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Valve Announces Dota 2

Soulskill posted more than 4 years ago | from the new-and-improved-ways-for-people-to-call-you-terrible dept.

Games 128

RulerOf writes "Just over a year after hiring IceFrog, the lead developer of the wildly popular DotA Allstars mod for Warcraft III, and the speculation surrounding Valve's recent trademark filing for the 'DotA' name, Valve has officially announced Dota 2. Gameplay of Dota 2 is being ported 'exactly' from the current DotA Allstars and includes every hero, but vast improvements are being made to the game including VoIP, a coaching system, in-game rewards, and AI that takes over for disconnected players. Lastly, it all runs on top of the Source engine. (GameInformer's website appears to be struggling right now though, as they had an exclusive on this story.)"

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i wonder (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33891654)

I wonder if Valve will make this another freebie a la Alien Swarm.

Re:i wonder (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33891676)

They may have to, much of the content in dota has been built up over the years through mutliple developers of dota (icefrog wasn't the first), through community submissions and such. And even then some characters are taken from other copyrighted works, Lina for example is from a Japanese anime slayers.

Icefrog (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33891680)

http://icefrogtruth.blogspot.com/2010/10/truth.html

Seems valve may have known a little more than they let on when they hired Mr frog.

Re:Icefrog (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33891844)

Like it would made a difference. Valve wants to cash in on a popular mod, they would probably hired Mengele to do it if the end product was worth its salt.

Re:Icefrog (4, Informative)

The MAZZTer (911996) | more than 4 years ago | (#33891982)

Valve's official statement on that is that it is fake.

Re:Icefrog (1)

kiddygrinder (605598) | more than 4 years ago | (#33892022)

Amusing little story, but no actual proof of no actual wrongdoing as far as i can tell... even the things the blog suggests he's guilty of are barely worth mentioning... he went from one company to another? he might not have legitimate rights to the dota name (like anyone does anyway)?

Re:Icefrog (1)

Ailure (853833) | more than 4 years ago | (#33892082)

http://twitter.com/georgeb3dr/status/27283945396 [twitter.com]

And indeed. The best way for the blog to prove itself would be to post something that would only be known in Valve internally. Now the blog could have made by someone who had a dispute with Icefrog in the past, but I doubt it's by someone in Valve.

Re:Icefrog (3, Insightful)

Rysc (136391) | more than 4 years ago | (#33892150)

True or not, I don't care. Icefrog could be an asshole for all I care as long as the result is that DoTA 2 copies DoTA and does not try to change things. DoTA works, changing it damages it (see LoL and to a lesser extent HoN). Sometimes we all dislike icefrog but if he's developing and defending DoTA then no other wrongs he does matter, IMO.

Re:Icefrog (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 4 years ago | (#33895070)

But if DotA2 is identical to DotA, why would you need DotA2?

Re:Icefrog (1)

Monkeedude1212 (1560403) | more than 4 years ago | (#33896464)

Sometimes we all dislike icefrog but if he's developing and defending DoTA then no other wrongs he does matter, IMO.

So basically what you're saying is that the end justifies the means?

How'd that get insightful? That's like saying "I'd like to make more money, the fact that I'm stealing bank account info doesn't matter."

No - if Icefrog isn't going to play nicely, he shouldn't be allowed to play. Video games can be as collaberative or co-operative or competitive as the developers wish to be with each other. We don't need these kind of rogues running around screwing things up for everyone.

Re:Icefrog (2, Insightful)

PhrostyMcByte (589271) | more than 4 years ago | (#33892748)

Managers and developers at game companies tend to live in a complete disconnect from their community, and sometimes they aren't even big gamers themselves. This leads to some really stupid decisions in gameplay and interface design that most gamers would scream at them for implementing.

Assuming the blog is truthful, I can only hope that he's being a controlling asshole to prevent these kinds of people from corrupting the gameplay people loved.

Re:While playing the game aside to earn money (0, Offtopic)

luzhikui (1908888) | more than 4 years ago | (#33893492)

Dear friends, help you recommend one side, while playing the game of money, More see: http://lzkooo.gamertest.hop.clickbank.net/ [clickbank.net]

Re:Icefrog (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33894174)

What is the point of that post? It can be summarized as:

1) I don't like icefrog he are meanie
2) icefrog had a previous job OMGZ! ....ok? so? "stolen trade secrets", really? That shit never holds up in court, especially not for an already-infinitely-copied game formula. If someone had the copyright to specific names or characters, that would be the only issue. And then Valve would just rename or change the look of those characters.

It sounds like the author thinks there is some huge scandal in there, but he doesn't manage to say whatever it is.

Acronym courtesy missing... (5, Insightful)

cbope (130292) | more than 4 years ago | (#33891698)

What the hell is a DotA?

Please, if you are going to use an acronym in a news post, especially one that may be a mod many are not familiar with, follow common courtesy and spell it out the first time it is used.

I had to click on the link and visit a page with information about a mod for a game I haven't played in YEARS.

Re:Acronym courtesy missing... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33891718)

What the hell is a DotA?

Please, if you are going to use an acronym in a news post, especially one that may be a mod many are not familiar with, follow common courtesy and spell it out the first time it is used.

I had to click on the link and visit a page with information about a mod for a game I haven't played in YEARS.

Are you implying that the "editors" of Slashdot are still failing Basic Editorial Practices 101? Say it ain't so!

Re:Acronym courtesy missing... (4, Informative)

TyIzaeL (1203354) | more than 4 years ago | (#33891720)

What the hell is a DotA?

It stands for Defense of the Ancients. Basically the game consists of two teams of player-controlled heroes defending their own team's base while attacking the other's.

Re:Acronym courtesy missing... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33891726)

Defense of the Ancients if I'm not mistaken. Quite frankly though, the full name is used about as often as people use the full name for a laser.

Re:Acronym courtesy missing... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33891908)

That's L.A.S.E.R. you insensitive clod!

Re:Acronym courtesy missing... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33892490)

You don't use stops when the acronym is pronounced like a word.

LASER, NASA, NATO
yet
U.S.A., U.S.S.R. or F.B.I.

Re:Acronym courtesy missing... (2, Funny)

darthdavid (835069) | more than 4 years ago | (#33896976)

No wonder people always look at me funny when I talk about the cold war between u-saw and usser...

Re:Acronym courtesy missing... (1)

necro81 (917438) | more than 4 years ago | (#33892102)

But whereas laser is in common speech, used by just about everybody (whether or not they know it's an acronym, whether or not they know what a laser is (and isn't)), DotA is a name only known to those people who sink hours of their time into computer games, which is a minority of the population. Even here on Slashdot, there are plenty who eschew the black hole of computer gaming, hoping to put their time to more productive uses.

Re:Acronym courtesy missing... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33892348)

More productive use like being a little bitch about an acronym he should already know if he cares about gaming at least a little, and could've google'd in half a second.

Re:Acronym courtesy missing... (-1)

r6_jason (893331) | more than 4 years ago | (#33891728)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_the_Ancients [wikipedia.org] is the 1st thing that comes up when you google DotA. See, that's what adults do, when they don't know what something is they look it up, not expect to be spoon fed.

Re:Acronym courtesy missing... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33891760)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_the_Ancients [wikipedia.org] is the 1st thing that comes up when you google DotA. See, that's what adults do, when they don't know what something is they look it up, not expect to be spoon fed.

Right, it has nothing to do with the fact that the "editors" on /. couldn't e bothered with linking or explaining what "DotA" refers too. See, that's what editors (are supposed to) do.

Re:Acronym courtesy missing... (1)

JTsyo (1338447) | more than 4 years ago | (#33892388)

In the summary they say what it is: DotA Allstars mod for Warcraft III.
As long as you know it's a mod for war3 does it matter what the acronym stands for? It's known as DotA to all of the players.

Re:Acronym courtesy missing... (1)

iceperson (582205) | more than 4 years ago | (#33892538)

Are you saying you would have known what they were talking about if they had spelled out the title instead of using the acronym? In the case of DotA the acronym is what most people know it by. If you don't know what DotA means then you won't know what Defense of the Ancients means either.

Re:Acronym courtesy missing... (4, Insightful)

mythandros (973986) | more than 4 years ago | (#33894086)

Let's ignore the fact that spelling out acronyms upon first use is one of the most basic elements of good article writing. If I Google for DotA, I don't know that the first hit resolves to the intended acronym unless I already know what DotA stands for in which case I wouldn't have needed to Google it in the first place.

Re:Acronym courtesy missing... (1)

zerocommazero (837043) | more than 4 years ago | (#33894296)

I concur. DotA is the only name i knew for the game at first and is usually reffered to instead of "Defense of the Ancients". Just like American Telephone & Telegraph is more memorable/recognizable as AT&T.

Re:Acronym courtesy missing... (0, Redundant)

ShakaUVM (157947) | more than 4 years ago | (#33891774)

>>What the hell is a DotA?

Oblig Basshunter explanation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OzWIFX8M-Y [youtube.com]

Your game may or may not come with a rave and/or hot Swedish women. (Make sure you pick up the Collector's Edition.)

In all honesty though - with the number of DotA clones that have come out in the last year (Demigod, DotA for SC2, etc.) do we really need more? The gameplay isn't really that exciting.

Re:Acronym courtesy missing... (2, Informative)

Barny (103770) | more than 4 years ago | (#33891864)

This video contains content from WMG, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds.

Re:Acronym courtesy missing... (1)

Rysc (136391) | more than 4 years ago | (#33892516)

Try here instead [vimeo.com] . Also look for songs by Devil's Urethra for more DotA sing along fun.

Re:Acronym courtesy missing... (-1, Flamebait)

dAzED1 (33635) | more than 4 years ago | (#33891776)

for those that would be interested in the news, they know what it means. For everyone else, a few seconds with your favourite search engine (less time than your post took, by far) would have resulted in the answer being the first few pages of hits.

Re:Acronym courtesy missing... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33891796)

I shouldn't have to look elsewhere for an explanation of a report that's in front of me

Re:Acronym courtesy missing... (-1, Flamebait)

dAzED1 (33635) | more than 4 years ago | (#33891852)

there's something funny about life you'll learn some day - not everything is meant for you, nor will you understand everything.

Re:Acronym courtesy missing... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33891814)

The matter of fact is, no one is calling it "Defence of the Ancients", it is always called DotA. If you happen not to know what DotA is, you won't know what "Defence of the Ancients" is either.

Re:Acronym courtesy missing... (1)

Kalroth (696782) | more than 4 years ago | (#33891914)

Please, if you encounter new acronyms or new words on the internet, follow common sense and try searching for them. Google is especially helpful in this regard.

Odds are that if you don't know what "DotA" means, then you wont know what "Defense of the Ancients" means anyways.

Re:Acronym courtesy missing... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33892186)

Do you lack the common sense to read a post entirely before replying?

Re:Acronym courtesy missing... (1)

L4t3r4lu5 (1216702) | more than 4 years ago | (#33891946)

I'm surprised you got that far.

Valve announces Dota 2

"Just over a year after hiring IceFrog, the lead developer of the wildly popular DotA Allstars mod for Warcraft III, and the speculation surrounding Valve's recent trademark filing for the 'DotA' name, Valve has officially announced Dota 2. Gameplay of Dota 2 is being ported 'exactly' from the current DotA Allstars and includes every hero, but vast improvements are being made to the game including VoIP, a coaching system, in-game rewards, and AI that takes over for disconnected players. Lastly, it all runs on top of the Source engine. (GameInformer's website appears to be struggling right now though, as they had an exclusive on this story.)"

Soulskill, God only knows how you became an editor, but you certainly shouldn't be one much longer.

Jesus, between kdawson, samzenpus, and Soulskill there doesn't seem to be anyone who knows what the they're meant to be doing as editors anymore. kdawson takes hyperbole and states it as solid fact, samzenpus seems to have had his account hijacked by kdaweson, and Soulskill just doesn't seem to bother actually reading anything he submits.

Re:Acronym courtesy missing... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33892068)

Don't worry, we all love the trolls who only come to Slashdot to rip on the editors. If you don't like the job they are doing, here's a hint: Stop coming back.

Re:Acronym courtesy missing... (0, Offtopic)

L4t3r4lu5 (1216702) | more than 4 years ago | (#33892572)

Who says I come here for the articles?

I don't even read the stubs anymore. I only read this one because I didn't know what "Dota" was. I come here because Ars doesn't have the breadth of articles I'm interested in, and El Reg is essentially the Daily Mail of IT news. The comments here are often informative or insightful.

In short, I only comment on the editors when I'm forced to read the dross they pump out. It's not often, but it seems every time I read it I'm disappointed.

Re:Acronym courtesy missing... (3, Informative)

Ailure (853833) | more than 4 years ago | (#33892090)

As much using acronyms in situations like this annoys me, the acronym is more known than the full name.

Or you insist calling it "Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation"? ;)

Re:Acronym courtesy missing... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33892130)

Dota may be an acronym, but it is MUCH more widely used then the "actual" name. For most people who know the game, it's name is Dota and Defence of the acients is just an extended version of the name. Just like Gnu's not unix to anyone who knows it is called Gnu's which most would consider the "propper" name.

I'll tell you what DotA is... (4, Informative)

RulerOf (975607) | more than 4 years ago | (#33892344)

What the hell is a DotA?

Please, if you are going to use an acronym in a news post, especially one that may be a mod many are not familiar with, follow common courtesy and spell it out the first time it is used.

While you raise a good question (plenty of people don't know what DotA is, of course!), concerns like this are the reason that I included a link to the Wikipedia article upon the first mention of DotA in the submission, as well as some context around said link for those too lazy to click through.

DotA Allstars (DotA is short for Defense of the Ancients) is the world's most popular, most well balanced, and most refined incarnation of a very popular genre of RTS custom maps that began with a Starcraft map called Aeon of Strife that can collectively be referred to as the "AoS genre." However, though AoS was quite popular in its day (and I remember seeing the games on Battle.net, but never played them!), it was plagued with balance issues, particularly in the first Warcraft III incarnations by the same name; those maps were basically won by padding your hero's agility stat and adding a lifestealing attack.... they were kinda stupid, but very fun nonetheless.

Where AoS variants such as DotA differ from traditional RTS games is that instead of building and commanding a base and an army and its leaders (or heroes) and assaulting the opposite team to destroy its base, players instead control only the hero characters and the rest of the army that fights alongside you is completely controlled by the computer. You and your teammates then fight in this battle, killing enemy units and teaming up to gank (i.e. surprise and kill by abusing superior numbers, powerups, skills, whatever) enemy heroes for gold and experience, buying items and equipment to enhance your hero's stats, buff your team, or counter your opponents. The back and forth struggle is extremely teamwork oriented and incredibly fun, and playing the game with people who are all of a high skill level is quite possibly one of the most rewarding experiences I've ever had in gaming, even when I've lost!

I could go on and on about the awesomeness that the game is, but if you like games that require teamwork and skill (and don't involve any of the pervasive bullshit that has saturated FPS games since Counter-Strike became popular... "You aim at the chest and pull down on the mouse when you start shooting and get a HEADSHOT errrytime! CROUCH, CROUCH!") that are constantly improving, then you ought to give it a try. Bringing true DotA out of the Warcraft III engine and into modern times has been a dream of mine for a very long time, and though a game like Heroes of Newerth is a faithful clone, it's still not perfect from a gameplay perspective. It behaves considerably differently and the action is considerably faster, which I don't consider a good thing, though it is a great game itself.

If you found any of that interesting, I do recommend giving it a try. You'll get wtfpwned for a while, but once you get your first triple kill, you'll never look back.

Re:I'll tell you what DotA is... (2, Interesting)

Rysc (136391) | more than 4 years ago | (#33892632)

If anyone is seriously planning to start playing DotA based on this here are a few tips:
  - Go to getdota.com and download the latest map and the latest AI map - downloaders get kicked from most games
  - Learn the dota game modes. At the beginning only enter games marked APEM, All Pick, Easy Mode until you feel comfortable with most heroes and items.
  - Go to playdota.com's forums and read a guide on a hero before you pick it the first time. Also read the general guides on jungling, denying and so forth when you get a chance.
  - Experiment against the AI with AI allies a few times. Do not try to 1v1 AI, you don't get the full experience and you probably wont succeed.
  - You *will* get called a noob and cursed at and told never to play again (this happens from time to time even if you're experienced and doing everything right). DotA players are mostly abusive assholes; just ignore it.

Have fun! I look forward to ganking you soon.

Re:Acronym courtesy missing... (2, Funny)

Himring (646324) | more than 4 years ago | (#33892414)

This will best explain dota:

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u292/Mx_Paladin/Pictures/WWII.gif [photobucket.com]

Re:Acronym courtesy missing... (1)

tibman (623933) | more than 4 years ago | (#33896614)

That was the best, thanks!

Re:Acronym courtesy missing... (1)

Stenchwarrior (1335051) | more than 4 years ago | (#33895756)

I had no idea what it was either, but I assume that if you don't know, then you probably don't care anyways.

First post!! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33891708)

Suck my dirty fat cock.

new song? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33891732)

Will there be a new basshunter song? :D

better title (5, Interesting)

jakobX (132504) | more than 4 years ago | (#33891804)

Wouldn't a better title be: Valve doesn't announce episode three after years of delays.

Re:better title (3, Insightful)

Narishma (822073) | more than 4 years ago | (#33892066)

How can it be delayed when they've never announced a release date?

Re:better title (2, Insightful)

JohnnyBGod (1088549) | more than 4 years ago | (#33892322)

Given that they went episodic in order to have more frequent updates to the series, I'd say it's way past time.

Re:better title (2, Funny)

adam.dorsey (957024) | more than 4 years ago | (#33892744)

Here's something I realized yesterday: Duke Nukem Forever is coming out before HL2: Episode 3.

Just think about that one for a little while.

Re:better title (1)

morari (1080535) | more than 4 years ago | (#33895902)

I'll believe it when I see it!

Re:better title (1)

Tik0 (1088873) | more than 4 years ago | (#33893962)

Rumor is (and it is just rumor) that episode 3 has been renamed Half Life 3 and will be longer than half life 2 and the two episodes. In this scenario I think the time taken is justified.

Re:better title (1)

slyrat (1143997) | more than 4 years ago | (#33894670)

Rumor is (and it is just rumor) that episode 3 has been renamed Half Life 3 and will be longer than half life 2 and the two episodes. In this scenario I think the time taken is justified.

That makes a lot of sense. I have a feeling it has to do with the portal gun, which seems as though it will be used in HL3. Also, if that is the case I'm betting it will get more attention once Portal 2 comes out.

Re:better title (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33897980)

Do people really care about episode three? I played episode two because I got it "free" with the orange box, but sure didn't play it twice through.

I can't seem to muster any interest in single player FPS games these days unless there's a significant new gimmick to drive it.

HL2 was amazing because of the physics engine. But that was it. I don't need 3 expansions of "look, moar physics!"

But maybe I'm just old and jaded...

What players want? I think not. (5, Insightful)

ifrag (984323) | more than 4 years ago | (#33891826)

DotA is dying, and it's dying because there are already next generation replacements for it. A few years ago, the entire custom game list on Warcraft III would have been almost full of DotA and maybe a couple other games hosted here and there. These days it can take several minutes just to get a full game setup.

For those who actually enjoyed the way DotA played and the associated content there is already a complete replacement with Heroes of Newerth. Which pretty much is what Valve is talking about making here. And for those who were actually looking for something different than a straight DotA clone, League of Legends actually makes an effort to change the game up in meaningful ways. Most significantly by throwing out the Warcraft III stat system.

So despite Valve's track record, I'm not optimistic in their approach on this. I really doubt people want DotA yet again with a few enhancements. I think a 3rd generation sequel would have a lot more chance than a 1st generation remake. Unless they make more than trivial improvements in infrastructure this is not going to draw the players who are already in this market. Maybe they stand a chance for getting some new players, those not already involved in the MOBA (Multiplayer Online Battle Arena) games. It would have been nice to see Valve actually do some research before trying to jump blindly into this.

Re:What players want? I think not. (2, Informative)

s7uar7 (746699) | more than 4 years ago | (#33891850)

I've never heard of Dota or played Warhammer III; I do, however, have Steam installed and own all of Valve's games. It's not just existing Dota players who this will be aimed at, it's people like me.

Re:What players want? I think not. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33893074)

WarCraft III, not Warhammer III.

Re:What players want? I think not. (2, Funny)

Kenoli (934612) | more than 4 years ago | (#33894702)

I've never... played Warhammer III

I think they skipped 3 and went straight to 40000.

Re:What players want? I think not. (1)

Fearan (600696) | more than 4 years ago | (#33891912)

I completely agree, and would like to add that if people just want DotA with VoIP, better graphics, etc... they can just play it on StarCraft 2 custom maps.

Re:What players want? I think not. (2, Informative)

Kaboom13 (235759) | more than 4 years ago | (#33891918)

The DotA community on Battlenet was killed by Blizzard, when they began banning people with no possibility for appeal for using the 3rd party tools necessary to making a decent game on battle.net possible. Tools like visual custom kick and banlist became bannable offenses, but they were pretty much necessary to have a game on battlenet that wasn't full of laggers, leavers, and griefers. The more serious players moved to 3rd party services/leagues, and the casual players quit or moved to League of Legends or Heroes of Newerth. I haven't played Heroes of Newerth since beta, but to call it a drop in replacement for Dota was pretty far fetched, Dota relies on extremely fine tuned RTS and pathing mechanics, that wc3 provides, and that simply didn't exist in HoN when I played.

Re:What players want? I think not. (1)

Rysc (136391) | more than 4 years ago | (#33892838)

This is correct. HoN is the viable DotA alternative today, but still not as good in many ways. Nothing beats the experience of straight DotA, if you can get a fucking game going. These days bots take care of most of the administrative hassle.

Re:What players want? I think not. (1)

kj_kabaje (1241696) | more than 4 years ago | (#33891960)

Why take a risk on a new market when you have an established one? Gaming companies are just as risk-averse as movie-makers are. If they think they have a formula that works, they will use it until it fails.

Re:What players want? I think not. (1)

locallyunscene (1000523) | more than 4 years ago | (#33892354)

I'm worried this will end up being like Counter-Strike: Source.

Re:What players want? I think not. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33892936)

Fun, you mean?

Re:What players want? I think not. (1)

morari (1080535) | more than 4 years ago | (#33895960)

No, you misheard. He said "Counter-Strike"... I'm not sure how you could have gotten "fun" from that.

Re:What players want? I think not. (1)

tibman (623933) | more than 4 years ago | (#33896738)

I looked at the Steam Stats the other day and the #1 game played was CS:S.. i was amazed! Guess what #2 was? plain old CS. Gah! #3 was Modern Warfare 2.

Re:What players want? I think not. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33892442)

I think this is less about building a larger and more refined experience, and more about introducing the game to a broader audience. I play a ~lot~ of games, and I think I heard about DOtA once in passing, and paid it no mind, since it was a mod on an game I hadn't played in years.

So you're right... It might not really be what current DOtA players really want. However, as a business move, and a strategic move for championing the genre, it's probably a good move to make.

Re:What players want? I think not. (1)

Himring (646324) | more than 4 years ago | (#33892788)

I disagree to about 90% of this. Yes, DoTA has less following than it did, say, 3 years ago, but it is still very solid. It is my crack -- literally, I need therapy. I've been playing DoTA Allstars since 2004 (and there is an ancient, older WC3 DoTA that's not Allstars, but the one that's madly popular is Allstars -- technically, if you just say "DoTA" you mean the much older version that doesn't focus on heroes and that's less popular, but now, "DoTA" has come to mean "DoTA Allstars" and the "Allstars" part is left off; "Allstars" basically means, "This is Defense of The Ancient with a focus on powerful Heroes" whereas, the older version did not put focus on heroes, and focused more on the marching creeps -- both have creeps.... of course, all of this is played within the WC3 engine, and DoTA non-Allstars was based on RoC, whereas, Allstars came with the advent of TFT.... /digress). It is/was the germination of a new gaming genre, and that says a lot. Games that come along which found new genres are rare, and DoTA is one. The new genre (MOBA), I first heard this year. It is now fielded by LoL, et al., but it's first incarnation was DoTA.

The versions are coming out slower for sure, but 6.69 just came out, and I've had no problem finding games. I play on East Coast. Anyhow, DoTA has been strong with good population for over five years now by my personal account, and I don't see it going away. Even with the crappy leavers ruining games, even with the drawbacks of the old WC3 engine ... the game has staying power that only a few games in history aspire to. So, no, it isn't dying by any stretch, and the next generation games have made a dent, but not a big one. Yes, there were more games a few years ago, but you can easily find a DoTA game at any time of day 24x7, and at times, there are many listed. Players have done tons to improve the WC3 DoTA playing experience (the game managing bots, vote kicks, etc.). If they will get the drop/leaver reconnects fixed (as I heard they have been working on), then I see WC3 DoTA living on much longer.

I've played LoL. It didn't stick. The archetypal heroes of the genre will forever be WC3 DoTA characters, and no matter what happens 2, 3, 5 years from now in this genre, it'll find it's roots in the legendary engine of WC3, and in the grass-roots, players driven mod of DoTA Allstars. (And unlike these replacements, after you purchase WC3, it's friggin totally free).

The WC3 game engine is among the elite, and ranks up there with Quake as something that changed gaming history, and is still in use. It's like a friggin Sherman ww2 tank ... still used in the 1960 and 70s.... LoL was/is too complicated to me, and I get tired of every single game now associating leveling with the mechanics of another genre (do I really need to level my account that logs me in to play a single game? Yes, in LoL you do ... Maybe I should implement levels to user accounts at work -- "congratulations! this is your 50th login. You are now level 4!).

What other game and game engine made so long ago has a solid following, and allows you to join a 10 man-game at any time of day for over 5 or 6 years? WC3 DoTA is rare.... (ok, ok, Everquest deadheads)....

I really doubt people want DotA yet again

Whether DoTA continues on the WC3 engine or takes off with Valve ... the moniker will always be around. I question just how much DoTA you have played/play. As for me, I'm hitting a game when I finish this post. Please don't tell me group counselor....

Re:What players want? I think not. (1)

ifrag (984323) | more than 4 years ago | (#33893078)

I question just how much DoTA you have played/play.

Played DotA? A lot in my opinion. Over 1000 games hosted by me easily. Usually don't join other peoples games since the latency benefit is nice to have, even with custom host utilities. I have my own customized build of the ghost hosting program, with a couple extra features (based on the already customized build someone else provides). Not even sure my bot will work with b.net anymore though.

And I'll admit, I don't play any more, at all. Last game would have been at least a few months ago. I've moved on to the new MOBA's clearly from the tone in my post. The last time I tried to play DotA was something like 3:30 am so maybe I'm wrong about how strong the community actually is.

Re:What players want? I think not. (1)

Himring (646324) | more than 4 years ago | (#33894388)

LoL, et al., indeed took some of the pop, but yes, games are still there and easy to find....

Re:What players want? I think not. (1)

VGPowerlord (621254) | more than 4 years ago | (#33893244)

What other game and game engine made so long ago has a solid following, and allows you to join a 10 man-game at any time of day for over 5 or 6 years? WC3 DoTA is rare.... (ok, ok, Everquest deadheads)....

The GoldSrc and Source engines, for one. Counter-Strike (GoldSrc engine, from 12 years ago) still has something like 40,000-60,000 concurrent players at any given time, according to Valve's Steam stats. Its remake, Counter-Strike: Source (Source engine, from 6 years ago updated to use the 2009 version of the engine) has roughly the same number of concurrent players.

Guess what! The DOTA remake is going to use the same game engine the latter is based on, albeit a newer version of it (likely similar to the one Alien Swarm used).

There's also League of Legends (1)

roguegramma (982660) | more than 4 years ago | (#33896834)

There's also League of Legends, which is mostly DotA.

"vast" improvements? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33891838)

Dota 2 is being ported 'exactly' from the current DotA Allstars [...] but vast improvements are being made to the game including VoIP, a coaching system, in-game rewards, and AI that takes over for disconnected players.

Sounds more like a quick cash-in than anything else. This is just as bad as the rebranding of EA's annual sports games. But it's valve. They get a free pass on this kind of bullshit for whatever reason.

Who cares. Where's Half-Life 2 Episode 3? (0, Offtopic)

Zarhan (415465) | more than 4 years ago | (#33891856)

n/t.

Re:Who cares. Where's Half-Life 2 Episode 3? (1)

TheVelvetFlamebait (986083) | more than 4 years ago | (#33891900)

The sentences in your title are out of order.
 
/troll

Re:Who cares. Where's Half-Life 2 Episode 3? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33894902)

No, it's a valid question. The only thing I give a crap about is HL2:E3. Valve should work on THAT FIRST.

Re:Who cares. Where's Half-Life 2 Episode 3? (1)

tibman (623933) | more than 4 years ago | (#33897934)

The only thing i can say about valve is you never know WTF they are doing but it will be great. When they first started working on TF2, it was realistic looking and nothing like what we have today. Before TF2 was released they came out with all kinds of great things. EP3 will be the same thing.. when it comes out, you'll be surprised and really enjoy it.

L4D2 is one of my favorite games, atm. When l4d2 came out a year after l4d1, i was thinking.. WTF valve, you barely finished the first l4d. But l4d2 really improved upon the ideas l4d1 created. I would still like to see the AI director more involved in the gameplay.. including versus mode. Even randomizing the maps a bit more would be great. Right now the big feature is tier2 weapon placement and goodies like pipebombs. You never know what exactly will be laying where.. which keeps the multiplayer games from turning into memorized mechanical unfun affairs.

This has me worried? (2, Insightful)

Rysc (136391) | more than 4 years ago | (#33891858)

Skill based matching? Shades of SC2. Everything you do is tied back to your one true identity? Uh oh. I've been playing dota for something like six or seven years now. I *like* the fact that anyone can host a game (especially now that bots have made this process hassle-free) and I *like* the fact that anyone can roll up a new bnet account in a few seconds. I've never been banned for anything, so it's not ban avoidance or dodging a bad reputation that I'm after. I like not always being the same person in every game. I like getting in to games with people far more skilled than I am! Yes, I lose badly, but I always learn something about play techniques that goes on to improve my game. How much can you learn if you can always compete with those you play against? All that teaches you is that you don't have to change anything and you'll do fine.

I love getting in to games with the skilled players, the ones who can read your mind and are always up for a gank. Will I be relegated to the equivalent of pub mashups because of that one game where I fed like thanksgiving?

I've played LoL and HoN so I know what can happen when you try to clone DoTA. Little things being different can make a large difference in gameplay: towers in HoN don't act quite right, nor is the right click interaction the same. When cloning the cloners are never content to just copy a good thing, they always *ALWAYS* try to 'fix' things they think are broken... usually with unintentionally awful side effects. Part of what I, and other dota players, like about dota is going to be lost if it becomes a hosted by a single central authority, requires a monthly fee to play, subjects you to "reputation" requirements before you can enter good games, or any one of a dozen other things that seem like good ideas from the outside.

I like the idea of an updated dota client (war3 is a bit cumbersome!) but I worry about any big change. One nice thing about icefrog is that he doesn't change a lot of things at once, even when there's a big, sweeping change it's incremental. Since this is valve-based I'm presuming that means steam, and I hate steam in general. Will there be LAN play? Will we be able to host our own servers?

How will things like OMG mode be supported? This is by far the most popular sub-mode of DoTA at the moment and with the keys to the kingdom locked up in a non-user-editable valve proprietary game I don't think OMG would ever have been developed. I certainly hope valve plans to support this in dota2, along with the built in but less common modes (id, sc, hell even wtf).

tl;dr I'm worried by this, but I'd like to be happy about it. I just hope it's as good in every way as the existing dota.

Re:This has me worried? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33891890)

Non-user-editable valve game? Say what?

Re:This has me worried? (1)

kiddygrinder (605598) | more than 4 years ago | (#33892058)

you must be the only person who doesn't want skill based matching, i only ever played with my friends because every time i joined a random game i got cursed out and told to leave for feeding too much.

Re:This has me worried? (1)

Rysc (136391) | more than 4 years ago | (#33892206)

So stop feeding. I learned this, you can too.

Skill based matching sounds good, sure, and it has its uses, but it's also hidden poison. Having an option for it is okay, requiring it is bad mojo.

Re:This has me worried? (1)

agrif (960591) | more than 4 years ago | (#33892272)

How will things like OMG mode be supported? This is by far the most popular sub-mode of DoTA at the moment and with the keys to the kingdom locked up in a non-user-editable valve proprietary game I don't think OMG would ever have been developed.

This has already been said by an AC, but I'll echo it because it needs to be heard.

Non-user-editable valve proprietary game? Really? Have you played valve's games? The Source SDK is available to anyone with a Source game, and they're all very mod-able. Valve actually encourages this, because some of their most popular products (Counter-Strike, Team Fortress) were mods for Half-Life that they bought out and hired the creators. This is sort-of what happened here with DoTA. I wouldn't worry about mod-ability.

Also, if you've played other valve games, you know they have high standards. It's likely this will be a very good game. They also have a great relationship with their community. If players want a game mode, it'll be in there.

Re:This has me worried? (1)

Rysc (136391) | more than 4 years ago | (#33892404)

No amount of history can be relied on for predicting future actions. The fact is that bob had complete access to do anything he needed and without that OMG would probably not have been created. If Valve makes DotA2 modable enough for this, great, but it's a point of concern for me no matter how good their track record is.

I've played several valve games but this does not give me a positive impression of the company. I hope that everything you say is true and I really want it to be true, but I worry. I really don't want anything to happen which alters the in-game dota experience, or the community-driven nature of enhancements, or the many interesting map hacks that have been created.

Re:This has me worried? (1)

VGPowerlord (621254) | more than 4 years ago | (#33893916)

I'll address some of your points based on Valve's past history and current behavior:

hosted by a single central authority

While Valve will require you to have DotA 2 installed to a Steam account, none of their games so far force you to use Valve servers.

In fact, Valve only runs game servers for Left 4 Dead and Left 4 Dead 2. Windows and Linux dedicated server binaries are available for all multiplayer games except Alien Swam, which forces one of the player to host the game.

requires a monthly fee to play

None of Valve's games have a monthly fee. Perhaps you're confusing them with Blizzard, who has World of Warcraft?

subjects you to "reputation" requirements before you can enter good games

The closest you get here is the L4D/L4D2 matchmaker. I'm not sure how it works, since I've never used it... all the L4D/L4D2 games I've played have been against friends or others in the Steam communities I'm in. (Have I mentioned I suck at L4D/L4D2?)

Since this is valve-based I'm presuming that means steam, and I hate steam in general.

Why?

Will there be LAN play? Will we be able to host our own servers?

I really hope this isn't the reason you hate Steam. Every multi-player Valve game to date has had LAN play. All their multi-player games (save one) have dedicated Windows/Linux server binaries. Alien Swarm is the exception; it forces one of the players to host.

The Steam servers have a cvar (console variable) that can be set in server.cfg to host lan games: sv_lan 1. This causes the server to not list itself on the master server list and possibly several other changes.

The closest Valve has come to a LAN hostile game is Team Fortress 2, where if the server and clients don't have access to the Steam central servers (which host the TF2 inventory), players will be forced to use the default weapons rather than the unlockable weapons introduced since April 2008. The second closest is Alien Swarm, which also deals with unlockable weapons. For all other games, the experience is exactly the same, but without stat logging on the central Steam servers.

TF2's inventory restriction can be gotten around using server plugins, such as SourceMod with the Unlock Replacer plugin, although it may not have been updated since the last major update two weeks ago.

Re:This has me worried? (1)

tibman (623933) | more than 4 years ago | (#33897004)

It's usually very easy to mod valve games. Lately their games have been via match-making type things. You can host a dedicated server but it's usually not accessable via a server browser. What happens is people setup a lobby and search for an empty server (it could be official, dedicated, or local host). There has always been lan-play too, but it's not the way you remember from older games. You don't goto Multiplayer->Lan->create game. You just create a lobby, invite your friends, and play. This type of gameplay works well for "session" style games.. not for games like TF2 that are continuous with high player counts. Continuous games demand a real server browser, imo.

Not sure if I trust the AI (1)

ultraexactzz (546422) | more than 4 years ago | (#33892070)

...If this DotA gets as stats-oriented as Heroes of Newerth, for example, then I can only imagine what'll happen when someone disconnects and the AI takes over for them - and promptly feeds, or pushes solo, or wanders off to farm neuts for the rest of the game, or whatever else it can do to screw the team. This style of game takes a lot of decision-making - targets, farm, push/no push, cc, etc. I don't think an AI can really pull it off properly.

Re:Not sure if I trust the AI (1)

ifrag (984323) | more than 4 years ago | (#33892250)

There actually are bot-maps of DotA if you look for them, they were lagging behind current by several versions last time I snagged one. For one huge problem, bots can't really coordinate with players. Beyond maybe some simple AI to determine what action should be taken based on player pinging the map somewhere. Like go-to ping on major objectives or something.

The only reason the DotA bots can actually compete is their lane micro is way above average. The sheer amount of last hit creep kills and denies is what keeps the DotA bots actually in the game. They don't have any real strategy to speak of, and pre-determined item builds which don't adapt to game situations, but their mechanics on game-play timing execution are so flawless it compensates a bit. Beyond that though, their abilities beyond the simple lane phases is the real problem.

And the real issue here is that most players are going to be leaving the game in the later phases, when they've fallen behind and don't see the game changing as a result of staying in it. The boost the computer could have taken advantage in lane phase is gone since the game has progressed into the large team fight and objective phases. The bots will most likely fall on their faces when actually needed. Unless the bots are given some calculated boost (and players will definitely take issue with doing this) which is proportional to the time in game where the drop happened then they will get steam rolled by even moderate coordination.

Which pretty much leaves one thing left for bots to do. Practice games is probably the only real application for them.

Re:Not sure if I trust the AI (1)

Rysc (136391) | more than 4 years ago | (#33892760)

First, AI maps in DotA are all unofficial (hence the lag time). Second, in addition to good micro the AI also cheats. A skilled player can last hit as well as an AI bot but if you leave the AI on hard mode (the default) they gain 150% XP. This is necessary to give them any hope of beating normal players. Even at their smartest the AI in BMP's maps can be exploited (clouds were even worse!) and their skill is very uneven. Example: If you're Lion and you mana drain one of the AI bots it will walk back and forth in range of the drain, will not attack you or attempt to break the drain. This was still true the last time I played vs. AI. A better example: If you attack the base tower the AI will come back and defend, always, even when it makes no sense. You can leave one guy doing hit-and-run on the top lane to prevent pushes mid, for example. They're also very predictable in play style and really easy to fool into making all kinds of crazy choices.

In short, no AI can beat a good DotA player in a fair fight. Most AI will feed like noobs.

Re:Not sure if I trust the AI (1)

Rysc (136391) | more than 4 years ago | (#33892336)

I had the same thought. I'd prefer the hero to simply run back to the fountain on disconnect and the game to allow a disconnected player to reconnect. Auto-reconnect is a killer feature, no doubt there. If someone simply leaves and doesn't come back then I don't see a problem with the -unlock vote and harvesting gold and items; that certainly beats an AI which cannot possibly be any good.

Won't fix the community (1)

McTickles (1812316) | more than 4 years ago | (#33892870)

DotA, HoN and LoL all suffer from very intolerant and LOLretardedLOLWTFKEKEKE communities that actually scare players away (and thus potential customers) I suspect DotA2 will fail at fixing that.

Re:Won't fix the community (1)

tibman (623933) | more than 4 years ago | (#33898114)

I would like to argue the opposite. It's likely that steam communities will allow like minded people to play together. Existing friends can also play together and minimize the feeling that your team hates you. There is a lot of "meta-gaming" that goes on in steam that just doesn't happen with traditional non-steam games.

P2P or Dedicated servers? (1)

PPalmgren (1009823) | more than 4 years ago | (#33893002)

That is a very important question. Heroes of Newerth did some really cool things that can't be matched by typical RTS P2P play. First and foremost, its impossible to maphack because the netcode doesn't send information for units in fog of war, that information residing only on the server. You'd have to hack their servers to gain that exploit. They also have a reconnect feature where, say, if your comp restarts and you log back in, you are prompted to rejoin the game. These alone make it a much better experience than DotA. The only thing DotA 2 seems to have going for it over HoN is AI and coaching system (which is admittedly needed because the game has a very steep learning curve). LoL has the in-game rewards part covered.

We'll see how tihs pans out.

For a similar game on xbox live... (1)

nateand (1487549) | more than 4 years ago | (#33893474)

Try Monday Night Combat. It's an awesome game that's a cross between a tower defense game and a 3rd person shooting game. There are classes VERY similar to Team Fortress 2, all of which are useful, and it has a great developer supporting it. It's a ton of fun.

Asshole player base (1)

Godskitchen (1017786) | more than 4 years ago | (#33895352)

The problem with DOTA and HON (I'm not sure about LOL) is that the player base is a bunch of assholes.

Re:Asshole player base (1)

Cazakatari (1403081) | more than 4 years ago | (#33895570)

That is true, they are generally intolerant of anyone who doesn't know what they're doing, and even sometimes when they do.

What's next (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33896500)

So now we can expect episode 3 for next year, right?

Coaching... (1)

CaseM (746707) | more than 4 years ago | (#33897566)

No, thanks, I already get enough "in-game coaching" every time I pick up a DOTA clone...

"WTF U FUKIN NOOB!!"

"OMG NOOB"

"WTFWTFWTF?????"

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