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Mechanical AI Made In LittleBigPlanet

Soulskill posted more than 5 years ago | from the somebody-make-a-quake-3-LBP-port dept.

PlayStation (Games) 65

Laurens writes "Despite slow sales of LittleBigPlanet in the USA, you might have heard of the calculator made within the game, but now that has been topped. I found a fully-functioning AI machine which plays Tic-Tac-Toe against the player. Considering that you can't actually program in LBP, this feat is impressive; it is a machine which has mechanical AND and OR ports made of pistons and proximity detectors, a physically moving Program Counter, and hundreds of wires. The level is called 'Tic Tac Toe' and is by author Cristel." Another player created a similarly amazing level that is a recreation of John Conway's Game of Life.

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The most powerful... (5, Insightful)

binaryspiral (784263) | more than 5 years ago | (#26181885)

I find it very interesting, and somewhat ironic, that the most powerful home gaming console in history has people programing in mechanical gates.

Very cool indeed.

Re:The most powerful... (2, Informative)

Hardness (990225) | more than 5 years ago | (#26182077)

And LBP is the only way that the Hypervisor (the babysitter OS in the PS3) will let you access the full 3D capabilities of the system for homebrew development! (Of course, Sony owns anything you make...)

The most powerful...Mr Mom. (2, Funny)

Ostracus (1354233) | more than 5 years ago | (#26182383)

And LBP is the only way that the Hypervisor (the babysitter OS in the PS3) will let you access the full 3D capabilities of the system for homebrew development!

(Of course, Sony owns anything you make...)

I just made a baby. Glad I don't have to support him.

Re:The most powerful... (1)

kyrre (197103) | more than 5 years ago | (#26183019)

Yeah. Except for a unknown game called Unreal 3 [unrealtournament3.com] . The Playstation 3 version support mods.

Re:The most powerful... (1)

Hardness (990225) | more than 5 years ago | (#26186153)

But can you use it to make a LBP mod? ^__^

Re:The most powerful... (0)

joocemann (1273720) | more than 5 years ago | (#26182167)

I find it very interesting, and somewhat ironic, that the most powerful home gaming console in history has people programing in mechanical gates.

Very cool indeed.

Unless you were trying to make a joke, I'm not sure if you understand the difference between how games are made for the PS3 (by developers/producers) and how a user-level-creator within a specific game is being playfully used to expand the frontier of possibilities of that construct.

Re:The most powerful... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26182229)

I find it very interesting, and somewhat ironic, that the most powerful home gaming console in history has people programing in mechanical gates.

Very cool indeed.

Unless you were trying to make a joke, I'm not sure if you understand the difference between how games are made for the PS3 (by developers/producers) and how a user-level-creator within a specific game is being playfully used to expand the frontier of possibilities of that construct.

What the hell are you talking about? What exactly do you think he doesn't understand?

Re:The most powerful... (5, Funny)

Antity-H (535635) | more than 5 years ago | (#26182965)

It seems the irony of using an amazingly powerful digital computer to emulate a simple mechanical computer is completely lost on you ...

Re:The most powerful... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26185237)

perhaps I can explain it better

Its like rai-ay-aiiinn on your wedding day

Re:The most powerful... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26195523)

YO DAWG, we heard you like computers so we put a Turing engine in your Turing engine so you can compute while you compute.

They could take this a huge step further (4, Insightful)

StreetStealth (980200) | more than 5 years ago | (#26182203)

The minor resurgence of interest in mechanical computers brought about by LBP is pretty cool, but I think Media Molecule could really latch onto this and offer some excellent DLC for the advanced users.

Mechanical computers are fun to watch, but they require lots of level space as well as complex physics simulation to perform even the most basic operations. Here's where an expansion pack could pick this trend up and run with it: Add the ability to build little breadboards with transistors. Now there's no physics overhead, and just imagine the stuff you could wire up!

Re:They could take this a huge step further (5, Insightful)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 5 years ago | (#26182327)

Here's where an expansion pack could pick this trend up and run with it: Add the ability to build little breadboards with transistors. Now there's no physics overhead, and just imagine the stuff you could wire up!

That would remove all the charm of these hacks. What's really cool about such mechanical machines is that they demonstrate computer science in a visual manner. Even we professionals who know that computers != electronics are wowed to death when we see a mechanical computer large enough to watch its operation and see its inner workings. (Even if it is virtual.) Imagine what it's like for those not familiar with computer science? Such a massive computational machine is beyond their belief, even if it performs a simple task. It hearkens back to 60's scifi where computers are monstrously large creations that have incredible brain power. It's pretty cool stuff!

Replace all the mechanics and physics with a few virtual circuit boards and you remove all the charm. The levels stop being machines of wonder and go straight back to their black boxes. To the average user, a circuit board in the game is nothing but a fancy script.

Re:They could take this a huge step further (2)

Antity-H (535635) | more than 5 years ago | (#26182981)

Would it be possible to make the Antikythera http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism [wikipedia.org] in LBP ?

Re:They could take this a huge step further (4, Interesting)

_xeno_ (155264) | more than 5 years ago | (#26183761)

No. That involves gears. These mechanical computers don't use gears, and there's a good reason for that - the physics simulation doesn't quite work for gears.

The way it works is that when the game has decided that an object has been sufficiently crushed by another object, it just deletes it in a puff of smoke. (It's a kind of neat effect.) Creating gears, sadly, causes them to crush each other as the game tries to figure out how to make them spin. They have pre-crafted gears and I tried to make a simple set of three gears turned by giving power to one gear - and it worked for like three seconds before the game decided one of the gears had been crushed and deleted it.

For added nuisance, it's next to impossible to "anchor" the gears dead-center since you're using a PS3 controller. You can turn on a grid to try and help you, but it doesn't help that much.

Re:They could take this a huge step further (3, Insightful)

fictionpuss (1136565) | more than 5 years ago | (#26184313)

You can get gears to work reliably if you scale them all down by one grid unit to allow centering. If you scale them by different amounts though, the teeth will grind in that effect you mentioned.

Re:They could take this a huge step further (1)

Justin Hopewell (1260242) | more than 5 years ago | (#26203901)

Gears do, in fact work, its just a lot of trial and error. The cogs that you can win in the game work, but I wanted to create my own gears for an elevator design. Basically I have this elevator that looks a bit like a spine. There are nubs that stick out the sides that fit inbetween the gear teeth, which pushes the spine upwards. I made a gear by just winging the angles and it worked on my first try. There are some parts where it gets a little rough and shaky, but it does work. If those rough parts lasted a bit longer, I imagine my pieces would break, but as it stands there's just enough time for it to orient itself before breaking apart.

Re:They could take this a huge step further (1)

Justin Hopewell (1260242) | more than 5 years ago | (#26203967)

I'm not sure you could make that device. When I saw the video last week, the first thing I thought of was whether or not it would be possible to create in LBP. However, I imagine that there are several layers of gears within that box, more than the seven layers the game lets you use. Maybe not, though. Either way, you'd need some kind of blueprint to start with.

Re:They could take this a huge step further (2, Insightful)

cyb3rdemon (1098575) | more than 5 years ago | (#26189691)

GMod by itself is already so much better than this. With Wiremod, it's incomparable (a radar or an automatic turret are one of the easier machines to make. With skill, you could make an AI robot or a car that converts to a boat on water.) For those who don't know, GMod is a modification for Half-Life 2 that allows you to spawn and manipulate the game's objects, and use motors, constraints, and other tools to make contraptions, vehicles, puzzles, and random fun stuff. Wiremod is an extension of GMod that gives you over 100 logical gates, sensors, and tools to make much more complex devices than can be easily done in Gmod. You could do something as simple as wiring a button to a radio transmitter and a receiver to an explosive to make a radio-controlled bomb. If you're advanced, you could use the CPU (programmable in ZASM) and text screen to make a console control panel. You really could get amazing results at any level of knowledge. With games like this, I wonder what it is that makes LittleBigPlanet so revolutionary. Everything it does has been done before and done better.

In the Future... (5, Funny)

wasmoke (1055116) | more than 5 years ago | (#26181893)

I can see it now:
Posted by JConnor on April 21, 2011, @08:45PM
Another Mechanical AI Made In LittleBigPlanet
John writes
"This new AI, playfully named Skynet, was created to help students in Africa reach for the sky and learn to play checkers. Support this effort by downloading the fun new application."

Re:In the Future... (1)

FredFredrickson (1177871) | more than 5 years ago | (#26196219)

Based on the turk 2.3 code...

Hooray for Life (1)

FooAtWFU (699187) | more than 5 years ago | (#26181905)

The Game of Life thing is awesome. Now he just needs to use it to simulate a Turing machine [rendell-attic.org] . Then the universe can implode.

Re:Hooray for Life (1)

tolan-b (230077) | more than 5 years ago | (#26183727)

I was going to post about this myself, I wonder if there's a limit on the number of components you can put in an LBP level (probably) and if so, whether you can put enough components to create a large enough Game of Life board to fit a Turing complete pattern in... (probably not, but I want to believe ;)

Re:Hooray for Life (3, Informative)

ais523 (1172701) | more than 5 years ago | (#26184151)

It's impossible to fit in a Turing-complete pattern without infinite space; any finite amount of space is not enough. Although the pattern itself could be finitely large, it would try to modify things outside its own location as part of its processing. (Access to an infinite amount of memory is one of the things required for Turing-completeness; that's why the term "bounded-storage machine" exists, referring to something like a real-world computer which is Turing-complete except for limits on its storage.)

Is anyone playing this game? (-1, Troll)

VinylRecords (1292374) | more than 5 years ago | (#26181953)

What's so appealing about LBP and making terribly restrictive levels when you could be modding something for Fallout 3 on the PC or even playing Metal Gear Solid/GTA etc.?

I don't understand the appeal of this game at all. People creating Mario levels in the LBP environment...why not just play the actual Mario instead?

Re:Is anyone playing this game? (5, Funny)

Conspiracy_Of_Doves (236787) | more than 5 years ago | (#26182107)

Look up at the top of the page and read the smaller words just to the right of the site name. "News for nerds"

You might be a gamer, and after looking at your comment history I note that you're even a tech. But if you don't see the appeal in making things like this, then you aren't a nerd.

Re:Is anyone playing this game? (1)

MrHanky (141717) | more than 5 years ago | (#26183181)

Slashdot ceased being a nerd site the moment "can grandma use it?" became a valid question in any software discussion ... back in 1999. I find it interesting that the GP is marked 'troll' when in other discussions, a similar point might be +5, insightful. But now that the machine is simulated in a game environment, it's back to being 'nerdy' in the Slashdot sense. Really, Slashdot is just a consumer site for gadget freaks.

Re:Is anyone playing this game? (-1, Flamebait)

repvik (96666) | more than 5 years ago | (#26183425)

Slashdot ceased being a nerd site the moment you signed up.
The OP is really just being a stupid troll. Who the heck gives a flying fuck about fallout, metal gear solid, gta? Just because he doesn't understand it, doesn't mean it isn't cool/great/awesome/nerdy. It just means he's plain stupid. Kinda like you are being right now.

Re:Is anyone playing this game? (1)

MrHanky (141717) | more than 5 years ago | (#26183597)

Seriously, if you had read through what you just wrote, you would probably not post it. It's just a bunch of rambling nonsense. Here's a hint for you: when I say it might be '+5 insightful', that doesn't mean I support it. Most of the highest rated comments on Slashdot are groupthink.

Re:Is anyone playing this game? (1)

Lemmy Caution (8378) | more than 5 years ago | (#26197817)

"Can Grandma use it" is an excellent nerd question, if it is in the context of "how can *we* design it so Grandma can use it."

Re:Is anyone playing this game? (1)

MrHanky (141717) | more than 5 years ago | (#26198669)

Except of course that on Slashdot it's always asked by a whiny wannabe who thinks that if any idiot (himself) can't use it, then neither should anyone else. There's never any specific follow-up as to what should be done, just that grandma should be able to use it, and use it "out of the box". It's as helpful as telling Barack Obama that people should be rich and happy.

Besides, producing things for general consumption has never been the way of the nerd. The nerd tweaks his tools to do stuff it's not supposed to do, for himself. Not because it's useful, or makes life easier, but because you have to see whether it can be done. Nerdiness is a kind of technological and scientific playfulness (usually combined with a magpie-like attitude to knowledge within a specific field), not the marketing director's feeling for what consumers "want". Thus, you get pieces of software like Konqueror instead of the far simpler yet underpowered and authoritarian Nautilus or Finder (or Dolphin).

Re:Is anyone playing this game? (5, Interesting)

Vectronic (1221470) | more than 5 years ago | (#26182149)

Some people like to produce, others, like yourself, just suck.

And still others, really enjoy seeing how complicated of a maze they can get out of, making a mod for Fallout, or GTA is fairly easy in comparison, and from another perspective its too infinite, a lot of people like a small, finite, "controlled experiments", where the results are in direct relation to the input, whereas Fallout/GTA/et al, generally have a point and click type design.

Same reason why some of use will fire up an IDE and program a utility we need, and others will just go Google for one they can download, sometimes the means is more enjoyable than the ends.

And no I didnt forget to check Post Anonymously.

Re:Is anyone playing this game? (0, Offtopic)

MBraynard (653724) | more than 5 years ago | (#26182355)

Similarly, I've often considered getting a PhD in archeology and looting the burial grounds of ancient civilizations.

Re:Is anyone playing this game? (4, Insightful)

Tokerat (150341) | more than 5 years ago | (#26183013)

They finally start making video games where you're free to make whatever you want, like a Mario Paint you can walk around in, like what we all wanted when we where kids...

...and you're SHITTING on it?

You, sir, are no gamer. No flame intended, but you'd rather be part of an interactive movie than play a game. This is a game for real gamers.

Not everyone knows how to mod Half-Life 2, but anyone can pick up LBP.

Re:Is anyone playing this game? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26183725)

...and you're SHITTING on it?

Uh, yes?

Like the subject says, is anyone actually playing this game? Because the sales figures don't lie - the answer is "no, not really."

Yes, the "professional" critics all gave the game large marks, but if you look at user reviews, you'll see a different story. It's at 6/10 for user ratings on Metacritic. It's tanked in sales. No one is playing it.

And you know why? Because it's crap.

Level editors aren't new. They've existed pretty much since video games started containing actual levels. I remember creating new levels for a simple sidescroller back in 1985.

I also remember creating levels for a much more complicated sidescroller in 1995 called Abuse, and it was infinitely more fun than LittleBigPlanet - because it didn't artificially restrict what you can do. It actually allowed you to program new objects in LISP. Now that was a great platform for creativity.

But here's the thing - because they, too, focused a little too much on the whole "level editor" thing and not enough on making a fun game, the game tanked and the company folded.

LittleBigPlanet is even worse.

In order to gain access to the items required to create levels, you must play the single player levels. Sort of. You'll actually need three friends playing with you if you want to collect everything. And they need to be friends, since you actually need to coordinate what you're doing. If you want to do this online, that means shelling out extra for the PS3 voice headset since there's no way you'll be able to use the other chat features. And that's just to get the items that you can use in your own levels. And by "items" I mean things like "materials" which make up the levels.

Abuse didn't put you through that crap. You got everything at the start. But wait, with LittleBigPlanet, it gets EVEN WORSE!

In LittleBigPlanet, you have to PAY to get certain addons for the level editor. Yep, PAY. There's currently a "Christmas level editor pack" on sale for $3.

But wait - if people use it to create levels, that means that EVERYONE has to have the resources in it in order to play those levels.

So, in effect, you're paying $3 to gain access to stuff that everyone already has to download.

So the level editor is crap and Sony is nickel-and-diming you for actual content. Can it get worse? Of course!

All this ignores that the sidescrolling part of LittleBigPlanet is crap. There are lives in this game. But wait, it gets worse. At each checkpoint, the number of lives resets to four. But wait, it gets worse! If you're playing multiplayer, everyone shares the same set of lives! There's no need for that crap. It means if you're actually playing with four players, you get ONE shot at sections that involve everyone moving in tandem.

But beyond that, it's a very generic sidescroller. There's practically nothing to do in the levels other than race to the end. The only reason you'd go hunting for collectibles is to extend your capabilities in the level editor, and that's just lame. Compared to Super Mario Bros. or Donkey Kong Country or other classic sidescrollers, the game just sucks. And since the level editor isn't powerful enough to allow the creation of really new content - it just kind of sucks too.

fuckin troll (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26185215)

feel bad about owning a xbox 360 eh?

also, lbp is a very fun game, reminds me of the classic platform games

Re:Is anyone playing this game? (1)

Cruciform (42896) | more than 5 years ago | (#26187485)

But wait - if people use it to create levels, that means that EVERYONE has to have the resources in it in order to play those levels.

Actually you only need the addon content to create the levels. Users can play the level and use the content, they just can't save it for their own use.

Re:Is anyone playing this game? (1)

Tokerat (150341) | more than 5 years ago | (#26296599)

I agree with the AC below. This is a total troll.

If you think charging for add-on content is a rip off, perhaps you should buy an X-Box and pay for Live, where they then charge you for...wait for it...add-on content!

And since the level editor isn't powerful enough to allow the creation of really new content - it just kind of sucks too.

Wow, posted on the article about how the level editor is so versatile you can even create mechanical computers in it. That's trolling at it's worst, you've forgotten the subject at hand! Lame.

Yeah, but... (0)

The Orange Mage (1057436) | more than 5 years ago | (#26181963)

...wait until the level gets taken down by Sony with no explanation!

Re:Yeah, but... (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26182173)

...wait until the level gets taken down by Sony with no explanation!

Why the hell would they do that?
Let me guess, because you think they're evil right?

Re:Yeah, but... (0, Troll)

online-shopper (159186) | more than 5 years ago | (#26183545)

How about because they've demonstrated themselves to be cocks who'll fuck over anybody they think has something they want.

Re:Yeah, but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26185537)

Because they've already done it multiple times, including with levels that contained 100% original content.

Sony has said that if the level can be considered offensive to anyone, anywhere, it can be deleted with no recourse, and that they're not responsible for informing anyone why levels were deleted.

It's been a big news story on places that care about PS3 games, so it's not surprising very few people have heard about it. But it's the #1 reason not to bother with LBP: the only reason to play in the first place is to create custom levels, and Sony has been deleting them left and right with no explanation.

Re:Yeah, but... (2, Informative)

StreetStealth (980200) | more than 5 years ago | (#26182307)

Actually, they just overhauled the system [kotaku.com] complete with a protocol for explicitly citing the violation and an opportunity to edit and republish.

Ahh, Youtube comments (5, Funny)

Protonk (599901) | more than 5 years ago | (#26182091)

They make me feel better about the level of discourse here at /.

*BSD's final Christmas (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26182125)

Spirit," said Scrooge, with an interest he had never felt before, "tell me if *BSD will live."

"I see a vacant seat," replied the Ghost, "in the poor chimney-corner, and a crutch without an owner, carefully preserved. If these shadows remain unaltered by the Future, *BSD will die."

"No, no," said Scrooge. "Oh, no, kind Spirit! say it will be spared."

"If these shadows remain unaltered by the Future, none other of my race," returned the Ghost, "will find him here. What then? If it be like to die, it had better do it, and decrease the surplus operating system population."

Scrooge hung his head to hear his own words quoted by the Spirit, and was overcome with penitence and grief. It was sad to see any operating system die, even one so obviously flawed and useless as *BSD.

God bless us, every one.

Fun news, but old news... Starcraft? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26182141)

All of this was done very extensively within concentrated groups of use-map-settings Starcraft map makers. There was one calc map capable of simple math and even algebra. There were also chess, custom user built skill sets and spells that were tagged to your controllable character. this was in no way part of the original game. There was one which my friend made that you could paint pictures, make animated minimap clips, stage firework displays, and even play short movies drawn with sprites and explosions set together pixle by pixle.

All these things were controlled by simple move, kill, spawn, and count triggers which were all linked to areas the player would position a controlable unit to start whatever programed trigger set was needed. we had hidden computation areas of the maps where creatures would spawn and die and move to work the trigger math out. we used a simple center view trigger to prevent these from being viewable(lagged like nuts with thousands of creatures spawning and being moved etc.

this is cool and all but its not really NEW news.

Re:Fun news, but old news... Starcraft? (2, Insightful)

Trahloc (842734) | more than 5 years ago | (#26182973)

Sounds awesome, would have been great if you provided a link instead of doing the whole cranky "get off my lawn" routine.

Re:Fun news, but old news... Starcraft? (1)

Tokerat (150341) | more than 5 years ago | (#26183027)

Any possibility of posting some of this on YouTube? Sounds fun...

Re:Fun news, but old news... Starcraft? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26183215)

Even Starcraft is old news. Didn't someone do this in Doom? (Can't find the link, alas.)

Re:Fun news, but old news... Starcraft? (1)

AkaKaryuu (1062882) | more than 5 years ago | (#26183535)

The topic title is key here. A mechanial device was built. Starcraft was nothing more than editing triggers and hit points to create scenerios.

Firehose:Skynet Comes Online, Becomes Self-Aware (1)

dupper (470576) | more than 5 years ago | (#26186921)

All of this was done very extensively within concentrated groups of use-map-settings Starcraft map makers. There was one calc map capable of simple math and even algebra. There were also chess, custom user built skill sets and spells that were tagged to your controllable character. this was in no way part of the original game. There was one which my friend made that you could paint pictures, make animated minimap clips, stage firework displays, and even play short movies drawn with sprites and explosions set together pixle by pixle.

All these things were controlled by simple move, kill, spawn, and count triggers which were all linked to areas the player would position a controlable unit to start whatever programed trigger set was needed. we had hidden computation areas of the maps where creatures would spawn and die and move to work the trigger math out. we used a simple center view trigger to prevent these from being viewable(lagged like nuts with thousands of creatures spawning and being moved etc.

this is cool and all but its not really NEW news.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church%E2%80%93Turing_thesis [wikipedia.org]

Does it know the winning move though? (1)

dodobh (65811) | more than 5 years ago | (#26182309)

And will the next version play a nice game of chess?

Re:Does it know the winning move though? (2, Funny)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 5 years ago | (#26188143)

No. I want to play Global Thermonuclear War.

Wire wrap, the headache. (3, Interesting)

Animats (122034) | more than 5 years ago | (#26182317)

Brings back memories of wiring up 7400 series TTL gates with a wire-wrap gun. I wonder how they developed the thing. It would be amusing to write a back-end for a VHDL compiler or a logic simulator to generate logic in LittleBigMan devices. Probably easier than trying to debug the thing inside the game.

Danny Hillis once made a Tic-tac-toe machine out of Tinkertoys and string. I've seen the thing. I'm amazed that it worked. He once told me that it didn't work very well.

Re:Wire wrap, the headache. (2, Interesting)

waferbuster (580266) | more than 5 years ago | (#26186481)

Years ago, I read a book called "The Adolescence of P1," which included mention of how to teach matchboxes to play tic-tac-toe. The protagonist ran with this, and ended up developing an artificial intelligence.

Anyway, the idea of teaching matchboxes to play tic-tac-toe was in an article in Scientific American.

article describing how it's done [davincigames.it]

P1, nostalga, and a hopefully altruistic idea (1)

angry.compiler (1344941) | more than 5 years ago | (#26190203)

Wow. That has to be the first reference to that book I've ever seen. My father (an electrical engineering professor) bought it for me, especially relevant considering my chosen profession and real name ;-) Anyway, I've been thinking recently about writing a platform for my kids to tinker with. We have a Wii, and I've got the homebrew dev kit, along with the nous to make it work (I develop software for a living). What I want to do is put something together where people can author stuff, easily, in (possibly restricted variants of) Ruby, C, Logo, and probably a Pascal flavour. It's an educational thing. I'd see the languages being offered in the system as a 'grade' - you do all the Logo problems to unlock the next language. I leave the ordering as an exercise to the reader ;-) And the actual design as a surprise of mine! There aren't any BBC's, C64's or Speccy's anymore - what are the kids going to do? Turn into script k1dd1es, sadly at a guess. Or talented malware authors. It's not the like the demo scene gets much creds anymore (IMHO - please don't take this as flamebait).

Pffft. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26183851)

I'm not impressed. Once someone builds a programmable computer in LBP, I'll give it another look.

But when someone builds a programmable computer, AND successfully boots Linux on it, then I'll be impressed.

Thats nothing... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26184263)

People have been building basic computers in Dwarf Fortress for a while now. It is much harder in df because your computers need to take up half a mile of countryside in the world and it has to be built from the ground up by dozens of dwarves who also need to be kept fed and happy and protected from raiding goblins while they build. Then of course you need a supercomputer to run the game with all the circuits running.

http://dwarf.lendemaindeveille.com/index.php/Mechanical_logic

Kudos to the author (1)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 5 years ago | (#26184305)

When I was a kid, I started designing a Tic Tac Toe game using only mechanical relays. I abandoned the effort when I realized the thousands of relays required to make it play well would be prohibitively expensive. While writing a good Tic Tac Toe in LISP is relatively easy, doing it using discrete components is a major time sink.

I'd be really impressed... (1)

DeadPixels (1391907) | more than 5 years ago | (#26185107)

If the level knew not to play, and instead offered a chess match.

AI or just a computer (1)

floodo1 (246910) | more than 5 years ago | (#26185581)

Is this really AI? Or is it more just a mechanical computer built inside of an electronic computer?

I was under the impression that AI involved being intelligent, and not simply computing moves in Tic-Tac-Toe (or chess, etc).

Re:AI or just a computer (1)

nawcom (941663) | more than 5 years ago | (#26187639)

Is this really AI? Or is it more just a mechanical computer built inside of an electronic computer? I was under the impression that AI involved being intelligent, and not simply computing moves in Tic-Tac-Toe (or chess, etc).

It computes the correct moves to choose from just like how your brain does that same thing when you play the game. Do you compute your moves or are you simply "intelligent" enough to do so? Intelligence isn't a physical object. This mechanical contraption has intelligence at playing tic-tac-toe, and as a nonliving contraption, its intelligence is simply artificial.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_intelligence#Deduction.2C_reasoning.2C_problem_solving [wikipedia.org]
Even though tic-tac-toe is a simple game, it requires a ton of looking at the situation and using reason to make decisions. Even humans themselves lose at the game of tic-tac-toe, so this is why a mechanical logic device is quite impressive to say the least.

Re:AI or just a computer (1)

RazorSharp (1418697) | more than 5 years ago | (#26196369)

It's my understanding that no "AI" is intelligent.

Level-creation level (1)

HTH NE1 (675604) | more than 5 years ago | (#26188151)

You know, if you could create a level which allows you to create a level inside it (in a way that lets users send a recorded data stream) you could get around the level banning.

Re: (1)

clint999 (1277046) | more than 4 years ago | (#26192155)

The topic title is key here. A mechanial device was built. Starcraft was nothing more than editing triggers and hit points to create scenerios.

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