EFF Moves To Nix Trademark On "Gaymer" 231
netbuzz writes "Spurred by the mark holder's cease and desist letter to Reddit's subreddit r/gaymer, the Electronic Frontier Foundation today officially petitioned the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office to rescind its grant of a trademark registration on the word "gaymer". 'This registration should never have been granted,' said EFF Intellectual Property Director Corynne McSherry. 'Gaymer is a common term that refers to members of this vibrant gaming community, and we are happy to help them fight back and make sure the term goes back to the public domain where it belongs.'"
Really!? (Score:5, Interesting)
- From a confused gamer
Re:Really!? (Score:5, Funny)
don't worry, buddy. lots of people are confused and struggle with their identity. no one will judge you. just be yourself and everything will be o.k.
Re: (Score:3)
Not shirts... handkerchiefs [wikipedia.org]
Not sure if MMO's fall under S&M or Bondage.
Re:Really!? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Really!? (Score:5, Informative)
Have you ever seen what happens in online games/communities with people who are even vaguely suspected of being gay? It's not pretty generally. So gay people tend to congregate in communities in which they can play without having to be careful about what they say and without having to pretend, lest they be offended/insulted/stalked/threatened/spammed or other fun things.
Re:Really!? (Score:5, Funny)
That's why I game as a gay player. It's so fun to detect the noobie "you're a faggot!!!@#$!@#$" little boys and headshot them for their trouble.
Re: (Score:3)
Though to be fair; I kinda hate how the word 'gay' (to depict something to be bad) seems to have started in online games (or that's where I first picked it up), and now also seems to be common ground in real life. When I still used to admin a gameserver, I used to explicitly ban people for that (after giving one warning). Seems to be a lot harder to do in real li
Re: (Score:2)
Seriously we used to have fun with those filters. That and my fave was the ones where you'd get people using macros with key binds, then you throw and unbind command at their client and they get all pissy and claim you hacked them and that they are calling the cops and the FBI. I about pissed my pants more than onc
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Hell, if something was gay in the olden days, it used to be merry/cheerful.
But as said, willing to be proven wrong...
Re:Really!? (Score:4, Informative)
"The use of "gay" in this particular way was first recorded at the end of the 1970s and developed among US high school students" [bbc.co.uk]
"The "Dictionary of American Slang" reports that gay (adj.) was used by homosexuals, among themselves, in this sense since at least 1920. Rawson ["Wicked Words"] notes a male prostitute using gay in reference to male homosexuals (but also to female prostitutes) in London's notorious Cleveland Street Scandal of 1889. Ayto ["20th Century Words"] calls attention to the ambiguous use of the word in the 1868 song "The Gay Young Clerk in the Dry Goods Store," by U.S. female impersonator Will S. Hays, but the word evidently was not popularly felt in this sense by wider society until the 1950s at the earliest." [etymonline.com]
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Really!? (Score:5, Insightful)
Why don't you find out? There might be many reasons why gay gamers would group together like this, one being the disgusting, knuckledragging homophobic and sexist abuse that is rampant in the gaming community, kicking back against that. Being proud of who you are. And you only have to read the cretinous, ugly responses to this post to see the truth of how marglinalised supposedly intelligent nerds can make gay people feel. Use your fucking brain for gods sake.
Re: (Score:3)
When I tire of humanity and its slings and arrows, im labeled anti-social.
Perhaps some self reflection could help you here.
When Gays do it, its because they are persecuted and we should all be more understanding of the plight of the gays.
That is exactly right; they are, and we should.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
First of all, that's not true. Straight white American males are not persecuted in any way. Secondly, you think we shouldn't be more accepting of gay people simply because other people are persecuted also? Nice.
Re: (Score:2)
Secondly, you think we shouldn't be more accepting of gay people simply because other people are persecuted also?
....yes? I mean, how do you judge which persecuted group to be accepting towards more than any other persecuted group? Isn't it better to accept all groups equally?
Personally, that's all I want, to be treated equal. I don't want or need any sort of special treatment not afforded to other groups.
Re: (Score:2)
Precisely, Goddess. That was my point.
Re:Really!? (Score:4, Informative)
Being attacked is not the same as being persecuted. You have not been denied a loan on the sole basis that you are a white male. You have not been barred from staying in a hotel because you are a white male. You have not been told you can't marry your life partner because you are a strait white male. You have not been denied a job because you are a straight white male. You have not been denied a raise or paid less than others for the same work because you are a straight white male.
Because you are a straight white male, you get privileged over others. That is the exact opposite of persecution. You can deny that all you like, but it's true.
Re:Really!? (Score:5, Funny)
An appropriate moment from the Simpsons:
"We're here! We're queer! Get used to it!"
Lisa: "We are used to it. You do this every year."
Except when we're not. (Score:5, Insightful)
Even ignoring the cesspool that is the twelve year olds of FPS games, no, we're not used to it.
MMOs are a prime example. Spend five minutes in one, and you'll see rampant homophobia, bigotry and sexism - ranging from the sadly accepted as tame (EVE Online, usually when one of the aforementioned twelve year olds is relieved of their poorly fitted ship) to making you wonder if you've logged into a fucking Klan meeting (Hi, raiding guilds of EverQuest 2, WoW, et cetera).
Gamers, like most psuedo-anonymous people on the Internets, are largely shitheads; shitheads who will never shut up about buttsex, women making sandwiches, or traps.
Oh thats nothing (Score:5, Informative)
If you want to see *really* abusive language and offensive comments concentrated into their purest form, go play an mmoRPG and try *Roleplaying*. Nothing gets the 12 yr old mentality for heaping offensive abuse on other players up more than encountering a roleplayer in a roleplaying game, believe me.
In Dark Age of Camelot we had 3 Roleplaying/PvP servers, with a specific set of rules intended to foster RP behavior. We also had some of the best PvPing in the game going. However, there were regularly people who would create a character on one of these RP servers (there were like 17 other servers they could have chosen instead) *solely* for the purpose of standing in a populated area and heaping abuse on anyone they found. I would say I appealed at least 1 person per play session typically for this sort of behavior. I just don't get it. Its not like I logged into the non-Rp servers to insult them for not choosing to roleplay, that would just be a massive waste of my time if nothing else. I can't imagine being so bored as to have nothing better to do that insult people I will never play with.
Now, I am not gay, but I can easily understand why those who are would group together to form their own community and avoid the abuse they probably get on a regular basis - or at least manage to avoid the typically offensive speech of the gamers around them.
I cannot really imagine wanting to claim a term that would focus that abuse on me though. That seems *to me* to smack of wanting a reason to get outraged and complain about. Still whatever fills your boots I suppose...
However I agree that online gamers are typically highly offensive and ignorant as a baseline behavior. Sure, some rise above that but they are the rarity, the vast, vast majority start at pig-ignorant and dig their way down from there. Admittedly this is mostly true only of RPGs that have a heavy PvP element to them. My wife plays LOTRO and it seems fairly mild, but then PvP there is a minor afterthought really.
Re: (Score:2)
things that the Server Folks could do to help fix this problem
1 have a class of Ancient Epic NPCs that could NUKE a character for this kind of thing (get caught and find yourself in the Wylds trying to fight an Elder Wyrm Dragon with half of your "toys" left behind in town)
2 have a Demi-God Wizard convert the character in question into a young girl/pixie (so they drop any armour and weapons, get slapped with a LolKitteh chat filter and get trapped into a special "safe area") and then if they try to just RNC
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
they'd be called faggots online regardless of them being gay or not. of course that can be pretty confusing for any slanderphobe.
but.. who the fuck would like the trademark on gaymer?
Re: (Score:3)
MMOs are a prime example. Spend five minutes in one, and you'll see rampant homophobia, bigotry and sexism - ranging from the sadly accepted as tame (EVE Online, usually when one of the aforementioned twelve year olds is relieved of their poorly fitted ship) to making you wonder if you've logged into a fucking Klan meeting (Hi, raiding guilds of EverQuest 2, WoW, et cetera).
I think that Mr. Sulu has the right response for this. [youtube.com]. :D
Re: (Score:2)
None of that means they aren't used to the presence of gay people. It just means they are also dickheads.
It can be incredibly hostile (Score:5, Insightful)
I played Lord of the Rings Online the most and was a casual raid leader (meaning I organized and ran raids for casual players where often the loot would go to someone who had a birthday or fought well or been really unlucky rather then loot tables, I also didn't care about levels or experience). They were somewhat popular and I was asked to lead other groups... and then found out that in the NON-PUG groups, getting people to talk was a LOT easier. In the PUG raids everyone had sound on but for some reason few had a microphone. Suddenly in the closed raids, most had. And high voices.
Turns out I had been gaming with a lot of women. And I mean a LOT. Some were raids were majority female but when I asked them to join a pug something became clear... they were willing to play BUT could I not reveal they were female.
I have had several discussions online and in the real world were I was told about the kind of abuse female players receive. And this is NOT the rage kind when someone just says "bitch" or the sexual innuendo. Women talk like that too. It were attacks that yes as the AC says, you would expect in Klan meeting. One type of attack is that women have no right to play the game... I mean seriously. WTF?
AND it is not just trolling, there are a lot of REAL misogynists online. They can't vent their putrid bile in real life because they would get beaten up but online they let go.
So... the women hide online and only reveal their gender if they feel safe. AND THAT IS NOT OKAY! If you think it is, then I hate your fucking guts and hope you die before spreading your diseased genes. Because THIS attitude is what fuels extremists by tolerating them. It is basically nothing else then "if you don't want to be raped, don't reveal your gender". It is YOUR kind that created the burkha.
People should be free to be who they are. Yes, there can be gentle ribbing like Q.I. makes fun of homosexuals and hetero's alike BUT that is NOT what gay and female gamers are talking about. Gay and female gamers don't want special regonizition, they simply want to be able to be who they are without getting attacked simply for speaking with a high voice.
And only a closet bigot would start an argument over whether they got the right to be who they are.
Re: (Score:2)
In the PUG raids everyone had sound on but for some reason few had a microphone. Suddenly in the closed raids, most had. And high voices.
Sounds like xbox live.
Turns out I had been gaming with a lot of women
Ah... nevermind.
Re:It can be incredibly hostile (Score:5, Informative)
No, no they are not. When I go online and people find out I am male, nothing happens. When women go online, they are harassed constantly by idiots. Constant messages asking for pictures, a/s//l, etc. They can handle just the random hate filled things as well as any of us can...they are not being singled out. But when their sex is revealed, they are.
So to say we are treated just as bad as women...well, that is misogynistic garbage for a bunch of pathetic men who have trouble with women because they are socially awkward.
So grow up. When men start hiding their sex online for fear of being targeted, then maybe you would have a point.
Re: (Score:2)
This only would make sense to someone who is really mentally fucked up.
When he says people should be free to be who they are, he is talking about fundamental things such as the fact that they are a female. He is not talking about people outside of the norm. It doesn't infringe on me when someone is female. Some sexual pervert harassing me...sorry, that does violate that. Someone who is female or gay isn't pushing that on me. The sexual deviants and psychopaths out there are.
So feel free to be as screwe
Re: (Score:2)
Yes, people are mean to everyone online. The difference is you aren't pre-judged based upon your sex on whether you are good or not. You aren't harassed by these people constantly after they find out your sex.
But no, I have never had anyone tell me I didn't have the right to play the game. I know it is hard for some people, but you have to look at something from another's perspective. If you think the online experience for men and women are the same, you are flat out wrong.
Re:Really!? (Score:5, Informative)
If you want a legitimate answer from someone who's in one of the larger local Gaymer communities here's a couple of reasons:
1- Multiplayer gaming is an endless tirade of gay-this, faggot-that. It's nice to play games and socialise with people who aren't jerks. (Yes yes, harden the fuck up, etc - but it is annoying.)
2- It's an excuse to go hang out at a bar with a group of people with something in common every couple of weeks.
3- While I know it's not applicable to me (LTR), but the group I'm in has at least partly become a dating pool - for gay guys and girls, that's actually sometimes a bit harder than you may be used to.
Re: (Score:2)
"that's actually sometimes a bit harder than you may be used to."
That's what she said.
No, seriously though - a couple of friends of mine who are gay say they avoid this crap like the plague because what might ostensibly start as something well-intentioned often just ends up being queer-chat-line-hookup-central.
They've both said to me (entirely separately, they don't know each other) that they're frankly sick of the 'homofication' of everything. If they game, they game and don't really care to 'carry the ba
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
No, we don't prefer certain genres. And no, we don't demand gay sex in our games, though seeing gay and lesbian -relationships- or -characters- is nice. As for segregation - that implies walling ourselves off from the rest of the gaming community. We don't - usually, the most a 'gaymer' will do is join an LGBT-friendly guild. That's hardly a surprising move when you see some of the vitriol the gaming community at large directs at LGBT people - "faggot" is practically a synonym for any other insulting te
Re: (Score:2)
Agreed. As is the general issue outside of gaming, the "big deal" is probably a lack of understanding and exposure to the gay community (or legit homophobia).
I think it's easy for some people who have never directly experienced being part of a minority to forget how helpful it can be for those *in* a minority to identify themselves so they can find others to connect with and share their experiences with. As you alluded to, online gaming communities are often very homophobic (and racist and sexist) in their
Re: (Score:2)
I do agree that the term "gaymer" seems to segregate rather than integrate the gay gamers from the rest of us. However I believe the term in the article refers to a forum where they all congregated. I think it's a neat play on words and a cool name for a forum that they use share their experiences and thoughts with fellow gay gamers ( I assume that it what the forum is for ). I think the person who trademarked the term is a douche bag and I wish them luck in their legal battle.
Re:Really!? (Score:4, Funny)
Or just demand gay sex in the games they play?
They're still upset about the gender bias in Leisure Suit Larry.
Re: (Score:2)
Why the need to segregate gamers based on their personal sexuality?
Its to do with the "u r a fag!1" comment which seems popular on many online gaming communities.
It's an implied question. The answer is usually "no", "yes" or "none of your business". However, this was generating excessive traffic slowing down servers and also slowing down the whole experience due to the need to frequetly field the same question.
Now, the original querier can instead go to:
File > Options > Settings > Game > Users
Re: (Score:2)
I find it strange that so many people find it necessary to criticize us for forming a community based on shared interest.
Re:Really!? (Score:4, Informative)
Well, you know, that is a damn good question. And I know a number of people who have been kicked from a guild or clan or whatever after months to years of getting along fine with everyone, because someone heard them refer to a "boyfriend". And it seems to me that they would really, really, like an answer to that question.
But we don't have one.
So people who have gotten sick of thinking they found a social group to game with, and then getting kicked out of it or treated in really crappy ways, have started pre-identifying so they can find groups that will treat them basically like normal human beings.
Usually, the next response is the "erasure" response -- "people should just not talk about their sex lives, then it won't be an issue." That's bullshit. It's bullshit because it's only gay people who are told not to talk about their sexual or romantic lives. No one thinks anything of it when a guy mentions a wife or a girlfriend in a game, or when a girl mentions a husband or boyfriend. But if someone mentions hating mammogram machines, and six months later mentions going out for dinner with a girlfriend, bam, she's in trouble for "shoving her sex life in everyone's face".
The reality is, social interaction involves some talking about personal lives, and that's part of what makes people engage in social gaming activities to begin with. And the reality is, video game communities are visibly prone to treating people really badly if those personal lives are in some way gay. And as long as that's true, there'll be people using words like "gaymer", or creating "LGBT-friendly" guilds.
When the day comes that you can confidently join a random guild in an MMO and expect not to get harassed about being a "fag", I doubt you'll see any real interest in "LGBT-friendly" guilds. But that day is not today.
Re:Really!? (Score:4, Informative)
Both parties lose due to prior claims.
Gaymer's (http://www.gaymers.co.uk/) has been a UK cider producer since 1770 AD.
Re:Really!? (Score:5, Insightful)
Trademark doesn't work like that. Trademarks are only valid in particular regions. If Gaymer's is a UK cider producer since 1770AD, then they most likely hold a trademark in the UK. That doesn't mean that another entity can't register the same trademark somewhere else.
Re: (Score:3)
Re:Really!? (Score:5, Informative)
You're quite right. Trademarks are both geographically restricted and market restricted. If you're in a different market or a different location, the trademark doesn't apply.
And you have to register everywhere that you do business for the trademark to be valid in that region.
Re:Really!? (Score:4, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Indeed, and I figured out too late why my private pre-school failed: Nebraska Advanced Mind & Body Learning Academy.
Re:Really!? (Score:5, Insightful)
You can have trademarks of the same name applied to a different trade. I'm pretty sure that the cider production trade is rather unrelated to the glbt gaming culture trade.
Prior art as to its common use by glbt gamers going back a decade or two would be a more appropriate argument in the trademark dispute.
Re: (Score:3)
You can have trademarks of the same name applied to a different trade. I'm pretty sure that the cider production trade is rather unrelated to the glbt gaming culture trade.
Until Sid Meier's Beverage Tycoon is released, that is.
Re:Really!? (Score:5, Informative)
That's why Apple Records lost to Apple Computer.
Did they? [legalzoom.com] Apple Computer paid Apple Corp. in 1981 and then again in 1991. And even though Apple Computer won the first trial over iTunes [wikipedia.org] there was a good enough chance they would have lost on appeal that they bought the trademark lock, stock, and barrel from Apple Corp.
Re: (Score:2)
Trademarks are only for the area the business operates in, so as long as these guys are not producing cider it's fine.
Re: (Score:2)
Standard homophobic bigoted response to bring up bestiality like as if it's an equivalent. Nasty. When do you plan to come out of the closet?
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
A better question would be what's the difference between you and a pathetic dog molester. The answer is of course none. There is no difference between you and a pathetic dog molester. Because you are a pathetic dog molester. Which is why you demand dog molestation in the games you play. I'm going to go and trade mark 'dogmolestermer' to describe people like yourself.
Oh come on, now. It was just that one time, it was consensual, and the bitch said she was older than two!
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Really!? (Score:4, Funny)
Lingo faux paux are just as bad as fashion faux paux after all! Sometimes even worse!
q.e.d.
Re:Really!? (Score:4, Funny)
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
The expression is actually 'faux pas', which translates literally to 'false step' and is used in the same context as one would use "misstep"
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
No they don't.
bal -bals
fatal-fatals
banal-banals.
I'm sure there are other exceptions as well. Speaking of others
"There have been others, to be sure. There are always others, are there not? " - Lo Pan
"There have been udders, to be sure. There are always udders, are there not? " - Cow Pan
Re: (Score:2)
Attention seeking? No. It's a way for people to connect with others, which can be pretty difficult if you're part of a minority (as gay gamers are). Because of the relative anonymity of online gaming communities, casual racism, sexism and homophobia have been around for years (especially near the turn of the millennium when broadband become way more ubiquitous).
It's indeed "[a] need to label oneself to identify with a group and be part of a community", a need that virtually all humans share in some capacity
On pedophilia as an illness (Score:2)
> although I think we're all in agreement that pedophiles are awful, ... ... in the same way that rapists are awful: it is a one-way relationship. Were it more often a two-way relationship, it would not be socially abhorrent. Homosexuality was (and for many people still is) abhorrent, but it is acceptable because of the (most common) nature of the relationship.
> but at that point it's not preference but illness.
It is both.... That the preference shows elements of psychopathology and cognitive di [wikipedia.org]
In the UK... (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Only if they're putting cream in the cider.
If it's a common term (Score:2)
Why am I hearing it now for the first time?
Re: (Score:2)
Multiplayer chat is pretty terrible (Score:2)
I can see why they'd want their own sandbox. I was thinking about joining a BF3 clan for the first time, started the app process and payments, then promptly withdrew after listening to the supposedly "mature gamers only" spewing epithets. Reading it on a chat window is one thing, listening to it when you're trying to aim is something completely different.
Whenever I game... (Score:2)
Re:It's official!! (Score:5, Insightful)
And you, sir are a bigot.
Re:It's official!! (Score:5, Funny)
And you, sir are a bigot.
Or a homogot.
Re:It's official!! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:It's official!! (Score:4, Insightful)
If it's any less blatant than this it gets modded to +5 insightful.
Re:Look at me, I'm special! (Score:5, Funny)
How do you call gamers that love cheese? There must be a word for that.
The French.
Re: (Score:3)
Sort of on-topic, French get a lot of guff in international games, as do the quebecois. Surrender monkeys and lots of jokes about retreat and white flags.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
A little too much, maybe.
Re: (Score:3)
I am not sure how these people are demanding anything except the right to continue to call themselves what they have called themselves for years.
Do you even know whats going on here, you sound confused.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
I read the EFF page, the only demand I see is that they be allowed to use the name as they have for years. That is not ridiculous or laughable.
Considering how I feel your comments are misguided and silly, does that mean I am allowed to mock you?
Re: (Score:2)
"Gaymer" is not an actual dictionary word, therefore can not be part of the public domain. If they liked the name so much, they should have registered it as a trademark.
You are precisely what is wrong with popular linguistics and copyright law.
Re: (Score:3)
How do you call gamers that love cheese? There must be a word for that.
GruyÃrmers
Re:this is how EFF spends donation money? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:this is how EFF spends donation money? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
The problem is a commonly accepted term is not appropriate as a trademark. You can actually LOSE your trademark if you don't staunchly defend it against misuse (like calling all pain relievers "tylenol" instead of referring to the product "Tylenol"). If a company doesn't defend its trademark, the trademark disappears. Double trouble if you trademark a common phrase and try to suppress its use after the fact.
This guy is a fucking idiot and I guarantee he's going to lose the trademark.
Re:this is how EFF spends donation money? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:this is how EFF spends donation money? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
This type of thing existed far before the western world existed. 'I want what you have, and I want to take control of it' is as old as life. Literally as old as life.
So stop with your 'western civilization' bullshit.
Re: (Score:2)
The game only exists because the players created it. The game will go away if the players do. So hating the player is the appropriate remedy.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The problem is that now they want to send C&Ds to people who were already using the word when they filed for their trademark
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
If you were under the impression that gays don't bang drunk people they pick up at a meat rack bars like heterosexuals do then I have some bad news for you buddy...
Re: (Score:2)
At some point the only people shouting about how minority groups are the same as everyone else will be the minority groups themselves - it's already getting that way. No, you're not special bec
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)