×

Announcing: Slashdot Deals - Explore geek apps, games, gadgets and more. (what is this?)

Thank you!

We are sorry to see you leave - Beta is different and we value the time you took to try it out. Before you decide to go, please take a look at some value-adds for Beta and learn more about it. Thank you for reading Slashdot, and for making the site better!

Valve: Linux Better Than Windows 8 for Gaming

samzenpus posted about 2 years ago | from the top-of-the-heap dept.

Games 768

dartttt writes "In a presentation at Ubuntu Developer Summit currently going on in Denmark, Drew Bliss from Valve said that Linux is more viable than Windows 8 for gaming. Windows 8 ships with its own app store and it is not an open platform anymore and Linux has everything they need: good OpenGL, pulseaudio, OpenAL and input support."

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

first (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41805155)

post!

no more donuts for Gabe... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41805157)

He's just angry that Windows Marketplace is going to cut into his donut funds.

Re:no more donuts for Gabe... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41805245)

Some fatty is angry that I speak the truth! ;-)

Re:no more donuts for Gabe... (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41805449)

There could be technical reasons too - porting their games to Linux showed a massive performance increase over the Windows version. And that's without having spent the months/years tuning the Linux version that had been done on the Windows one.

http://games.slashdot.org/story/12/08/02/1738229/is-it-time-for-an-opengl-gaming-revolution

Re:no more donuts for Gabe... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41805615)

Technical donuts are still donuts

Re:no more donuts for Gabe... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41805741)

He's just angry that Windows Marketplace is going to cut into his donut funds.

Sure, but he's also saying the truth.
Microsoft will obsolete sooner or later the win32 api and then the only way to install software will be through Microsoft's app store (onle Metro apps for you suckers). Every software developer (wether closed source or open source) that values a free platform will have jumped ship by then. And those that don't jump are in for a world of hurt.

If only more companies acted on their thoughts (5, Insightful)

hinchles (976598) | about 2 years ago | (#41805159)

I've read alot about companies saying win8 is bad for gaming yet very few are actually willing to put their money where their mouth is and actually produce linux native games (or at least games that work perfectly well under wine). Couple that with the lack of installed userbase with capable hardware and the commercial aspects of linux don't really stack up. As much as I'd love to run mint full time its stuck on its vm currently or on underpowered hardware (where linux really shines as a desktop making old/low powered hardware useable!) neither of which are gaming capable.

Re:If only more companies acted on their thoughts (4, Interesting)

bhcompy (1877290) | about 2 years ago | (#41805311)

Because "better for games" doesn't mean "viable for games" or "good for games".

My TI82 is better for games than my typewriter.

Re:If only more companies acted on their thoughts (5, Insightful)

Microlith (54737) | about 2 years ago | (#41805683)

It's quite likely that Steam could make Linux (Ubuntu, at least) viable for games. There's nothing inherently "good" about Windows for games other than the monopoly that Microsoft rides on.

Re:If only more companies acted on their thoughts (5, Informative)

CAPSLOCK2000 (27149) | about 2 years ago | (#41805391)

The mere fact that Valve has a slot on the Ubuntu Developer Summit should have been a clue that they are actually working on supporting Linux. While rumours about this have existed for years we our now beyond the rumour stage. Valve does not try to hide it. In fact you can register for their beta-program right now.

Re:If only more companies acted on their thoughts (4, Insightful)

HungryHobo (1314109) | about 2 years ago | (#41805737)

They know that microsoft know how important gaming is long term.

they also know how much more leverage they have if they ever need to negotiate with microsoft if there's alternative systems.

Re:If only more companies acted on their thoughts (1)

Synerg1y (2169962) | about 2 years ago | (#41805459)

I think that games on linux are a great idea, the platform (on most distros) is not nearly as bogged down as Windows is & it's a performance tweaking haven. Much less reliance on sub-par nvidia drivers with their limited configuration options. However, considering who the average PC gamer is, it would probably be suicide for the game industry as well, most kids in middle / high school don't know how to do stuff like set up a dual boot environment, or find appropriate working drivers, much less that the user base is mostly over at windows now for gaming and isn't showing signs of moving anywhere anytime soon (including apple).

Re:If only more companies acted on their thoughts (2)

bigstrat2003 (1058574) | about 2 years ago | (#41805509)

Yeah, but those statements have only happened in the last few months (6 months or so). Given the lead time on game development, you can't reasonably expect fruit from any efforts starting then for at least another year or two.

Finally (3, Insightful)

Kral_Blbec (1201285) | about 2 years ago | (#41805163)

The only thing tying a lot of people (myself included) to Windows is gaming. With how much I hate the new ModernUI, I've been taking another look at going back to Linux as a main O/S.

Re:Finally (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41805315)

The only thing tying a lot of people (myself included) to Windows is gaming. With how much I hate the new ModernUI, I've been taking another look at going back to Linux as a main O/S.

This.

Every time I mention Linux to someone they ask whether it can run the latest games. It probably can (with WINE and various other packages), but most people just don't want to go through all the effort just to play a game. And you're on your own when you run into trouble, since major publishers just refuse to support Linux.

Re:Finally (-1)

slashmydots (2189826) | about 2 years ago | (#41805337)

What do you have against Fischer Price colors? lol. At least they realized just in time that "metro" and purple = vague gay reference and stopped that one just in time. If only they had realized that everyone uses mice and they're faster than touchscreens. Oh well, there's always Windows 9.

Two-finger gestures (1)

tepples (727027) | about 2 years ago | (#41805711)

If only they had realized that everyone uses mice and they're faster than touchscreens.

I agree with you that a mouse is superior to a capacitive multitouch screen for some applications, such as those requiring pixel precision. But how is, say, zooming or rotating faster on a mouse than on a capacitive multitouch screen that can use two-finger gestures?

Re:Finally (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41805779)

I have always thought MS had at least a metro streak, if not homosexual in naming. "File manager" became "explorer", the "Net" became "network neighborhood", "Box" became "my computer", "config" became "innie file", etc.. It's subtle in places, but feminine names and "soft" tones everywhere.

Re:Finally (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41805445)

As soon as there is a BF3 quality, multi-player shooter running on Linux, I'm gone.

Re:Finally (5, Interesting)

L4t3r4lu5 (1216702) | about 2 years ago | (#41805573)

I installed Windows 8 RC on my work PC today, purely because we'll either be upgrading to Win7 or Win8 come summer 2013, and I thought I'd best at least give it a go before dismissing it entirely. If you've not used it, try it; Metro is not bad. In fact, i'd say it's almost exactly like Win7 Start Menu, only it has more information on it.

The only reason I can see for hating Metro (besides the "walled garden" thing, which is a MAJOR turn-off) is that you're still navigating the start menu folders with your mouse. After about 5 minutes, I thought I'd try hitting the Start key and typing a program name, as you can in Win7; It worked exactly as I expected; List of apps with the same name, then other shortcuts in other areas, then files.

If your biggest issue with Windows 8 is the UI, then at least have a good go at using it. It took me around an hour to get used to it, and I've been a point-and-click Windows user since MSDOS 4. I reserve judgement about the rest of the "features".

Re:Finally (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41805627)

This, and problems with drivers for certain hardware ( ATI graphics cards ...)

Re:Finally (1)

Clsid (564627) | about 2 years ago | (#41805795)

Totally agree.

Due to the huge Linux market share? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41805167)

Tell ya what. You release your game for Linux, and I'll release mine for Windows 8. Whoever sells more gets the other guy's revenue? Feel up for that?

Re:Due to the huge Linux market share? (3, Interesting)

ichthus (72442) | about 2 years ago | (#41805329)

You make a good point, but Valve has the clout to pull this off and negate your argument.

Re:Due to the huge Linux market share? (4, Insightful)

JonJ (907502) | about 2 years ago | (#41805435)

Valve is already releasing their game. When will you be releasing yours Mr. AC? And when do you expect to surpass Valve in revenue?

Re:Due to the huge Linux market share? (5, Informative)

MrEricSir (398214) | about 2 years ago | (#41805523)

I was there for the talk. He didn't really say that "Linux is better for gaming." Given the current user base, state of drivers and various flux in the stack, nobody in their right mind would say such a thing.

What he did say is that Ubuntu is an "open platform." Not really the same thing as "better," unless you're a writer at an Ubuntu fanboy site.

Re:Due to the huge Linux market share? (3, Insightful)

AwesomeMcgee (2437070) | about 2 years ago | (#41805749)

As soon as there is a single fully working audio stack for linux that doesn't require fidgetting with configuration like crazy to get it to work, and it's compatible with *all* games, then you're a step closer to being viable.

Except the fact that getting bluetooth mouse/keyboard to work is a huge pain unless you buy one of the specifically linux supported bluetooth sets, but I pick my hardware based on quality/price, not OS support because I shouldn't have to (and don't with windows).

Yes, open is great, but until every hardware company is ensuring a simple fully functional driver for their devices on it and there is a common interface for software to all of those drivers ala directX/directSound, windows will be a better gaming platform even for linux enthusiasts. Unfortunate, as all the software stacks that do exist for linux tend to outperform windows by a fair margin, because of significantly better OS architecture.

Simply put, it's a problem of robustness and consistency. When I want to shoot zombies I don't want to have to restart my sound system or HID system and re-enter pin codes and set defaults again, nor do I want to spend weeks configuring and scripting auto-configuration setup for such a thing. So it's a waste of game developers time to try and target linux when they live a crunch-mode life as it is with huge risk of flop resulting in practically no money-back for the effort even when they're focussed on only one OS.

I'm not holding my breath (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41805179)

But gaming is the one thing still tying me to Windows.

ummmm, let me be the first to call (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41805183)

bullshit.

Untrue. Windows 8 is still an open platform... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41805189)

...but Windows 9 might well not be. Valve has seen the writing on the wall and is hedging its bets. Personally, if Windows 9 does end up being a walled garden, I can see desktop Linux or OS X (assuming it remains open) getting popular with developers awfully fast.

Re:Untrue. Windows 8 is still an open platform... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41805291)

So apple having the Mac app store is different than the Windows one? They didn't raise this hell in regards to the mac app store, but on windows suddenly it's the worst thing to happen ever? Maybe I'm missing something?

Re:Untrue. Windows 8 is still an open platform... (1)

FyRE666 (263011) | about 2 years ago | (#41805617)

Mac users are used to getting shafted. That's the biggest difference.

In other words: (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41805201)

"We're deeply upset that Microsoft is moving into our turf".

Look, I love Linux. It's fantastic at a lot of things. But its not one operating system. That's a good thing for a lot of things (No, Microsoft, I don't think my AD server should have the same interface as a tablet...), but it still makes it a pain in the ass for game developers.

This is just Valve being pissed off that they won't be able to take a cut of game sales forever.

Fear... (5, Interesting)

rwven (663186) | about 2 years ago | (#41805213)

What I fear is that Valve will dive deep into Linux, and then suddenly realize that supporting software like steam and games on Linux may be a bit more challenging than they thought it would.

The myriad hardware types out there with myriad sets of less-than-optimal drivers might present myriad problems, even if Valve does master the video-card/opengl end of things. I know I get vastly different experiences with Ubuntu depending on if I install it on one desktop versus another versus my laptop. They all have their own sets of issues, and none of them are remotely perfect.

This whole affair with valve just reminds me of some computer user adopting a new platform with vim and vigor...and then realizing it's not all it's cracked up to be a few weeks or months later. I myself did this with mac, but it took a couple years for me to come to my senses, unfortunately.

There are MANY legitimate reasons why Linux on the desktop has not taken off. I fear that Valve just hasn't encountered the right set of those reasons yet.

Re:Fear... (5, Interesting)

second_coming (2014346) | about 2 years ago | (#41805321)

SteamOS... the next logical step.

Re:Fear... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41805325)

There are MANY legitimate reasons why Linux on the desktop has not taken off. I fear that Valve just hasn't encountered the right set of those reasons yet.

The desktop is dead. By 2016, Android will outsell windows. It is so bad that Microsoft isn't bothering to release a desktop operating system any more.

Re:Fear... (1)

DarwinSurvivor (1752106) | about 2 years ago | (#41805489)

Try running any modern 3d game (not angry birds) on the most powerful phone in the world, then come back and say that with a straight face.

Re:Fear... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41805763)

My phone is actually faster then my work computer

Re:Fear... (1)

HeckRuler (1369601) | about 2 years ago | (#41805761)

The desktop is dead.

Oh? Android can mange 3 monitors? Do you really think it will even in 4 years?

By 2016, Android will outsell windows.

Phones might sell like hotcakes, but the comparison of bicycle sales to motorcycle sales is not equivalent. Both have their uses. One might be more in vogue as the healthier more economical option. But sometimes you need to GET places.

Re:Fear... (3, Interesting)

zrbyte (1666979) | about 2 years ago | (#41805389)

This may work if the real plan of Valve is to release a Linux based console having Steam. From there supporting Linux is a no brainer.

Re:Fear... (1)

Gumbercules!! (1158841) | about 2 years ago | (#41805579)

And that is probably exactly the plan (I have heard they're looking into hardware).

I suspect you've just hit the nail on the head.

Re:Fear... (2)

Microlith (54737) | about 2 years ago | (#41805411)

And this is somehow worse than Windows?

Seriously, I've seen an install on Windows 7 behave very differently between systems as well. Rock solid on one and willing to puke at the drop of a hat on another.

Re:Fear... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41805443)

As if Windows drivers are somehow more optimal? Linux is perfectly stable if done right. Have you seen Raspberry Pi? OLPC? Ouya? They could very easily design their own hardware device with drivers they know to work, include some kind of voucher for X number of games of your choice from the Valve catalog with purchase, and you'd replace the XBox with a VBox. For those who prefer to run their own systems with higher powered hardware, who already have more technical knowledge in the first place, they'll be able to optimize their own system. I use Gentoo on two laptops and a desktop, and they all perform great, they play all kinds of games (both natively and in Wine) with no trouble, the one with AMD CPU/GPU works fine, the one with Intel CPU and nVidia GPU works fine, and newest one with i7 and nVidia Optimus works fine. I think you've eaten a bit too much of the FUD and need a good laxative.

Re:Fear... (5, Insightful)

OG (15008) | about 2 years ago | (#41805493)

While there are challenges, i think that Valve's doing it at least partly right. For starters, they're initially supporting Steam on a specific distribution and release. While some people may disagree with that stance, I'd say that it's smart to focus on the most popular distro first and get that working well, as it'll provide a much more solid base for the product. Additionally, if they could recommend/support specific drivers for optimal performance, that would also reduce initial variability. I think part of the problem with launching an application on Linux (especially a game or gaming system, which tends to really utilize all of the different components of a system) is the thought that it needs to run on all Linux distros out of the box. That may be a great goal, but it's a support nightmare. It's probably better in the long-run to target a certain platform, get it working great on that platform, and then expand from there. It'll be interesting to see how this turns out for them.

Re:Fear... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41805497)

Judging from Valve's support on Windows, they're just going to ignore support. Every Source engine game running on my current machine eventually crashes it, sometimes within minutes, sometimes within hours. Burn in apps for CPU, memory, and video card show nothing is wrong, and looking at my temperature probes, my machine gets much hotter with these apps than it gets when running their games. Unreal engine games are fine. Various 2D games are fine. Obviously they're doing something funny, but good luck actually getting in touch with an engineer.

Valve has this following among gamers that they're great, and that's because they have a knack for making games people want to play. But they're absolutely customer hostile, also evidenced by the way they're fine with revoking all your games if you do one chargeback, cross-banning you from all Valve games if they think you've been cheating in any one of them, etc.

Re:Fear... (2, Informative)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 2 years ago | (#41805575)

What I fear is that Valve will dive deep into Linux, and then suddenly realize that supporting software like steam and games on Linux may be a bit more challenging than they thought it would.

The myriad hardware types out there with myriad sets of less-than-optimal drivers might present myriad problems, even if Valve does master the video-card/opengl end of things. I know I get vastly different experiences with Ubuntu depending on if I install it on one desktop versus another versus my laptop. They all have their own sets of issues, and none of them are remotely perfect.

Linux has achieved feature-parity with Windows at last!

Longer, slightly less snarky explanation follows: if you seriously think this differentiates Linux from Windows in any way, you are completely mistaken. The situation with hardware and drivers on Windows is so dire that it is often necessary to install an older version of a driver just to play a game without it crapping. This has come up time and again even with nVidia hardware on Windows. They "fix" something so a new, important game works and your old game stops working. And you can't buy too new a card to solve the problem either, because if you do the old driver that works "properly" won't support it. I've had similar problems on Linux, so, like I said — feature-parity.

Re:Fear... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41805591)

And Windows Games run so well with all video cards

Re:Fear... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41805641)

On the other side, if Valve only supports two or three hw configurations and a lot of gamers will follow them to Linux that will drive the development of all the Linux desktop. Distributions will standardize around those configurations and people will buy that kind of hardware. I don't know if we could call that a virtuous feedback loop but it should be self reinforcing.

Re:Fear... (1)

robmv (855035) | about 2 years ago | (#41805697)

Something to support is better than nothing to support (the direction where Windows is headed is of a fully locked down store)

Re:Fear... (1)

sl4shd0rk (755837) | about 2 years ago | (#41805769)

suddenly realize that supporting software like steam and games on Linux may be a bit more challenging than they thought it would.

Linux has really stabilized since the days of 199? and the communities which form around the different distros keep things moving and current. What we will most likely see is Steam going with a supported version on Ubuntu and then the communities implementing the library/graphics support (if needed) into each distro -- but to keep the amount of static down on the support lines, you'll probably have to be running the officially supported Ubuntu version to open support tickets.

I think Valve is well aware of the potential Linux-specific problems because they've been at this for a while now and still going. What's more interesting is they are still expressing distaste over the direction Microsoft has gone and how it affects the gaming community. Other game devs will be taking note, but probably not the big ones like EA -- they just don't give a f---. They can afford to put out buggy crap and people still buy it.

Gaming is Valve's bread and butter and Gabe Newell doesn't strike me as an idiot. If he's saying things are seriously f'ed-up with windows 8, that's worth taking note of.

I think the funny part of all this is that right now, people dual boot to game on Windows. In a few years, that's totally going to switch and people will dual boot only to open MS Office.. lol

Re:Fear... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41805785)

The point is that the next platform for gaming consoles will be Linux. That is exactly why Microsoft invested millions to subsidize the windows based XBOX and buy market share.

Re:Fear... (1)

emilper (826945) | about 2 years ago | (#41805789)

Steam already runs on Ubutu ... no games last time I checked, which was about two month ago

PlayOnLinux can install a lot of games from GoG, then you have Desura with some indie games, Humble Bundle and quite a lot of small developers that dive deep into Linux and find it good enough. BTW, Android is running on a Linux (the kernel) and there are lots of games there that could be ported to GNU/Linux

Win8 more of a tablet OS (2)

blackdragon07 (1357701) | about 2 years ago | (#41805219)

I think the reason is because Windows 8 to me seems more like a tablet OS instead of a PC OS. But i would love to see a push towards Linux as the new platform for gaming. But it would require more big names to push that direction also as Valve seems to be pushing.

Just greed. (5, Insightful)

Haxagon (2454432) | about 2 years ago | (#41805235)

Windows 8 isn't had for gaming, it's just bad for Valve. Vale has wanted Steam to be a general App Store for a long while, and if regular plebes start using the Windows Marketplace, they'll lose that battle before they even begin. Valve's just concerned with their potential market being at risk.

Perhaps, but... (5, Insightful)

Junta (36770) | about 2 years ago | (#41805351)

In this case, Valve's agenda is the lesser of two evils. Either MS gets their way and Linux desktops continue with the relatively sparse gaming library compared to Windows systems, or Valve gets their way and at least Linux gets a lot of the titles that were formerly Windows-only.

I'd rather a viable company scheme be one that operates within the structure of the general structure of Linux based desktops than requiring Windows or wine. Purists can still run their desktop with the same (or even better) selection of truly free software, and the rest of us can use a free desktop without compromising or dual boot to get at a few titles we really would enjoy.

Re:Just greed. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41805427)

conjecture and bias does not a valid arguemnt make.

Re:Just greed. (0)

ndtechnologies (814381) | about 2 years ago | (#41805433)

Thank you! My sentiments exactly. Valve hates the idea of the Windows store with dirt cheap apps, that's ALL it is. Linux doesn't have this, so naturally it's "just better" than Windows 8. Whatever. If Linux is really better than Windows, for gaming, then they would've had a real Linux client over 5 years ago. I call BS.

Re:Just greed. (1)

ichthus (72442) | about 2 years ago | (#41805441)

How is this greed?

Re:Just greed. (1)

DarkOx (621550) | about 2 years ago | (#41805467)

I suspect they typical gamer is not doing anything on their home PC that requires windows other than Gaming. They are also the tech comfortable if not actually savy types who can adapt to a different word processor or mail client. Probably even a different finance package for the small percentage that use them if their existing one won't work on wine. Remember your grown up gamer demographic is males 18-39 or so last I checked. The rest are kids still and its not the 1990's any more. The folks affluent enough to have children buying Valve's current releases are also affluent enough to have a separate PC or laptop for the kids. Who won't mind moving to Linux at all if their games work; it might even make them feel 1337 using something to high tech for Mom and Dad.

In short Valve might be in a position to drive their best customers toward Linux desktops; especially if they can get a few other industry players to go along with the move.

Re:Just greed. (5, Insightful)

Microlith (54737) | about 2 years ago | (#41805475)

Wouldn't you be concerned if the vendor of the OS you're dependent on suddenly comes along and decides to push their own store with it? You end up like IE6, one dominant platform for the OS. And given that Microsoft has very obvious goals of deprecating Win32 in favor of WinRT, which requires software using it come from the store, yes Valve has every reason to be worried. As does every other software vendor out there, because this gives Microsoft an overwhelming amount of power, over both them and you.

Pushing to make Linux a viable platform is good for everyone.

Re:Just greed. (1)

Rockoon (1252108) | about 2 years ago | (#41805487)

Note that Valve has recently scrambled to get application software onto Steam. A move they should have done 6 years ago. If Microsoft now moves to implement the Windows Store for Vista/7, Steam might be in some real trouble with regards to market share in the near future, let alone the far future.

Re:Just greed. (1)

blane.bramble (133160) | about 2 years ago | (#41805539)

Maybe, but in Valve's case adding Linux gaming is about value-add. If I can buy a game on Steam that I can then run on my choice of OS (Windows, Linux, Mac) without having to commit to one of the other (maybe it's Windows at work, Linux at home, or vice versa), then this is a huge additional choice for a percentage of the market - one that Microsoft will not be able to match. If they can ensure that cross-platform multiplayer works as expected, then they have a serious winner on their hands - buy your game from Steam and be able to play against any of your mates, without having to worry what computer they have, or buy from another app store and, well, maybe it works.

Re:Just greed. (1)

tlhIngan (30335) | about 2 years ago | (#41805547)

Windows 8 isn't had for gaming, it's just bad for Valve. Vale has wanted Steam to be a general App Store for a long while, and if regular plebes start using the Windows Marketplace, they'll lose that battle before they even begin. Valve's just concerned with their potential market being at risk.

Exactly.

Sure it's great that Linux gets all these games, but really, the move for Valve to Linux is basically to be one of the first to offer their app store (Steam - probably the first of the concept we recognize today) on a platform that's lacking one.

Support isn't an issue - after all, Valve can deal with it the same way you deal with it on Windows or OS X - you ship every damn library you need (including C library) All they need to support in the end is the lowlevel X protocol - from Xlib up, Steam can supply their own versions.

Windows 8 threatened their bread and butter, so they're preparing alternatives, like any good company would. And yes, Steam is just as curated as any other app store. Greenlight was created to appear more "open", as they don't accept any old project.

(Yes, I know of one developer who has games on almost all consoles - Wii, PS3, Xbox360, PSP, Vita (no DS as there wasn't enough horesepower), and on other platforms - Android, iOS, and OS X. But they have no Windows port and Valve refused to get back to them for putting it on Steam. So they're in an odd situation where everyone WANTS a PC port and they have ports to practically everything else... but Greenlight only got them to around 65%)

Re:Just greed. (1)

L4t3r4lu5 (1216702) | about 2 years ago | (#41805787)

Hahaha, good one. They pick Ubuntu to compete on, which is the only distro (excluding subsidiary forks like Mint, obviously) which has the Software Center: An app store for Linux, only everything is free.

My biggest concern with this avenue is that it's only new games, specifically from Valve, specifically on the Source engine, which will run on Linux. 90% of the rest of the games are useless. They will get Indie support, but I doubt the big studios will go for it.

I'm for fully switching as well. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41805253)

I'm getting sick of Windows, sick of its crap, sick of Microsoft ditching pros for complete morons and non-business uses almost entirely.

Unless I absolutely have to get Windows WhateverNextCrap version, Windows XP will remain the last one I will use.
Vista is terrible, 7 is literally Vista with less features and slightly faster, 8 is a tablet OS thrown on top of 7 and slightly faster, oh did I mention less features and even more obtuse to use as well?

I've used Linux on and off over the years, and I am a programmer so any possible missing features will be pretty trivial to port over.
Gaming is pretty much the only reason I remain, and laze.
I'm making a new computer now. What becomes the main OS is another question.
I know Linux tends to have noticeably faster graphics in games, and usually better speeds overall because memory.
One day.

Re:I'm for fully switching as well. (2, Insightful)

bhcompy (1877290) | about 2 years ago | (#41805343)

7>XP. Sorry, AC Chief.

Re:I'm for fully switching as well. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41805499)

Good luck with porting over those pretty trivial missing features, master programmer.

Re:I'm for fully switching as well. (1)

Electricity Likes Me (1098643) | about 2 years ago | (#41805503)

Seconding this. The only reason I'm booted into Windows at the moment is to play Endless Space.

And customers? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41805261)

Linux has everything they need: good OpenGL, pulseaudio, OpenAL and input support

I think it's always been true that there have been alternatives to DOS and Windows that were superior based on technology and price.

nvidia drivers? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41805263)

>> Linux has everything they need

except driver support from nvidia

Not an open platform? (4, Insightful)

dstyle5 (702493) | about 2 years ago | (#41805269)

Steam works the same in Windows 8 as in Windows 7 from what I've seen thus far. There is no way most gamers would buy a game in the Microsoft app store if the same game was available on Steam. Seems like Valve is more concerned about the competition from the Microsoft App Store than about how open Windows 8 as an O/S is.

Re:Not an open platform? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41805419)

Agreed, I had no issue with Steam in Windows 8. Valve simply doesn't want competition; they seemed to have no issue using MacOS with its app store.

I am fully for Linux gaming, but it's not such an impossible idea to sell that you need to make up artificial reasons.

Re:Not an open platform? (1)

ndtechnologies (814381) | about 2 years ago | (#41805451)

Exactly.

Re:Not an open platform? (4, Insightful)

Microlith (54737) | about 2 years ago | (#41805495)

WinRT is not open at all, and Microsoft intends on deprecating Win32 in favor of it. I imagine it won't happen until Windows 9, but eventually the newest version of DirectX will require use of WinRT (probably WinRT 2.0 when they iron out the last of the Win32 dependencies) at which point Microsoft will move to close off the openness of the PC completely, reserving Win32 access and whatnot to "legacy VMs" and "Enterprise" platforms.

And it's not really fair to call it "competition" when the store is pushed by the company whose OS holds a monopoly in the market it'll be pushed on.

Guess they don't want to succeed (2, Insightful)

Ravaldy (2621787) | about 2 years ago | (#41805279)

If they move to Linux they will fail. I myself am a gamer and all my friends who also game aren't techies. There is no way in hell they will be installing Linux on their computers.

If they focus their product dev to Linux it will sink the company.

Re:Guess they don't want to succeed (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41805531)

So what you're saying is that once you cant get games for windows anymore, you're going to stick with windows?
I seriously doubt that.

Re:Guess they don't want to succeed (1)

DarwinSurvivor (1752106) | about 2 years ago | (#41805599)

The biggest resource sink for high end games is graphics (audio is fairly low-demand). With Steam using OpenGL, it should be pretty easy for a company that size to keep both platforms on a more or less equal footing (barring driver issues).

It's great for gaming (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41805295)

Just so long as you don't have an nVidia, AMD, or intel graphics card.

Or want sound that's in sync and in more than 2 channels.

And as long as you don't need HD full screen video cutscenes.

I guess if you consider editting .conf files to be a game, it's the best gaming platform out there.

Ubuntu has an app store too, as does OSX, so I guess those aren't open platforms either.

Good luck to you, Valve! One day we'll look back and remember when you were relevant, sort of.

WTF? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41805301)

Unless I am mistaken, you can install apps on Windows 8 outside of the app store - how is this closed?

It seems that Valve is just bitching about competition in the 'one-stop-download-shop' market. Unless MS prevent valve from installing Steam on Windows 8, I can't see this being anything else.

If Valve says so many will listen (5, Insightful)

CAPSLOCK2000 (27149) | about 2 years ago | (#41805309)

Valve is one of the most influential companies in the gaming world. If they speak people will listen.
This single statement will cause thousands of gamers to check out Linux.

This is a market that is willing to spend hundreds of dollars and hours of tweaking to gain a few percent more performance. Any rumour about a better system will cause a flood of gamers that want to be the first to get the advantage.

Re:If Valve says so many will listen (1)

DarwinSurvivor (1752106) | about 2 years ago | (#41805623)

I think it would be hillarious if gamers starting building linux machines because they get an extra 5fps and doing everything else in windows (as dual-boot or a separate machine).

Re:If Valve says so many will listen (4, Informative)

Rockoon (1252108) | about 2 years ago | (#41805747)

This is a market that is willing to spend hundreds of dollars and hours of tweaking to gain a few percent more performance.

Umm, no. Check out Steam's hardware survey sometime. The most common CPU speed is ~2.5ghz and the most common number of cores is 2. There is definitely an enthusiast gaming market, but Valve isnt really serving it. Valve is serving what is essentially everyone (at the moment.)

Trivial! (2)

aglider (2435074) | about 2 years ago | (#41805317)

Maybe only Windows 8 is better on Windows 8 than on Linux.
Maybe Unless specifically designed to be the other way around.

Valve Box (2)

IMathGood (2722541) | about 2 years ago | (#41805333)

Now the interesting question is if Valve will release a standardized system specs and the a steam linux release creating a de facto "Valve Box".

Re:Valve Box (1)

Stoopiduk (1593855) | about 2 years ago | (#41805659)

Having been out of high end PC Gaming for a number of years, I'd need an accessible go to resource for specs and support info before I considered investing in and building a box for Steam on Linux.

Is there a candidate for such a resource already?

lol (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41805341)

The idea that Windows 8 is bad for gaming is plain bullshit, period.

better than Windows 8 for (5, Interesting)

dtjohnson (102237) | about 2 years ago | (#41805373)

The problem with Windows 8 is that it isn't the best choice for anything anymore. Want to run old Windows apps? Want to run old games? Want to develop new games (as in TFA)? Want to run current Windows apps? Want a tested, stable Windows platform? Want a minimal hardware Windows platform? Whatever your question, there are better alternatives than Windows 8. Microsoft has really dug themselves into a deep hole at the moment...and the implications for the future are breathtaking.

Re: better than Windows 8 for (0)

Ravaldy (2621787) | about 2 years ago | (#41805691)

You clearly hate MS and I'm happy for you but you don't know anything about Windows. Linux doesn't provide what most users need which is ease of usage and maintenance. I have yet to see a trouble free distribution of Linux that can get you up and running on an old computer let alone a new computer. Yet, Windows 7 was a breeze to install on all 30 machines at my work. If drivers were required, that was also easy. In addition to that, it's been almost 3 years now and I have had ZERO issues with the OS. The issues usually stem from applications that are poorly developped. You will get that on any OS you use.

Please Clarify (3)

ab_iron (622116) | about 2 years ago | (#41805377)

The heading is somewhat misleading. I think that this should be clarified that Linux provides a better environment for game development. Linux has not actually hit that tipping point of having more available games.

THIS LIST != "BETTER" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41805395)

http://linuxfonts.narod.ru/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.html

Valve wants to be the Linux App Store (3, Informative)

David Gerard (12369) | about 2 years ago | (#41805413)

Steam is already an effective and popular app store on Windows. And they hope to become the proprietary app store on Linux. That's why Valve is so dead against Windows 8 - Microsoft could take away their status as the app store.

Hmmm... ValveOS? SteamOS? (5, Interesting)

Rogerborg (306625) | about 2 years ago | (#41805423)

Roll another Debian-a-like, tailor it to games, market it through Steam to Windows users and say "Why update to Windows 8? Here's a free OS. Live boot it and see if you like it."

Disclaimer: the author is tired of keeping a creaking XP partition going just for Steam, and would bite their hand off to get in on a beta and help out.

Re:Hmmm... ValveOS? SteamOS? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41805605)

My guess is they will do exactly that, plus in addition setting up dual boot linux from steam and probably also an OpenGL-based API for developers as a replacement for DirectX. Whether they succeed depends on how many developers they can move away from DirectX.

A console could also succeed right now (before PS4 and next XBox come out), but its very risky business.

Argument from fallacy: Win 8 IS an open platform. (2)

Coolhand2120 (1001761) | about 2 years ago | (#41805529)

it is not an open platform anymore

What the fuck are you talking about? I'm running windows 8 right now with with your piece of shit bloatware steam running constantly in the background. If that's not an open platform maybe I don't understand what an open platform is. Just because MS has a program exactly like your program, but not as intrusive, you have to go around name calling? I'm not a fan of the Win8 market program, and I'll most likely never use it, but that doesn't "close" the OS. The OS works just like every other windows OS. You can install still anything you like on it.

Great! (0)

Gumbercules!! (1158841) | about 2 years ago | (#41805541)

Oh good! It's the Year Of The Linux Desktop all over again!

Or rather, here we see Valve trashing Windows 8 but not genuinely because it's worse than Windows 7 for games (because it's not, as it basically supports everything Windows 7 did) - but because it challenges Steam's revenue stream. Windows 8 has it's own app deployment store which could theoretically challenge Steam as a method for emptying people's bank accounts. That's what this is about - money, not platforms and how good they are or aren't. In any case, Windows 8 is no more open or closed than Windows 7 - there's nothing seeming to stop me running Steam on my copy, anyway.

Windows has inertia and incumbency behind it and this cannot be underestimated. Linux has, let's be generous and say a few million gamers, World Wide, absolute tops (wikipedia seems to think there's about 13 million Ubuntu installs, not all of which are game rigs by a long shot - Windows has like 1.5 billion installed systems). Which platform are gaming companies going to code for, first, do you think? *Even* if Valve makes games for Linux (and they probably will), what's the bet they will make more money on Windows for the next generation or two *at least* (if not forever - unless we include Android in the Linux camp). If you don't include mobile OSs and stick to desktops, Windows remains at about 92% of the install base (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Windows#Usage_share).

Not that I particularly care which platform "wins" - if games start coming out on Linux, I will happily use Linux to play the games I play (which admittedly, isn't a lot). I just cannot see the hundreds of millions of kid gamers out there switching to Linux on their gaming rigs (some of which are shared family PCs) and losing their back catalogue of games. A lot of these guys aren't as computer literate / adventurous as they like to think they are.

Horses for courses (1)

Tapewolf (1639955) | about 2 years ago | (#41805553)

One of the things I'm worried about is that Windows has traditionally had better backwards compatibility, from the point of view that you may well want to fire them up again in a decade or so. For instance, Rune (Lokisoft) and RTCW (Id/Raven) from 10 years ago are a pain to make work and in the case of Rune do very odd things like the trees being bent over or upside-down.

On the other hand, I had a far easier time making Morrowind, SS2 and even Thief 2 run inside WINE than I did in Windows.

This'll be a joy (1)

Stoopiduk (1593855) | about 2 years ago | (#41805561)

I get to add another OS to my MacBook. It was so difficult to find games worth playing on OSX that I installed Win7 with bootcamp. Now I'll feel morally obliged to install Linux too.

Interesting that Windows 7 continues to be the most stable operating system on my early 2012 MBP since I upgraded OSX to Mountain Lion. I wonder if I'll have as much luck with a Linux install? I wish them every luck, and will certainly show my support as I do my best to stay away from awful walled gardens, but it seems like a big ask compatibility-wise for Steam, which on both OSX and Win7 is already a programme with multiple bugs and infuriating crashing habits in my experience.

But the APIs? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#41805597)

There's no good gaming APIs to use. Where is the DirectX equivalent?

If you think developers are going to spend the resources to learn entirely new set of APIs in a completely unfamiliar environment, then you need to get out of your basement more. The guys from Valve need not worry about the Windows app store, because the only thing in there will be casual games that run on ARM. Your shit has to run on ARM (WindowsRT) to get in the app store. That excludes like 99% of Steam games.

So where will I go for my non-casual x86 games on my Windows 8 box? Steam. The Windows 8 app store and Steam are completely different gaming markets. Valve needs to stop getting all the nerds' hopes up acting like all the great games are going to get ported to Linux. Most of their shit will just run Win32 in wine or whatever you call your Win32 subsystem these days. Who knows how fucking many forks and versions and different recursive acronyms of that shit you have now. It's sad, really. Like a guy showing up with a ram mascot head at a Microsoft product launch.

Ship Half-Life 3 already, Valve! (1)

badford (874035) | about 2 years ago | (#41805661)

If you want to make tons of money, just ship another AAA game.

Windows 8 people will buy it and they will pay for it whether it is on Steam, Xbox live, Windows Store, what have you.

Put your resources and talent where it belongs.

Half-life was the bees knees way back when. I remember when the first head crab jumped out at me. almost shat meself, me did.

HL2 was rip-roarin fun.

HL episodes were like dancing naked in a filed of posies.

Focus all of your resources on HL3. Make it epic. Why are you still reading this, Valve? Off with you, then...

Something seems a little...off about this. (1)

tacroy (813477) | about 2 years ago | (#41805685)

Everything I have heard is that win8 desktop mode will run programs the same way that win7 does. So....steam will run and games will run same as they always have. It SEEMS (and please correct me if I'm wrong) is that the only large change is that Microsoft is introducing a competing digital store for games. So it sounds like win8 isn't bad for gaming as much as it could be bad for Valve since they will now have competition. That opens a whole new issue: Is it unethical / Illegal for Microsoft to support their own store over valve's store? But isn't that the current state of macOS, which Valve is currently moving into?
Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?