.

This is an orginization that encourages practices that are (IMHO) un-American. Practices like random police roadblocks (normally associated with military directorships), implied consent laws (5th amendment, what?) and my personal favorite: Getting the drinking age raised to 21. Gotta love the irony -- you can get married, join the military, sign a contract and borrow money from the bank -- but you can't legally purchase booze. Yeah, that makes a whole lot of sense. Besides which, you could make the argument that this is counterproductive in terms of reducing drinking -- prohibit something and you just make it that much more attractive for teenagers.

Recently I heard that they've come out in favor of mandatory ignition interlock systems for all automobiles -- not just as a punishment/deterrent for those previously convicted of DUI. Yeah, I should have to pay extra money for my car and blow into a tube every time I want to start it just because a small minority of people make stupid decisions and drive drunk.

Want some sanity on this issue? Take a look a the DUI positions [motorists.org] of the National Motorist Association. Turns out there are ways to combat the problem of drunk driving that don't involve shredding our civil liberties or demonizing alcohol.

Awesome (0)

baker_tony (621742) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263102)

Awesome, you can shoot cops in the head in the game, but drink and drive? Fuck that!!!

Re:Awesome (5, Informative)

MozeeToby (1163751) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263298)

What's even more ironic is that the game specifically says "Driving in this condition is a bad idea, better call a cab". The scene in question is designed to teach you how to use the cabs in the game. If you drive anyway the police will arrest you, even open fire on your car if hurt someone and refuse to stop. The game is actually very clearly anti-drunk driving.

Isn't that what GTA's about (1)

Gay for Linux (942545) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263104)

"a violent crime [that] is also 100 percent preventable." thanks, welcome to the world of grand theft auto.

Feh. (4, Insightful)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263110)

The whole point of video games is to do things that you couldn't possibly do in real life safely. In my opinion, MADD should be ENCOURAGING people to drive drunk in GTA IV, using this logic:

"See how much harder and more dangerous it is to drive drunk? And this is just in a video game...imagine what would happen if you did it in real life."

Re:Feh. (2, Insightful)

kalirion (728907) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263134)

Until somebody gets so good at driving drunk in the game that they feel they can handle it in real life ^_^

Sam Kinison says... (1)

Lilith's Heart-shape (1224784) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263174)

We're gonna drink, we're gonna drive, and we're gonna pull it off. Because we do it every single fuckin' night.

Re:Sam Kinison says... (1)

mweather (1089505) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263292)

How'd that work our for Sam?

Re:Sam Kinison says... (1)

Lilith's Heart-shape (1224784) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263332)

Just fine. He's with Jesus now.

Re:Feh. (2, Funny)

TripMaster Monkey (862126) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263212)

I agree...after all, that's exactly what happened to me with San Andreas...I got so good at running over drug dealers and stealing their loot I thought I could handle it in real life...

</snark>

Re:Feh. (1)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263244)

I know that some abilities gained in video games can translate to real life (better observance from playing FPS, better reaction times from playing Ninja Gaiden, etc.) if you think you could be a better driver in real life from driving in a video game using a thumbstick...well, you deserve to die in a fiery crash. The gene pool doesn't need that kind of person contributing.

Same goes for a racing wheel. Even if the technology advanced to the point where you could "feel" the road in the steering wheel like in a real car, the ability to truly simulate what it feels like to drive a real vehicle (the forces on your body, what you hear, feeling the four different tires through the steering wheel, etc.) is many MANY years away...we would likely have self-driving cars before that technology came about, making driving ability moot.

YMMV, IMHO, and all that noise...

Re:Feh. (1)

autocracy (192714) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263424)

My biggest complaint is I still SUCK at car racing games. The number of walls I plow into by going way too fast into the turn... well, too many. Tactile feedback makes a HUGE difference, and the lack of Gforce experienced in a video game makes me useless. As for my car? Well, I'm part of the 80% of Americans who consider themselves to be above average drivers. I'm not sure what percentage I'm part of that can intentionally slide the car through turns, or understand apexing, but I'm sure it's a minority.

Re:Feh. (1)

Rampantbaboon (946107) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263466)

I've gotten so good at it in real life that I think I can handle it in the game now.

(I might have something backward)

Re:Feh. (1)

jellomizer (103300) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263478)

Normally I hear people rationalize their drunk driving like, "I Drive better when I am drunk" or "When I am drunk I am sure to drive more carefully". It is not well I could do it in a vedio game. Because while you are sober and playing a game of the guy driving drunk you still have your reflexes and clear though to adjust to the more difficult driving in the game. But it is not the game it is the people who rationalize what they do in real life.

Re:Feh. (1)

geekoid (135745) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263226)

You should send them an email with that advice, it's pure gold.

Re:Feh. (1)

LighterShadeOfBlack (1011407) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263242)

"See how much harder and more dangerous it is to drive drunk? And this is just in a video game...imagine what would happen if you did it in real life."
Yeah it's way harder to run down pedestrians while drunk. I'm staying sober tonight!

Re:Feh. (1)

contrapunctus (907549) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263338)

Maybe someday people will learn that doing stuff like this (or condemning a movie, etc) will only provide free advertising for the targeted company.

Re:Feh. (1)

mpe (36238) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263368)

The whole point of video games is to do things that you couldn't possibly do in real life safely.

Including things which are criminal. Indeed the title of the game (and the three which came before it) is a criminal act.

In my opinion, MADD should be ENCOURAGING people to drive drunk in GTA IV, using this logic:
"See how much harder and more dangerous it is to drive drunk? And this is just in a video game...imagine what would happen if you did it in real life."


There is no way for the game to tell if a player is drunk (or otherwise intoxicated) all the game can do is make the controls work less well. Just as happened in Nethack with a "potion of booze" 20 years ago.

There's also the factor that if someone is "driving drunk" in a game they are not driving anything in the real world. Even without the addition of drugs motor vehicles are the most dangerous machines most people are able to get their hands on.

Re:Feh. (1)

Pojut (1027544) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263422)

There is no way for the game to tell if a player is drunk (or otherwise intoxicated) all the game can do is make the controls work less well. Just as happened in Nethack with a "potion of booze" 20 years ago.


Not true. World of Warcraft is a perfect example of this. Underneath the "skin" of the game, there are algorithms that determine how much you have drunk. This may be my imagination, but I have noticed that the larger races take more alcohol to get them drunk. And when they are REALLY drunk, it can make it harder to see what is going on (camera sways, gets all blurry, etc.) It doesn't change the controls, it simulates the difficulty in walking straight.

Other than that, I fully agree with you...especially the last part. Cars are more dangerous than guns, in my opinion. The chances of surviving a gunshot to the body are much higher than surviving a car slamming into you center mass.

In other words: (5, Funny)

ODiV (51631) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263118)

MADD condones drive-bys as long as you're sober?

Re:In other words: (1)

Maximum Prophet (716608) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263140)

Sure, don't shoot while drunk. You might miss.

I don't know about M.A.D.D (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23263126)

But I'm a member of Drunks Against Mad Mothers!

Reality Check (4, Insightful)

db32 (862117) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263128)

Because the drugs and guns and carjackings aren't choices that are violent crimes right? This is stupid. This is also coming from the worthless group that lobbied to allow the federal government to extort money from the states if they didn't raise the drinking age. Feds collect income tax from state residents, then refuse to give the money back unless the state (who is supposed to be the final authority within its own borders) complies with what the feds want them to do. So screw them, I only hope that one day these people will shut the hell up.

Don't mistake me, I think they have a good cause, they are just a worthless bunch of whiners. For example, I think stopping all abortions would be a wonderful cause, but doing it through a massive expansion of education and adoption is a far better way than parading around with dead fetus signs, mailing plastic fetuses, making it illegal, or any of the other abhorrent things the anti-abortionists do.

Re:Reality Check (1)

geekoid (135745) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263326)

They had a good cause, they got what they wanted. Logically, It's time to close up shop; However there in it for the power now.

Re:Reality Check (1)

mpe (36238) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263468)

This is also coming from the worthless group that lobbied to allow the federal government to extort money from the states if they didn't raise the drinking age.

Is there any evidence that doing this is actually effective at reducing the number of drunk drivers? There are plenty of other things which could be tried. Including raising the driving age (and seeing if there is any effect depending on relative drinking and driving ages). There is also harsher punishment of people caught driving whilst drunk. (Including charging them with murder if a bystander is killed.)

So they don't like it... (1)

nweaver (113078) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263130)

When your character is able to get drunk and discovers that he DRIVES LIKE SHIT!

I remember the drunk mission in Vice City. Man, that was HARD!

However: (1)

Yoooder (1038520) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263146)

"Drunk driving is a choice, a violent crime and it is also 100 percent preventable." Yes, but killing pedestrians, cops, other motorists, and doing swan dives out your windshield @ 80mph when sober is just fine in the game--that's all unavoidable!

Heh (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23263148)

I'll bet MADD really wouldn't have liked how I spent last Friday night.

Have you ever driven so drunk that you have to cover one eye to keep from seeing double?

To Hell with MADD. (1)

Lilith's Heart-shape (1224784) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263150)

Don't these fascists have anything better to do? I am not a fan of GTA, but I still think this is ridiculous. Is MADD that desperate to remain relevant?

Re:To Hell with MADD. (1)

zappepcs (820751) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263330)

No, actually they don't have anything better to do. If they really wanted to stop drunk driving they would be offering free taxi rides for people. What they want to do is just complain and have the nanny-state take care of everything they are afraid of.

In truth, there are thousands of things in this life that will kill you or hurt you badly and we can't run around having the nanny-state take care of all of them for us. Sure, make sure your kid is wearing a helmet and pads before going down a slide in case he falls, lock down the internet to protect us from bullies, make 1/3 of all citizens cops with tasers so no one can do any wrong, make tv and video games so docile that nobody ever even thinks violent thoughts.....

Sure, that's all going to work about like it has before historically... which is to say not at all. Prohibition does NOT work. at. all. period. ever.

No matter what you prohibit it will not work. Only education, community, and information stops bad things like this. It is well documented on the web where more guns means less gun crime, legal drugs means less drug use, more nudity means less sex crimes, etc. etc. etc.

*'means' == leads to, or is associated with

This is just one more attempt to legislate morality and that can never be done successfully. ever.

Sure, MADD is upset, and perhaps they have a right to be. They do NOT have the right to limit MY rights to make themselves feel better. What comes next? Perhaps we should stop all RAP music as that is bad examples for kids. And for FSM's sake, make Ms Spears stay out of the public eye. While we are at it, lets make all beauty contestants have a healthy BMI before they compete! Drug test all top models. Lets do background checks on all politicians and news anchors.

This is just another attempt by one group to legislate the morality of everyone else for their own benefit. If Jack is on their side you know they are crackpots.

I have great hopes that they are slapped on the wrists and sent home very quickly over this one.

a not entirely off topic thought (2, Insightful)

cptnapalm (120276) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263154)

Has anyone ever noticed that anytime something is labeled "Adult" or "Mature", it is almost inevitably juvenile?

Re:a not entirely off topic thought (1)

Maximum Prophet (716608) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263260)

Sure, kids want to be adults and older adults want to be kids again. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

The people who make Adult content are just capitalizing on this phenomenon.

Re:a not entirely off topic thought (1)

morari (1080535) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263362)

It very often times is when it comes to video games at least...

Re:a not entirely off topic thought (1)

Danse (1026) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263374)

Has anyone ever noticed that anytime something is labeled "Adult" or "Mature", it is almost inevitably juvenile?
I think the idea is that if you're mature enough to recognize that it's juvenile, then you can be expected to handle it ok. Otherwise, you're likely to do something stupid like try to imitate it in real life. Just because it's juvenile doesn't mean it's not fun :)

Ahem (-1, Redundant)

imstanny (722685) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263158)

MADDness?! This --- is ---- Sparta!

Now all we need is a hole in the ground and Gerard Butler.

Re:Ahem (1)

Lilith's Heart-shape (1224784) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263194)

Let me get my shovel. I'll start digging while you find Mr. Butler.

This makes sense (1)

Drakin020 (980931) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263160)

Sure the killing and running people over is fine....But drunk driving oh hell no!

Also have you tried to drive drunk in the game? It's not even possible...You would think that would set a good example.

Rating (1)

bstamour (1053588) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263168)

It's rated M for a reason. There are things in the game that might not be good for kids, fine, don't let them play it. I doubt that a mature player's outlook on drunk driving will suddenly change after playing a video game.

Drunk Driving (1)

duerra (684053) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263178)

I wonder how many of those MADD crazies saw 40 Year Old Virgin. They sure made a joke out of drunk driving, and I never saw the movie generate this kind of negative publicity.

Do your reactions slow in the game? (1)

Maximum Prophet (716608) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263182)

So, if you are virtually drunk in the game, do your reactions get slower, do you crash more, and when you try to shoot the cops, do you miss?

If so, MADD should applaud this game, as it shows why you shouldn't be drunk. On the other hand, if when you get drunk there are no consequences, then they can complain.

Re:Do your reactions slow in the game? (1)

BUL2294 (1081735) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263340)

On the other hand, if when you get drunk there are no consequences, then they can complain.
What, you aren't a better driver when you're drunk?

Re:Do your reactions slow in the game? (1)

Winckle (870180) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263460)

Absolutely, the camera blurs, your handling worsens. In fact a box pops up suggesting you phone a cab instead of drunk driving.

Like my old boss used to say (1)

icedcool (446975) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263186)

"Nothing like drinkin and drivin."

Seriously though.... usual fud. I like rockstar's reply.

Exact Opposite of What Should Have Been Said (5, Insightful)

Kilzfire (932216) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263196)

That's funny last night I was thinking the exact opposite of what the MADD organization came up with. I mean the game tells you look this is NOT safe you really should get a taxi. And I not actually knowing how to hail a taxi yet decided to risk it. Sure enough it was a BIG mistake. The car was insanely hard to control I got within viewing distance of one patrolling policeman and he called in a ton of them to put me out of commission. I think Rockstar came through in this virtual world with a true to life scenario showing that drunk driving is not the way to go. I was thinking the whole time...next time I will take the cab this is crazy! What a waste of my time as I had not saved the game recently!

By that logic ... (1)

eck011219 (851729) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263200)

... they should have pulled GTA3 out of respect to the families of people who were chased down like dogs on the street and chopped to bits with a chain saw.

Personally, the game is too unpleasant for me. I have GTA3 and play it occasionally, but found it to be a little too gratuitous for even my leathery brain. And I can certainly see how people would object to the drunk driving aspect of it (if nothing else, it doesn't seem like it would be crucial to the plot, and therefore seems to be added for shock value rather than gameplay).

But man, if there was ever an example of the slippery slope argument, this would be it.

Drunk driving isn't a choice (2, Funny)

Malevolent Tester (1201209) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263202)

It's a way of life. Goddamn dipsoaurigaeophobic bigots

Re:Drunk driving isn't a choice (1)

geekoid (135745) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263380)

dipsoaurigaeophobic ?

WTH?
Fear of earth dips?

Re:Drunk driving isn't a choice (1)

Christopher_G_Lewis (260977) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263416)

Did you make up that word?

If so, my hat's off to you:

Dipso [reference.com]
dipso /dpso/
-noun, plural -sos. Slang. a dipsomaniac; habitual drunk.

Aurigal [reference.com]
Au*ri"gal\, a. [L. aurigalis.] Of or pertaining to a chariot. [R.]

attention-whoring (3, Funny)

frovingslosh (582462) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263206)

As expected, Jack Thompson is making his usual attention-whoring remarks by comparing GTA IV to the polio virus."

And, as usual, Slashdot is helping him get even more attention. I want to go on record here and now asking Slashdot to pull this story, out of respect for all of the attention-whoring victims that this jerk has already affected.

Re:attention-whoring (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23263328)

I want to go on record here and now asking Slashdot to pull this story, out of respect for all of the attention-whoring victims that this jerk has already affected.
What are you talking about?

Pwned (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23263220)

That was a pretty badass response from Rockstar.

Agreed (1)

marcgvky (949079) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263222)

All of these organizations try to hit YOUR hot buttons to elicit an emotional response, garner attention AND increase donations. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop paying attention and stop PAYING them. They will eventually go away when their funds dwindle. When groups like these go away (and I include environmental extreme groups), we can begin to have a more effective dialogue about the real issues.

Going public causes more harm than good... (1)

Starturtle (1148659) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263234)

Surely MADD must realize that by going public like this Rockstar gets a ton of free high-profile publicity. Was nobody at MADD aware of GTA III and it's free publicity from various advocacy groups?

Re:Going public causes more harm than good... (1)

howdoesth (1132949) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263378)

Surely MADD must realize that by going public like this Rockstar gets a ton of free high-profile publicity. Was nobody at MADD aware of GTA III and it's free publicity from various advocacy groups?
GTA IV isn't exactly hurting for free high-profile publicity. Every major news outlet had pretty extensive coverage of the release.

Re:Going public causes more harm than good... (1)

Danse (1026) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263456)

Surely MADD must realize that by going public like this Rockstar gets a ton of free high-profile publicity. Was nobody at MADD aware of GTA III and it's free publicity from various advocacy groups?
You're assuming that MADD's intentions were something other than gaining publicity for themselves...

No different than movies... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23263250)

There's drunk driving in movies too. Does this mean we should ban movies as well? I don't see them complaining about the movies.

Thank you Jack Thompson (1)

damn_registrars (1103043) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263252)

I hadn't had a good laugh in a while. Grand Theft Auto IV vs. Polio is a good one.

Next could you evaluate Mohammad Ali versus Anti-lock brakes for us?

Drunk Driving in GTA IV (1)

Stormcrow309 (590240) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263258)

As an academian, which rhymes with comedian (think about it), that has played that scene, I am appalled by..... MADD. While I will never drive when drunk due to the death of a couple of friends right out of high school, I have played many games with a glass of glenmorangie sherry cask, including driving games. I have always worried about some idiot who thinks they can drive PGR while drunk translates to being able to operate a real car. The trying to drive drunk in GTA is very hard and made me think, 'there is NO way I will get behind the wheel drunk.' I think people need to get over themselves and understand the game designer's vision when making that scene.

Saw this coming (1)

esocid (946821) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263266)

After playing GTA4 last night, I totally saw this coming after playing the part where you get drunk with Roman and have to stumble back to your (any) car. It's actually harder to walk than it is to drive, and you in fact sober up on the way, magically, but it is in fact somewhat harder to drive.

Having said that, it's completely asinine that anyone would seriously think this encourages drunk driving, any more than it encourages stabbing people or jumping off of a building, or running from the police, or....... you get the idea, I wish those old bags would too.

Re:Saw this coming (1)

esocid (946821) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263318)

Totally forgot this until I read it:

Players also have the option of hailing a taxi or walking.
I believe it actually says some encouraging advice that you take a taxi, but it's still a choice just like in real life. Stop bitching about shit like this because you have nothing better to do.

Re:Saw this coming (1)

Xtravar (725372) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263450)

I actually failed the drunk driving mission. Miserably. So much so that I will be taking Roman to the titty bars instead from now on.

The moment I got in the car, the cops were after me. Not only that, but I waited long and... Roman still had not gotten in the car!

The cops ended up chasing me around the block. My car came to a complete stop several times due to immobile objects in my way - I couldn't even drive slowly it was so wobbly.

Before the booze wore off, I got a message that said, "You left your friend behind!" Mission failed.

I agree with the people that say MADD should endorse this aspect of the game, because I've never, ever had such a hard time driving tanked as I have in GTA4. While it's a pretty good simulation of what it's like, it's definitely not THAT hard.

Rockstar gets more free publicity... (1)

WonkoS (1263280) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263268)

It's like they actually *planned* this.

Not a game? (4, Interesting)

JustinOpinion (1246824) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263272)

Drunk driving is not a game, and it is not a joke.
True enough. Regular driving is also not a game (in fact, "using a vehicle as a toy" is explicitly illegal in most places). However having a video game involve driving (even reckless driving) isn't a problem, is it?

Drunk driving is a choice, a violent crime and it is also 100 percent preventable.
Many forms of entertainment describe crime. Books and movies depict theft, murder, rape, etc. Many video games involve killing or worse. These are all, in real life, choices and preventable crimes. Does that mean that our fiction and entertainment cannot involve these subjects, out of some sort of "respect for the victims"?

Rockstar's response is right on the money: adults should be able to distinguish between entertainment/fantasy/fiction (where murder may be depicted, or drunk driving may be a game) and reality (where these things are illegal and unethical). Adults who cannot make those distinctions are a danger to society (regardless of what video games are on the market).

Go ahead and get it right (1)

RegTooLate (1135209) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263278)

They don't make you drive drunk in the game. They give you a choice. When you get in the car, the character even says he should get a cab instead, it is hard to drive and the cops are all over you. I thought they did a good job of discouraging you from driving like that.

When did MADD cross the line... (3, Interesting)

BUL2294 (1081735) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263294)

...from an organization with a noble cause to a right-wing, Prohibitionist, Evangelical, whiny group that would desire a socialist nanny-state with breathalyzers in every car? I mean, sheeeesh!!!

Re:When did MADD cross the line... (1)

CSMatt (1175471) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263480)

Just about the time they got the National Minimum Drinking Age Act passed.

Again people that don't play the game... (1)

Brownstar (139242) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263300)

> Drunk driving is a choice, a violent crime and it is also 100 percent preventable.

It is, and RockStar even makes that clear, when the first Drunk Driving Mission occurs.

After you stumble out of the bar, the game pops up a note telling you that you are drunk, and maybe you should think about taking a cab home (which you can do in the game).

If you decide to break the law, and not take a cab, the police are automatically notified and after you (unlike real life where they most likely won't notice until you break another law).

What next : Crash Test organisations? (1)

s0litaire (1205168) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263302)

I'm just waiting for then Euro-ENCAP or the US equivalent to complain that the Crashing of the cars is not realistic enough. That people can't just walk away from flying head first through a wind shield after hitting a cop car at 100Mph... That you can't use a car to bash 20 - 30 cars into pedestrians and still be able to drive it away.. Or something just as stupid....

All Driving Games have Drunk Driving in them (3, Insightful)

sesshomaru (173381) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263316)

How to play:

1. Imbibe alcoholic drink of choice until plastered.

2. Put driving game of choice in console (or have non-inebriated person do it for you).

3. Play game.

This works just as well with GTA IV (or Vice City) as with Mario Kart.

Disrespectful (1)

Starturtle (1148659) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263322)

If I become intoxicated and play a driving game like Need For Speed would that be disrespectful too? To be safe I should just stick to playing intoxicated Halo 3..

This Game is Rated M (1)

pete-classic (75983) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263324)

"Contains content that is considered unsuitable for children under the age of 17."

I'm 32. I drink. I drive. I don't combine the two in real life, but I do in GTA IV.

Why shouldn't I be able to play this game? It let's me be very naughty without risk to myself or anyone else. What's the problem here?

As in interesting side note, I'm totally uninterested in lap dances in real life, but I think they're really cool in the game. I think these things are related. In real life I'm concerned for the other people involved. In the game they're all virtual.

-Peter

In related news... (1)

fahrbot-bot (874524) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263336)

The group Drunks Against Mad Mothers (DAMM) has again politly asked the moms shut up and stop bothering them while they're trying to drive...

Seriously, friends don't let friends play video games drunk. Stay in school.

MADD's real motive... (4, Informative)

zerofoo (262795) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263346)

MADD's founder broke with the group in the 1980s:

MADD founder Candy Lightner broke ties with the group in the 1980s. In 2002, she told the Washington Times: "[MADD] has become far more neo-prohibitionist than I had ever wanted or envisioned ... I didn't start MADD to deal with alcohol. I started MADD to deal with the issue of drunk driving."


MADD is a bunch of nutcases that want ANY amount of drinking to be illegal. If we let these special intrest groups take our freedoms away, one by one, we will no longer be a free people. Our founding fathers would be ashamed.

Games are just that - games. They are a convenient way to explain what would otherwise be called bad parenting.

-ted

Neo-prohibitionists (1)

MikeRT (947531) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263356)

MADD has frequently championed limit after limit after limit on drinking rights. That's why, quite frankly, I could care less what they have to say because they've used up all of their political capital between advancing authoritarian laws and practices, and acting like having lost a child gives you some sort of "moral credibility or authority" on drunk driving.

I think the average GTA player realizes that pretty much nothing in GTA is something they should emulate in real life. Considering the consequences for drunk driving in many jurisdictions, this is just shameless self-promotion on MADD's part.

You *are* presented a choice. (1)

mckinnsb (984522) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263360)

You can walk home in GTA IV- nothing is forcing you to take a car. Unless you are walking through a dangerous neighborhood, this is usually the best bet. I believe you can also call a cab (although I haven't done that yet.)

Preventative measures (1)

Mental Maelstrom (1268890) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263370)

I wonder whether the next Microsoft Windows Malicious Software Removal tool will address this issue...

MADD sponsored Drunk Driving Simulator? (5, Informative)

spookymonster (238226) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263384)

http://www.autoworld.com/news/Dodge/Neon_DD.htm [autoworld.com]

"Chrysler has found a safe way to demonstrate this dangerous situation to teen drivers with the Neon Drunk Driving Simulator, a specially equipped Dodge/Plymouth Neon that mimics the effects of driving after drinking alcohol.

Sponsored by Chrysler Corporation, Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD), the U.S. Department of Transportation, the National Association of Broadcasters and local Chrysler Corporation dealers, the Neon Drunk Driving Simulator will travel to more than 250 schools. The vehicle has made more than 2,100 public appearances in more than 200 cities since the program began in 1988. To date, over 750,000 people have tried the Simulator.


So... it's OK to let people experience the negative effects of drunk driving in a real car, but in the safety of your own living room? NEVER!!!!

Already arrested (1)

BigKahuna (41476) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263388)

I was arrested for drunk driving in GTA4 already. A couple hours after I started playing my cousin wanted to go out drinking. Afterwards, the game warned me to get a cab, but I didn't listen. I got right back on my motorcycle (which I had parked on the sidewalk). Driving drunk actually wasn't that difficult -- I went slower so I wasn't wiping out all the time (note that on the way there I missed a turn and wound up trying to climb a wall, causing me and my cousin to fall off and ragdoll on the planter... oh, and I'd probably broken most traffic laws on the way there, including speeding, running red lights, reckless endangermant, vehicular homicide, leaving the scene of an accident, etc.). For some reason the cops could tell I was drunk and started chasing me as soon as they saw me. I couldn't get away or even shoot accurately. It was bad because I lost my gun and some money. Let this be a lesson to all of you.

Dear MADD... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#23263398)

You are fucking retarded. You can kill people with guns in this game, as you can in innumerable other video games. That is also a violent crime that is 100% preventable. Apparently simulated murder is ok for 17 year olds, but you have to be 18 to simulate drunk driving.

Remember, this is the same group of self-righteous soccer moms that got the Federal government to hold highway money hostage to get states to raise the drinking age to 21. Clearly logic is not their strong suit.

Victims? (1)

techstar25 (556988) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263402)

Well, they should also remove murder, carjacking, and prostitution out of respect for those victims as well.

Just kidding. We all know that prostitution is a victimless crime. ;)

Sense of Reality Please (1)

Comatose51 (687974) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263418)

"Drunk driving is not a game, and it is not a joke," MADD said in a statement released Tuesday. "Drunk driving is a choice, a violent crime and it is also 100 percent preventable."

Right and like war, gun fights, etc. are jokes? Yet they're portrayed in movies and games. Violent crime? Give me a break. By that logic so is jaywalking. Can they both lead to violent accidents but they're not of themselves violent.

Impressions... (1)

MaWeiTao (908546) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263428)

I'd prefer it if people stopped trying to defend the game, because honestly it comes off as a bit ridiculous. The game is extremely violent and about engaging in illegal activities.

Why should we have to defend the game? I wish someone would just come out and publicly state, "Yes, the game is loaded with questionable subject matter. So what? I enjoy playing that kind of game, what right do you have to prevent me from doing so?"

To be honest, and I can't help but wonder if I'm the only person who feels this way, but I think GTA 4 has been getting far more attention than it deserves. The way reviewers describe the game I'm left with the impression this is the best game ever. Nevermind that it essentially follows the same formula as the last several GTA games. And there have been quite a few other games that have provided a more complete open-sandbox experience than has GTA4, Morrowind, Oblivion, Shenmue and most MMOs to name a few.

Reading various blogs, I feel like the reaction to GTA4 is similar to kids learning their first swear or discovering a porn magazine. Many gamers say they want mature themes in their games but then seem to react immaturely when they get it. Then there's the whole thug/gangster appeal of the game. The thug has become the anti-establishment rebel of our time, at least in American culture. Except that the thug doesn't actually stand for anything.

I'm sure this will elicit quite the zealous response from the game's fans. The game is fun, without a doubt, but I just don't think it's worthy of the praise and attention it's gotten.

Actually (2, Funny)

kellyb9 (954229) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263438)

The drunk driving scenes didn't seem so bad to me, then again I was drunk.

Stupid (1)

old_skul (566766) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263442)

Because driving drunk is so much worse than killing people with guns, running them over with stolen cars, and becoming a crime lord.

Rockstar should make a fucking "Drunk Driving Expansion" which involves consuming mass amounts of liquor, and scoring points by running down innocents. Extra points for single Christian moms.

Give me a break (1)

acloutie (1275518) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263446)

"Drunk driving is not a game, and it is not a joke. Drunk driving is a choice, a violent crime and it is also 100 percent preventable." Now I haven't played GTA IV but I'm ready to bet that the game has more content about murder than drunk driving. I guess they're fine with people "joking" about shooting off people's limbs and evading police officers. C'mon MADD if you're going to rip on GTA at least find something a bit more sensible than a car moving with blurred vision... With that mentality then maybe WoW should remove the alcoholic beverages from their game cause it's encouraging the minors that play to drink... or even worse... drinking and flying... I sure hope pilots don't play WoW...

Lets be honest. (1)

kellyb9 (954229) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263474)

Who didn't see this one coming? Lets not get so upset about it, because in the end, nothing will happen. This game is clearly designed for adults - its only been sold to adults - its content isn't any worse then that of movies that are currently being released (actually, in most cases, the content is better). Let them have their say - nobody is listening anyway.

MADD has no credibility. (1)

jcr (53032) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263488)

They have no problem with politicians driving drunk [reason.com] , but they want to bitch about pretending to drive drunk in a video game?

-jcr

It's been hard to take MADD seriously... (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 6 years ago | (#23263492)

...ever since the founder of a MADD chapter had to resign over a DUI. But the simple truth is that they are not anti-drunk-driving, they are a temperance union. MADD's founder is actually disgusted with where the group has gone as a result.
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