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Alienware Swaps SteamOS For Windows

Soulskill posted about 4 months ago | from the missing-the-train dept.

Linux Business 173

An anonymous reader writes "Valve left many OEMs hanging when they delayed Steam machines until sometime next year to work out their controller issues. Many of these companies excitedly showed off new Steam machine hardware that they cannot ship, so Alienware has been the first to re-purpose its Debian-based Steam machine to be a Windows-based Steam machine bundled with an Xbox controller. While Windows 8.x has not been particularly well-received it does support a lot more games than Linux and when configured to boot straight into Steam Big Picture mode the influence of the underlying OS is visible only in the larger game library."

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Describe PUSSYING OUT (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47209321)

Thank you, Contestants!

Re:Describe PUSSYING OUT (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47209331)

It isn't "pussying out", Valve couldn't deliver so they found an alternative.

Re:Describe PUSSYING OUT (-1, Troll)

UltraZelda64 (2309504) | about 4 months ago | (#47209417)

And that alternative is selling "Steam Machines" with a Microsoft tax? Fuck Dell/Alienware. Note to self: Time to blacklist Alienware and NEVER buy a Steam Machine from them.

Re:Describe PUSSYING OUT (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47209461)

And that alternative is selling "Steam Machines" with a Microsoft tax?

The one that we have known about for years that you can get [theregister.co.uk] a [simos.info] refund [linux.com] for. [theopensourcerer.com] So did you not know that or are you just a defeatist?

Re:Describe PUSSYING OUT (5, Insightful)

Gadget_Guy (627405) | about 4 months ago | (#47209473)

Time to blacklist Alienware and NEVER buy a Steam Machine from them.

But surely you had already blacklisted Alienware because they have sold Windows-based computers for many years. And frankly, if you are going to blacklist any company that sells Microsoft-powered computers then you must have very limited range from which to choose.

The alternative to mounting a vendetta against the company is to just to grow up and simply not buy the products that you don't want. Then when the Steam-OS systems finally arrive then you can happily buy it, knowing that you weren't forced at gunpoint to pay any evil Microsoft tax.

Re:Describe PUSSYING OUT (4, Insightful)

Karmashock (2415832) | about 4 months ago | (#47209555)

Silly. The company must sell those units or take a loss. If Valve can't give them what they need to sell the units they MUST re-purpose them to sell.

What other OS could they use that would have as good a chance of actually selling? As is, Dell will likely take a loss on this project which means it was a financial and business mistake to do this much with Valve until they were ready.

Dell as you probably are aware is not flush with cash. They've had some very bad financial problems and they are in a very tough business. They cannot afford this crap.

To then blame them for not going down with the ship and taking an even bigger loss simply to spite microsoft is moronnic. It is an opinion morons have... you are therefore a moron.

Good day.

Re:Describe PUSSYING OUT (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47209851)

Silly. The company must sell those units or take a loss.

Ahh. Because Dell has never heard of just in time manufacturing and of course produced millions of these units five years ago in order to be ready for this. No chance it's a publicity campaign with either a couple of prototypes or a bunch of machines being made specially for this.

you are therefore a moron.

Good day.

And you must be the most intelligent guy on Slashdot. Such erudite commentry; how you brilliantly destroyed his point. Wow!!! No ad hominen for a master of debate such as yourself.

Re:Describe PUSSYING OUT (1)

Karmashock (2415832) | about 4 months ago | (#47209883)

If dell had no investment in the product line there would be nothing to repurpose or remarket.

Because there is that means there was... what is more, this is unlikely to be a long term product line since it is redundent with other products they're already selling.

Which means this product line will die out eventually. The only utility to Dell is in sustaining the product line in a fashion that can be repurposed again back into a Steam Machine or to exhaust sunk resources from the build up to what is likely a busted product line.

Use your brain. Think it through. Do the math.

You did none of these things. You came to a snap decision, threw out a preprocessed idea that you never achieved on your own but simply adopted without properly understanding, and then presumed to insult me simply because I rightly judged another person to be a fool.

What are you? Four years old? Small children have this reaction. They see people that are "mean" and they react against that instantly indifferent to context. A more mature posture would be to grasp that there are justifications for being harsh with people. And that it is not mean. It is just.

Act like a fool and be treated like a fool. That is reasonable.

Now because I'm sure you've got more ego then integrity, please hit me with another one of your sad attempts to brow beat me with your banal shallow grasp of wisdom.

Re:Describe PUSSYING OUT (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47210171)

Silly. The company must sell those units or take a loss. If Valve can't give them what they need to sell the units they MUST re-purpose them to sell.

What other OS could they use that would have as good a chance of actually selling? As is, Dell will likely take a loss on this project which means it was a financial and business mistake to do this much with Valve until they were ready.

Dell as you probably are aware is not flush with cash. They've had some very bad financial problems and they are in a very tough business. They cannot afford this crap.

To then blame them for not going down with the ship and taking an even bigger loss simply to spite microsoft is moronnic. It is an opinion morons have... you are therefore a moron.

This is moronic. They could simply have gone with any OS besides Windows. They could have recomissioned machines for another purpose.

There is a difference between "spiting microsoft" and "not doing business with convicted monopolists."

The parent is one-sided and naive sure, but so are you. There are countless choices. It is not as simple
as your imaginary scenario.

Parent saw the business world is about making friends and sucking up to the powers that be.

Act like a fool and be treated like a fool. That is reasonable.

Yes, and you wonder why some people do not like Microsoft. A boycott is a just response to a monopoly.

Pot, meet kettle.

Use your brain. Think it through. Do the math.

The truth is you can either support things you like or not.

The truth is "someone else will just give them money and do business with them, so it is OK for us to" is a child's line of thinking.

The "context" is the parent poster HAS integrity, and you are full of ego.

If "wisdom" is simply "who has the most money" you can keep your "wisdom."

Sucking up is now considered a virtue, "egoless" in your words. Fascinating.

If "just" is "take the money and shut up" you can keep your justice as well, prick.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but your philosophy of "money > everything else" is the definition of shallow, egotistical, and childish.

Parent wins simply because you are a loser.

Re:Describe PUSSYING OUT (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47210535)

moronnic

It's moronic, moron!

Re:Describe PUSSYING OUT (1)

Assmasher (456699) | about 4 months ago | (#47211017)

Good morning spelling Hitler! :)

Can't completely avoid monopolists (1)

tepples (727027) | about 4 months ago | (#47210911)

In this country, not doing business with monopolists would involve joining the Amish. Internet access is often a monopoly. Other utilities are monopolies. Besides, how long should such a conviction stay on a company's record? Should BP be boycotted because it bought Amoco, one of the Standard Oil companies?

Just-in-Time (2)

DrYak (748999) | about 4 months ago | (#47210273)

Please research this "Just-in-Time manufacturing" that the AC mentionned.
Dell [wikipedia.org] has *almost invented* the concept.

Their ARE NOT sitting on a bunch of thousands of useless premanufactured SteamBoxen that they need to get rid of. These box don't exist yet.
They don't even have a huge inventory of parts waiting to be assembled.
At most, what they have is a couple of prototype that they built in-house and that are ready to be replicated, once the orders start pouring in.

The problem isn't the stock.
The problem, as you mentionned yourself, is the money. Dell has some difficulties (current Asian no-name manufacturer are better than them at the JIT game [being closer to the manufacturing plants producing the part] and are outselling them).
They need to *SELL* something and they need to get diverse (selling as much new original and different products as possible. Selling only desktops won't cut it anymore).
They would have hoped to sell home consoles. Valve would have neen a nice way to have a piece of Sony's and Microsoft's pie. But Valve being Valve, there's no guarantee when they could sell official Steam machines.

So for now they settle in selling whatever else they can think of (a Windows-based living room machine), just to be able to sell something.

Re:Just-in-Time (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47210767)

You should research it more.

yes they build them at order, with *****prefab****** parts. Sure some is usable in other machines, but anything that makes it look like the steam box is not, they have a bunch of these parts and need to get rid of them.

They don't have a full assembly line that starts will oil and recycled metals and come back with pastic casings and shells and wiring.

So yes they probably have a ton of the steam box specific parts and want to get rid of them. Sure its about money too, but the systems don't just magically appear looking like they do.

Re:Just-in-Time WAS A JAP INVENTION (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47211067)

The Japs did this. That is the MAIN REASON Jap cars came to the States as cheap (low cost) as they were. Now look at them. GM, et al. took decades to copy them Japs. And the other Jap stuff, too, not just cars. You may point to China, but who cares about China. It will implode Real Soon Now...

Re:Describe PUSSYING OUT (1)

NotDrWho (3543773) | about 4 months ago | (#47211145)

Alienware is a business, not a fucking charity. They can't pay employee salaries on vague promises from Valve. When and *if* SteamOS is ready, I'm sure they'll make SteamOS machines. Until then, they still have to pay their rent.

It's Valve we're speaking about (1)

DrYak (748999) | about 4 months ago | (#47210193)

What other OS could they use that would have as good a chance of actually selling?

By the way:
- SteamOS *DOES* work
- XBox controller *DO* work under Linux.

As is, Dell will likely take a loss on this project which means it was a financial and business mistake to do this much with Valve until they were ready.

What the hell where they expecting? It's freaking Valve, with a track record to have completely random concept of "schedule".

Either Alienware should have considered this as a "prototype" (and SteamOS + XBox controler or Logitech or whatever would have been perfectly acceptable. With a paying option to get a Windows License).
Or Alienware should have waited until SteamOS is actually ready.

is moronnic. It is an opinion morons have... you are therefore a moron.

Namecalling is the best way to explain a point.

Re:It's Valve we're speaking about (1)

Karmashock (2415832) | about 4 months ago | (#47210279)

As to name calling, I have a very low expectation of anyone admitting fault on the internet since everyone seems to have a lot more ego then integrity. As such, I make my point to "MY" satisfaction and discharge whatever final comments need to be made to equalize the rhetorical crossfire. If people are being rude or absurd then I'm going to respond appropriately.

Re:It's Valve we're speaking about (1)

Xolvix (3649657) | about 4 months ago | (#47210399)

I used to admit fault on Internet forums because I was under the impression that being humble and admitting that you're wrong would be seen by other posters with respect. But no - people don't appreciate humility on the Internet because it's far more rewarding to "win" arguments by beating down those who oppose you in some way. You're right - ego does reight supreme, which is why I don't bother posting on forums much anymore and social media.

People simply don't appreciate humility. The internet is full of idiots and dickheads who don't have anything else in life but the Internet. Of course they have an ego.

Re:It's Valve we're speaking about (1)

Karmashock (2415832) | about 4 months ago | (#47210487)

Same here, buddy. I feel your pain... really. And its not like I'm the same every single time. I have moments where I'm a dick and I have moments where I'm an "at one with the universe" "peace with everyone" monk of utter humility and brotherly love.

It depends on how I feel at the moment and the topic being discussed matters. You bring baggage from past discussions into new ones especially if its the same topic that keeps coming up again and again.

If you were buried in assholes the last time you entered a discussion, then the next time you enter the same discussion on the same topic you are pretty much convinced those same assholes are baring down on you almost immediately. So you react a little more aggressively then you might otherwise if only to create an area of denial around yourself so that you can have a chance to fight the bastards back.

Likewise, if a give topic tends to be full of harp music and angelic singing then you're likely going to be a lot less aggressive because there's less perceived threat.

You're also going to react to given sorts of perceived personalities. If some guy comes at you in a topic foaming at the mouth and drooling all over himself you're going to put a rhetorical fire axe through his head. Act like a zombie get treated like a zombie.

Re:It's Valve we're speaking about (1)

Xolvix (3649657) | about 4 months ago | (#47210537)

Oh yeah, we all have our dick moments, agree complete with that. Some people though are clearly out for a fight when you say something that they don't agree with. People have a habit of getting really personal over the most stupid things. People are willing to throw insults over a "best console" argument for goodness sake, as is Microsoft/Sony/generic-multinational-corp really need to be defended in such a manner.

It's a shame really. If I feel like a forum conversation is turning into a flame war I've got an approach where I'll just close the tab and walk away. Don't even continue the conversation - just leave it alone. Some people might see it as me having admitted defeat, but others will clearly see it as a defeat against having to deal with stubborn idiots than an actual defeat with my position.

Internet wars are simply not worth it in the slightly. You probably don't know the person you're getting into a fight with in real life, they're not personally known to you, so who the fuck cares? Will you be really pissed once you're old and grey that you didn't that little shit of a troll in his place years ago? Nope. My blood pressure doesn't need to be raised. :)

Re:It's Valve we're speaking about (1)

Karmashock (2415832) | about 4 months ago | (#47210631)

To each is own on that one... I just try to have fun with it.

If the discussion is populated almost entirely with jackasses then if so inclined I just wade into them worst case I've amused myself. The whole thing will be more about making myself laugh with creative insults or interesting myself by going off on wild rambling tangents that are more a stream of consciousness for my own thought process then anything to do with fools in the thread.

As they say, unhappy is the man that depends upon the pleasure of another. I don't depend on their pleasure. I will get something I want every single time. If they're not offering a stimulating rational discussion then I don't look for one. I create something that amuses and serves me.

Re:It's Valve we're speaking about (1)

Assmasher (456699) | about 4 months ago | (#47211049)

I used to admit fault on Internet forums because I was under the impression that being humble and admitting that you're wrong would be seen by other posters with respect. But no - people don't appreciate humility on the Internet because it's far more rewarding to "win" arguments

They do, they just tend to be quieter than the others. :)

Re:Describe PUSSYING OUT (1)

Blaskowicz (634489) | about 4 months ago | (#47210453)

Repurpose them with FreeDOS of course! In the mean time while waiting for SteamOS, users can play Arkanoid or Wolfenstein 3D, just hope they included a PC speaker or buzzer else the PC will remain silent. BIOS emulation will give you USB mouse support.

Re:Describe PUSSYING OUT (1)

viperidaenz (2515578) | about 4 months ago | (#47209859)

Tax?
It's $100 cheaper than the high spec CyberPower steam machine, the only difference is 4GB RAM instead of 8GB. Similar CPU and GPU.

Re:Describe PUSSYING OUT (1)

NotDrWho (3543773) | about 4 months ago | (#47211175)

If you think the OEM charge for Windows is high, you should try licensing OSX sometime.

Re:Describe PUSSYING OUT (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47210001)

Time to NEVER buy a Steam Machine.

FTFY But, keep living the open sores dream!

Re:Describe PUSSYING OUT (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47210055)

You're a fucking retard, and are misusing the term "Microsoft tax". Those two things, combined with your OH SO COOL Zelda reference name indicate you're about 20 years old and need to kill yourself already.

Re:Describe PUSSYING OUT (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47210263)

Cool, that leaves more for us gamers. I LOVE my Alienware. It's the highest quality laptop one can get.

Re:Describe PUSSYING OUT (2)

Xolvix (3649657) | about 4 months ago | (#47210415)

I do find it amusing the idea of a "gaming laptop". Build quality might be nice if you get something like Alienware, but the expense and lack of proper cooling or expandability kinda makes the whole enterprise seem a bit like selling ice to Eskimos.

Re:Describe PUSSYING OUT (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47210813)

Never used one I see. I have no idea what you're rambling on about with "proper" cooling, but my Alienware laptop has never overheated, nor does it even get very warm even after extended gaming sessions. And $1500 for a 17" laptop with a Geforce 770M isn't exactly expensive.

Expandability is absolutely an option, since the CPU is swappable, the GPU is on a replaceable MXM, it has dual drive bays and will accommodate up to 32GB of RAM. Externally it features a Mini DisplayPort, HDMI (switchable between output or input), four USB 3.0 ports and a multi card reader. That's all of the expansion I will need for a long time.

Re:Describe PUSSYING OUT (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47210847)

Alienware sucks anyway, not a big deal. Overpriced shit for people who can't put color coded computer components together themselves.

Re:Describe PUSSYING OUT (1)

NotDrWho (3543773) | about 4 months ago | (#47211123)

You can't blame Alienware for being lukewarm on an OS which Valve itself seems pretty lukewarm on.

Re:Describe PUSSYING OUT (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47211185)

for the hardware, the $550 list price for the specifications and form factor is not a terrible deal, considering that to build-your-own a windows license would set you back $100... deduct another $50 for the controller, and you're at $400 for a capable i3 system in a small package..... this is, of course, provided that the 'custom' nvidia graphics chip embedded in the system is worth anything.

Valve delivering on Valve-time (4, Insightful)

DrYak (748999) | about 4 months ago | (#47210169)

Common, it's *Valve* we're speaking about.
They WILL deliver. Except that they will deliver on "Valve Time [valvesoftware.com] ".
It will be as usual: wonderful, better than expectation, and *horribly* late.

What were they expecting? Given Valve's track record, they shouldn't have jumped on thing before knowing with certainty that Valve is ready.
They should either.
- start producing steam machine as soon as they can (as they did) but clearly state that these are *prototypes* and probably part of the functionality will be missing.
- or NOT jump on the bandwagon so quickly, and wait until Valve get their shit together (which could be anywhere between now and 2017) and then release a machine with all the features and the specs.

What Alienware did was as stupid as announcing a "special offer with 'Half-Life Episode 3' packaged in for free together with the machine!", and then not knowing what to do as Valve is delayed, packaging some random "Medal of Duty" instead.

Also, SteamOS actually, does work. The problem isn't Linux, the problem are:
- controller (are still tweaked)
- linux games (currently, steam OS works better as a light box to play your game on the living room's big screen/projector by *streaming them* out of a Windows war machine somewhere else in the appartment, rather than playing them directly there. Porting takes time).

Re:Valve delivering on Valve-time (1)

Blaskowicz (634489) | about 4 months ago | (#47210471)

- linux games (currently, steam OS works better as a light box to play your game on the living room's big screen/projector by *streaming them* out of a Windows war machine somewhere else in the appartment, rather than playing them directly there. Porting takes time).

That sucks if you wanted to play games at a desk from your linux machine.
Why not put the Windows machine next to the projector/big screen and stream games to your linux desktop!

Linux didn't made much sense for the consumer anyw (3, Interesting)

aliquis (678370) | about 4 months ago | (#47209333)

Linux didn't made much sense for the consumer anyway.

This must be somewhat disturbing for Valve. Then again I doubt many individuals was asking for a Steam specific OS.

Disturbing because if it all released at the same time then at least they'd have some hype now you'll just have small gaming PCs where you either get Windows and kinda all games or the Steam one which only run a small part of all the titles.

Yay! Which one are you going to pick? ... Oh and the Windows one run the software you're used too as well.

Re:Linux didn't made much sense for the consumer a (2)

TWX (665546) | about 4 months ago | (#47209361)

I expect that it's going to be nearly impossible for Valve/Steam to succeed with the mainstream with this development. Had there been no ready-to-use competitor it'd be one thing, but delaying launch to the point that the ready-made competitor can just come in and save the day pretty much destroys credibility, and once that credibility is lost it usually can't be earned back.

Re:Linux didn't made much sense for the consumer a (1)

meerling (1487879) | about 4 months ago | (#47209399)

Ouch for Valve.
This is gonna hurt.

Re:Linux didn't made much sense for the consumer a (2)

Gadget_Guy (627405) | about 4 months ago | (#47209501)

I expect that it's going to be nearly impossible for Valve/Steam to succeed with the mainstream with this development.

Considering that it is still locking in the Steam service for all games, this is still a win for Valve.

Re:Linux didn't made much sense for the consumer a (1)

aliquis (678370) | about 4 months ago | (#47209793)

IMHO I think and have always thought the reason for Valve doing it in the first place is that they are scared about all the vendor specific stores which is poping up (of which they are one and one of the bigger ones but there could exist an even bigger more obvious choice) - As iTunes store, Google Play, whatever Microsoft calls their / Live.

_If_ Microsoft made a successful game delivery platform / sold all software signed through their own store Valve would have much less left.

If they rolled and had their own OS and people actually used it that would be less of a problem for them.

By now and since the Steam machine reveal GMG have started their own software with a similar purpose as Steams in that it keep track of your friends and let you upgrade your games and such but connected to their store which use all DRM free content. Since I want everything in one place that may not prevent me from using Steam but it's sure a more attractive option from a technical stand point. And as said the reason most of us prefer Steam over say Desura or something such is that it's biggest and (possibly?) have the most content (most popular if nothing else) - It's not something you can take for granted though.

Re:Linux didn't made much sense for the consumer a (1)

sd4f (1891894) | about 4 months ago | (#47209515)

Yea I agree, it's also losing all of its publicity momentum. I do wonder if steamOS will be a success, as I'm not particularly convinced about it.

Re:Linux didn't made much sense for the consumer a (1)

aliquis (678370) | about 4 months ago | (#47209801)

Yea I agree, it's also losing all of its publicity momentum. I do wonder if steamOS will be a success, as I'm not particularly convinced about it.

As a Linux user I have very little interest in it and kinda wished they didn't tried though I can at least see advantages in getting gaming/performance specific patches they want into the system or say binary drivers or such. So small advantages. But I wish/hope other distributions pick them up too and I don't really like this favourism of Ubuntu and Debian developers.

I run Steam in Fedora now and ran it in openSUSE before and I don't want to have to switch to a limited distribution for compatibility reasons or so. I would prefer if Steam ran on all the big ones and if they need a common platform that it simply installed a bunch of packages needed to have all that (or recommended that they was installed.)

Re:Linux didn't made much sense for the consumer a (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47210045)

Have you considered drafting your posts in Microsoft Word? It has a fantastic grammar checking feature that highlights errors with green squiggly lines. There may be enough green in your post to pay for the software in full!

Re:Linux didn't made much sense for the consumer a (1)

aliquis (678370) | about 4 months ago | (#47210123)

No.

But I wouldn't mind if my brain knew how to do it correctly and did so.

Re:Linux didn't made much sense for the consumer a (1)

gstoddart (321705) | about 4 months ago | (#47211249)

Yea I agree, it's also losing all of its publicity momentum

Losing its steam, one might say. ;-)

Re:Linux didn't made much sense for the consumer a (1)

Threni (635302) | about 4 months ago | (#47209901)

That's an amusing comment, given that one of these competitors is Microsoft!

People don't have memories. Nobody cares about Sony's past, or Microsoft's, etc. There's a console out...they want a console...they're going to buy a console from somebody...they're not going to rule out Steam because it was late a few or so ago, are they? I mean...why would they? It doesn't make any sense.

Re:Linux didn't made much sense for the consumer a (1)

Xolvix (3649657) | about 4 months ago | (#47210443)

People don't have memories.

Nah, they do. The issue is that if you blacklist every company which treats its customers like shit or with contempt (particularly tech companies), very soon you'll find yourself unable to buy virtually anything anymore since most things will either be made from or contain major components from said companies. You hate Foxconn and how they treat their employees for example? Congrats! No more consoles for you, no more motherboards for you, no more laptops for you and to some extent no more smartphones for you (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn#Major_customers).

We life in the real world where life is not black and white. I don't need a console or want a console anyway, but I do want to continue using computers and other technology. There are no alternatives to using tech from scummy companies, but you can at times have control over which scummy companies to deal with.

Re:Linux didn't made much sense for the consumer a (3, Insightful)

Sir_Sri (199544) | about 4 months ago | (#47209467)

I bet if microsoft goes all in on the Windows store and locks you into only stuff bought from the windows store then the Steam box would have a much better chance. But it seems almost impossible that MS is going to actually go that route at this point. I could be unpleasantly surprised though, but now that Ballmer is gone that seems unlikely.

As long as you can use Steam for windows... and buy games through steam on Windows Linux gaming is basically for ideological purists, for people who represent the 85% of the market or so that use windows, or the 12% that use Mac Steam works so why change? They'd need a really compelling offering.

Re:Linux didn't made much sense for the consumer a (1)

aliquis (678370) | about 4 months ago | (#47209811)

At least for streaming purposes for compatibility it doesn't matter that it run Linux and it could possibly give a somewhat lower price for the machines (and for streaming purposes they would have less expensive hardware too so any dollar saved make a bigger impact.)

Re:Linux didn't made much sense for the consumer a (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47210073)

blah, blah, blah, ANDROID PROVES THAT YOU ARE WRONG.

Linux vs. Windows doesn't matter if the user never sees it. It's like saying lack of WindowXP held back the PlayStation.

Re:Linux didn't made much sense for the consumer a (2)

aliquis (678370) | about 4 months ago | (#47210129)

No?

The user obviously notice what software they can run.

What make Android successful against the competition? The same thing which make Windows popular. Software compatibility.

Linux doesn't have it when it comes to all the games on Steam.

Re:Linux didn't made much sense for the consumer a (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47210079)

It used to be the case that buying a Windows computer would bring home something you're familiar with that will run all your software.

This is no longer the case. From a consumer perspective, a brand new Windows 8 computer/tablet may or may not run your software and requires learning a completely new, obscure user interface that also happens to be the very worst in the entire history of computing.

So, thanks to Microsoft, there is now high demand for a brand new consumer OS, providing it complies with several requirements (it is easy to use, and runs many or even most of the high profile apps and games). Unfortunately, the time window is slipping. Sooner or later Microsoft will release a Windows 9 that gets rid of the Metro nonsense and we'll be back to square one.

Re:Linux didn't made much sense for the consumer a (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47210701)

Yay! Which one are you going to pick?

The one with better advertising, if console gamers are any indication.

Re:Linux didn't made much sense for the consumer a (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47210883)

What nonsense. Game engines can target Linux runtimes now, this issue is down to Valve trying to reinvent the controller rather than simply supporting existing controllers. Valve fucked up, that's all there is to it.

Re:Linux didn't made much sense for the consumer a (1)

zippthorne (748122) | about 4 months ago | (#47210933)

Yeah, the support for windows games really needed to be better than, "and you can stream them from a windows machine that you also own"

Re:Linux didn't made much sense for the consumer a (1)

jellomizer (103300) | about 4 months ago | (#47211039)

Linux and Unix is a Mainframe OS.
Unix then Linux which is based of the Unix design. Is from the old Mainframe days. Where it was used for multiple terminals connected a single Mainframe or server, where people did their work.

Linux came out when the standard PC got to 32bits (80386 era) and was powerful enough to support the workload of many of the lower/mid range mainframes. Originally so people could access and tinker with a Unix Like OS without having to spend big bucks to try it out, or get access to a place where you have limited access, or a place where you can create code for the Unix systems yourself. Now as the PC got more powerful the PC hardware based server became more popular. So Linux came to be the Server OS which is a natural use for the OS.

Then we have the Desktop user community, in general the Microsoft Haters, now they had a lot of legitimates gripes against Microsoft, so they tried to convert Linux into a desktop based OS, with some limited success however. Apple jumped on the bandwagon and Made OS X off of the Unix design. (Microsoft followed suit and made XP off of their NT (Server OS) kernel). So now all modern desktops are running off of Server OS's. Apple and Microsoft actually did a better job at making a Desktop OS, The Linux distributors did do a good job but just never fully caught mainstream for the desktop, Linux had a few starts, such as in Netbooks that lasted until the tablets and smartphones became popular. However Linux for the Desktop never made it big enough for other vendors to fully invest in Linux, thus creating crappy drivers that made games run poorly, or with too many glitches that they never caught on. Combined with a Radical GNU culture, which penalized game companies for not being Open Source, or the Hardware Makers keeping their secrets, so they tended to avoid that market as to not get all the rabid flame wars about being Open Enough for Linux.

Today Linux has made a good market in Mobile Devices via Android. But Google used the Linux Kernel but it isn't GNU/Linux. The same with Apple iOS is uses the Unix kernel but not OS X. But in many ways I am wondering why we are still using a server OS, for a mobile device?
Can we make it work? Sure no problem, but is it the best solution? Probably not.

PC Games have been Windows Based for generations. Is windows the best for games probably not, but because that is where the games are that is the OS people are going to get. Linux based Steam means you can only play Steam games. However not all games are available on Steam. and you have a better chance of getting new other games off of Windows then you would with any other OS.

Re:Linux didn't made much sense for the consumer a (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47211147)

I'm surprised Valve don't strike a deal with Apple as iMacs undoubtly have more marketshare among consumers than Linux.

Re:Linux didn't made much sense for the consumer a (1)

NotDrWho (3543773) | about 4 months ago | (#47211215)

A lot of people were speculating that the whole SteamOS thing was just a stunt by Valve to discourage MS from launching their own service to compete with Steam on Windows (an implicit threat that they would launch a competitor to Windows for gaming). And it does seem like Valve are pretty lukewarm on SteamOS themselves, a pretty strange position for a company that's supposedly serious about making such a bold move.

So they take premium hardware (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47209367)

So they take premium hardware, run it on a second rate OS, and hope flowers will bloom out of the pile of manure? Those who would argue about whether Linux is not the best OS to run on premium hardware, needs to go over to TOP500.org, and look at the overwhelming majority of supercomputers that run Linux. 96.4% of the machines, 97.9% of the combined performance of the whole list. So now we get Alienware. What the hell were they thinking? Some half-cooked noob who wouldn't know a logic gate from a hole in the ground just wants what the store chucks at him? "Oh, I don't want to know that much, I just game and stuff: don't really *know* anything about 'puters." And so you get what you get.

Re:So they take premium hardware (1)

Jmc23 (2353706) | about 4 months ago | (#47209431)

You're an idiot who can't see past his own agenda.

'Premium' hardware is a constantly moving target. Every second it's not on the market it's depreciating.

Re:So they take premium hardware (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47209513)

Those who would argue about whether Linux is not the best OS to run on premium hardware, needs to go over to TOP500.org, and look at the overwhelming majority of supercomputers that run Linux.

So according to that list which operating system (remembering "Linux" is just the kernel, you can't just run Linux) should we use for gaming PCs?

Because how many of them run SteamOS? None. How many of them run the same commodity hardware as Steam boxes? None. How many of them are gaming machines? None. Not sure where you get the idea that just because a super computer runs the Linux kernel that automatically means that gaming machines should too, in fact throughout history dedicated gaming consoles have steered clear of the Linux kernel. If it's so good then they wouldn't need to be making changes to it so wouldn't even have to worry about the GPL yet they *still* steered clear of it. I'm not saying it's bad (on the contrary the Linux kernel is very very good) but it isn't the silver bullet for everything that you seem to think it is.

Re: So they take premium hardware (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47209637)

Well Playstation 3 runs a Unix variant, which has a lot of the same aspects of Linux. I think the only benefit they gain from using Unix is more control over the Kernel itself. But I see no real reason Linux wouldn't make a good OS for gaming. And I think the OP was trying to show that with proper platform integration a Linux box should be able to utilize the hardware more efficiently. Improvements to OpenGL and optimizing the OS for the hardware would logically offer a lot of competition for the Windows based gaming. So with the high level of potential, Linux can be a silver bullet to a lot of problems. It just takes enough will (money) and skill (money) to make it happen.

What about compatibilty (1)

Blaskowicz (634489) | about 4 months ago | (#47210499)

If your games only run for a few years and then the new distro can't run them then it really sucks. I've been wondering if something like RHEL, Solaris or FreeBSD would be a better gaming OS than your typical distro. (Of course the latter ones would have bad hardware support, such as just nvidia for graphics, Intel and Realtek for sound and network, and get lost if you have anything else)

Re:So they take premium hardware (1)

Gadget_Guy (627405) | about 4 months ago | (#47209549)

So they take premium hardware, run it on a second rate OS, and hope flowers will bloom out of the pile of manure? Those who would argue about whether Linux is not the best OS to run on premium hardware, needs to go over to TOP500.org, and look at the overwhelming majority of supercomputers that run Linux.

And how many games run on those supercomputers? Those who would argue about whether Linux is the best OS to run games need to go over to Steam's Hardware & Software Survey [steampowered.com] , and look at the underwhelming minority of gaming computers that run Linux.

Linux games on Steam recently reached the 500 mark, which I think is excellent and highly encouraging for the platform. But your argument that Windows is a second rate OS for gaming is still laughable and demonstrably wrong.

Re:So they take premium hardware (1)

blackest_k (761565) | about 4 months ago | (#47209935)

What would be interesting to see is the difference in performance between the two operating systems running the same games on identical hardware.

If there is a performance advantage to steamos then gamers will use it. Smart gamers will dualboot if there are games they want to play that are not available for one os but are for the other.

Re:So they take premium hardware (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47211279)

Linux games on Steam recently reached the 500 mark

500 x 0 = 0

So they take premium hardware (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47209787)

Right. Most of those computers wouldn't run the latest games. So screw linux, I want the systems my games work on. And no, I don't need a supercomputer to do that, a decent graphics card, fast enough processor and some modest amount of memory is all that I need.

Supercomputers have nothing to do with personal computers. It's like comparing cars to nuclear reactors.

There's a shock move... (2)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | about 4 months ago | (#47209377)

Obviously Valve would have preferred to have everything ready for launch earlier rather than later; but does anybody expect for a moment that "Well, the proposal is just to build a PC that's good enough for gaming and looks OK in the living room, we commit essentially nothing to the OS until the HDDs actually get imaged and installed" was a part of the calculation for OEMs from the beginning?

Getting the controller right is, for Valve, a big deal; because just cloning the xbox controller won't do much for PC oriented titles; but keyboard/mouse combos are not exactly good couch company (also some bad history there... [wikipedia.org] ), so they need something clever.

For the OEMs, the bet is markedly smaller. It's not as though you can easily buy linux-only hardware, and 'quiet', 'small and unobtrusive', and 'reasonably powerful' are virtues you can sell under any OS.

Re:There's a shock move... (1)

aliquis (678370) | about 4 months ago | (#47209835)

I'm far from convinced the Steam controller is a better controller than the Xbox One controller.

And so is likely Valve and the people who have tried it out and hence the delay.

Sure it will be able to emulate a keyboard and mouse but on the other hand some titles already have a controller support and the controller they support is (among others?) the Xbox 360 controller.

The awesome part about those controllers is that they have the analouge sticks which I think may be ergonomically better.

The Xbox One controller also have a "NES styled" cross which will be nice to have and the Valve one have neither kind of somewhat more "physical feedback" controller.

frost piSt (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47209389)

Good Luck Gamepad Users (1)

TubeSteak (669689) | about 4 months ago | (#47209413)

Us keyboard and mouse jockeys will enjoy spanking you in multiplayer twitch games.

Re:Good Luck Gamepad Users (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47209561)

Sorry, bro, but I enjoy being spanked.

Re:Good Luck Gamepad Users (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47209915)

You too seem to be a perfect match. Have a good time spanking and being spanked!

Re:Good Luck Gamepad Users (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47209809)

Us keyboard and mouse jockeys will enjoy spanking you in multiplayer twitch games.

+1
I lol'd at this.

Re:Good Luck Gamepad Users (1)

aliquis (678370) | about 4 months ago | (#47209857)

You saw it here first (patent fuckers! ;D)

I think the keyboard should be replaced by an analogue controller, keyboards both have the traveling distance before they engage and disengage and they are simply on or off.

For instance in a game which use stealth as a mechanic IMHO it would be much better with exact controll about both when and how much you are doing something, say walking forward and strafing slowly behind a couch to get into just the right position vs running full speed ahead or standing still ...

The mouse is decent for aiming though. But the keyboard is far from optimal.

Re:Good Luck Gamepad Users (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47211347)

I play most of my PC games with a controller, and I regularly kick their shit out of arrogant pricks like you who think that their ancient k/m scheme somehow makes their shit smell like flowers. You would be surprised at what someone can do with a good controller and custom controller setup, as long as they don't buy into the smug dipshit groupthink that the k/m is so fucking superior.

I even considered naming my multiplayer characters with names like "Just Killed You With a Gamepad" just to embarrass gamers like you. But I'm afraid it would cause a rash of butthurt suicides. And that wouldn't be fair to all the mothers who would have to clean up the blood from their basements.

As expected (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47209423)

This was pretty much as expected.

All of Valve's marketing of the steam boxes focuses on Steam as a brand, and for the average player the expectation for that is playing all the latest games and big franchises. However, under a Linux-based SteamOS, you are limited to indie games and a very occasional AAA release by Valve or some more-or-less independent studio they convinced. That means no Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, GTA, etc.

Even worse, the narrative and marketing has been intentionally misleading, with both Valve and hardware makers focusing on the 'hundreds' of games available, waving away the big question: when, if ever, are we going to see SteamOS versions of the big-name releases. With things as are now, you'd likely see a big number of consumers (the ones who don't even know what an OS is) buying a SteamOS box with very, very false expectations.

Re:As expected (1)

aliquis (678370) | about 4 months ago | (#47209867)

The Valve titles are very popular on Steam's platform and some of the large AAA titles are ported to Linux and I suspect the idea was that even more of future AAA titles would run on Linux.

(I think Civilization V was supposed to? If nothing else the new space one? X-COM: Enemy unknown will get a Linux version, Metro Last Light have one, Serious Sam 4 will have and 3: BFE have, FIFA have or will have (I don't care) and so on.)

Re:As expected (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47210041)

DOTA 2 is the only high profile title with a Linux version that I know of. X-COM and Metro are good games, but very far from being top franchises. Serious Sam is even more obscure, and EA has no plans to develop Linux ports of their games. Keep in mind there is no "so on and so on", that is all there is.

DOTA 2 is great, and a big Valve announcement (Half-Life, Left 4 Dead) would be even better. But that is not enough to move a platform.

Re:As expected (1)

Zitchas (713512) | about 4 months ago | (#47210815)

FYI: As of yesterday, Civ V now runs on SteamOS. Supposedly all the DLC is supposed to too, but they're still working on that. And it is one of the play-anywhere type games, so if you own a copy, you can play on windows, mac, or Linux, no need to buy a new copy for the other OS. I'll be getting my dual boot running today to try it out.

Civ: Beyond Earth has been officially "Win, Mac, and SteamOS" for a while now. I'm guessing it and Civ V use the same base underlying engine, or at least close enough to make using code form one in the other easy enough, so they're using Civ V in SteamOS to test their code for the Beyond Earth release. (I know the preview footage from E3 yesterday that some aspects of Beyond Earth look like a reskinned Civ5, particularly the map, combat, city, and diplomacy screens. So I'm expecting it to feel like an expansion that adds a whole bunch of stuff combined with a TC (Total Conversion) that replaces all the existing content)

Overpriced (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47209673)

Wow, $550. For a base unit with a Core i3?!

Tell me they're not really trying because there's no way that sort of price point with that sort of hardware, who would buy a Steam box?

I mean, we complained about the PS3 and Xbox360 holding back games and graphics for years, and now you're putting out something costs more than an Xbone (with kinect!), and either will not last as long (requires upgrades) or has the potential to cripple PC gaming even more because this wimpy box will have to be usable for the next 5 years?

Tell me again what the benefit for the consumer is again? They're paying more for a "console PC" than the Xbone, which will likely need life extensions (upgrades) over its lifetime. Or they will have to shell out piles of money upfront for a more powerful box?

A PS4 or Xbone, with PS+ or Xbox Live may prove a cheaper way to game in the end... and this is supposed to be the future of PC gaming?

Re:Overpriced (1)

viperidaenz (2515578) | about 4 months ago | (#47209861)

Buy the CyberPower one then. $500 for an AMD A6 or $650... for an i3.

Dell probably had hardware production started (2)

euanc (1546699) | about 4 months ago | (#47209691)

Dell probably had already started the hardware production process. They likely had a choice to either do this or waste or the work (and possibly hardware) that they had already put into i (or built). Seems (to me) like the most obvious reason for this.

Valve has no one to blame but themselves (1)

Stormwatch (703920) | about 4 months ago | (#47209831)

Valve just didn't deliver. I wanted to give SteamOS a try, but they don't even provide a disk image. Instead, it's a zipped folder with files to be copied to an USB drive. I still couldn't figure a way to make it an iso or something that VirtualBox will accept. Other than that, just reading the installation page, the whole thing still seems to be very crude. I thought it'd be interesting to see a major game developer pushing for Linux, but if I were to use Linux, why would I go with SteamOS instead of any of the several good distros that are already out there?

Re:Valve has no one to blame but themselves (1)

jones_supa (887896) | about 4 months ago | (#47210355)

SteamOS is still in beta, so there is expected to be rough edges. I suppose that when they release proper 1.0, the installation will be simple.

Re:Valve has no one to blame but themselves (2)

CheezburgerBrown . (3417019) | about 4 months ago | (#47211011)

Do you have the same hopes for Slashdot Beta?

Better luck next year (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47209837)

Give it up, freetards. Linux will never happen, not even with proprietary support.

I guess... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47209951)

Apparently the hardware manufacturers have never heard of valvetime.

This actally makes it an intersting product. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47209975)

Say what you like, windows 8.1 is actually a pretty good OS by itself and probably a better choice in the long run anyway.
With Windows on it, this little machine can fulfill most of my needs for the living room / home and offers me a platform that i am already familiar with to play my games, (Steam supported not), get some work done (Office etc) and watch movies. I'm pretty sure it is also capable enough for some photoshop too.
Similar offers/formats are available from Intel, msi etc, bu this one seems to be the more powerful.
Basically, even with a "premium MS Tax" (whatever that is) it is now a more "allround capable" machine, which can easily replace my old dusty HTPC and make my aging workstation redundant.

Re:This actally makes it an intersting product. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47210513)

Win8.1 is a slightly smaller pile of shit than Win8, but it's still a pretty big pile. Fuck they finally made something so fucking retarded they made me to buy a Mac. Way to go MS.

Trolling liar on line 1 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47210887)

Yeah, I know, it's /.

Re:This actally makes it an intersting product. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47211085)

Win8.1 is a slightly smaller pile of shit than Win8, but it's still a pretty big pile. Fuck they finally made something so fucking retarded they made me to buy a Mac. Way to go MS.

I don't like Metro on a non-tablet PC, but properly set up I hardly see it. I spend 99% of my time in a regular Windows desktop that has a number of improvements over Windows 7. So despite the annoyance of knowing the Metro is there and might show itself now and then, 99% of my PC time I have an improved OS over Win7 and would never go back.

Re:This actally makes it an intersting product. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47211053)

Say what you like, windows 8.1 is actually a pretty good OS by itself and probably a better choice in the long run anyway. With Windows on it, this little machine can fulfill most of my needs for the living room / home and offers me a platform that i am already familiar with to play my games, (Steam supported not), get some work done (Office etc) and watch movies. I'm pretty sure it is also capable enough for some photoshop too. Similar offers/formats are available from Intel, msi etc, bu this one seems to be the more powerful. Basically, even with a "premium MS Tax" (whatever that is) it is now a more "allround capable" machine, which can easily replace my old dusty HTPC and make my aging workstation redundant.

This "premium MS Tax" line is quite interesting, and not as easy a calculation as you might imagine. Dell offered Linux as an option on a number of boxes (more prominently a few years back than now). When asked why they weren't cheaper than similar models with Windows, they replied that they were actually at least as expensive for them in terms of cost even without the "MS Tax". The average cost of a single customer care call to Dell was more than what they paid Microsoft for OEM Windows license. And the number of calls on the Linux machines were much higher (driver/software/hardware/setup/user error issues).

Makes a lot of sense (1)

Xolvix (3649657) | about 4 months ago | (#47210477)

When it comes to the games available on the Steam library, Windows plays everything and Linux plays a fraction. I know that things will get better for newer games, but for existing titles and particularly older games it's going to be an extremely small minority which get ported to Linux. People (gamers particularly) don't give a shit about the "holy war" between Microsoft/Windows and Linux - what is obvious is that Windows will run everything they want, with 100% support from developers and manufacturers of their hardware. Linux will not - it doesn't matter the reasons why, all that matters is that this is the state of things now and will remain so for a while. I mean, why else do people use computers in the first place? To define themselves via their choice of operating system, or to actually run the applications/games they want to run?

SteamOS via Linux has to provide some credible benefits to the user. Unless Valve develops something exclusive for SteamOS that you can't get on regular Windows Steam, then there is nothing that benefits the USER as opposed to Valve's benefit of not relying on Windows or buying Windows licenses for each SteamOS console.

Use linux to get less freedom? (1)

Blaskowicz (634489) | about 4 months ago | (#47210627)

The most tragic thing in all of this is the whole concept of getting linux games from a single source, with DRM. No self-published games, no other non Steam publishers, no freeware, no shareware : that's all for Windows, with few exceptions. Maybe they'll be other stores eventually (like GOG) but for now, you rely on Steam to reliably run native games under linux (if you have suitable graphics hardware and drivers).

Well, at least I can play Counterstrike 1.6 on linux. That's all I use it for - it's reliable, uses OpenGL 1.x, I can alt-tab from it to lower the global sound volume and it's good. I waited like 7 years to play that game, lol. (I used to play the 1.5 non Steam version even when it was supposedly impossible to play anymore)
I'm not buying games anymore : I never know when Valve has "sales" anyway and filling the "library" with weird low quality games bought at 3 euros a piece just to try them out is boring. Importantly, I have no clear idea what benefit I would get from upgrading hardware in order to play more demanding games.. if there are like a grand total of ten of them?

The real test of "Steam Box" openness... (1)

itsdapead (734413) | about 4 months ago | (#47210777)

Less freedom than what? An XBox, Playstation or Wii with locked-down hardware, that probably aren't ever going to support alternative software or game stores without jailbreaking? And good luck building a homebrew XBox or Playstation using your choice of components.

Steam seems to be the least worst of the game platforms.

The real test of a SteamBox is whether you can quit Steam, access the underlying OS and install other software. AFAIK that is eminently possible under SteamOS - whether Steam Boxes will be locked down is unknown (it would be a mistake).

It would be nice if that underlying OS was Linux, but it sounds as if Valve has dropped the ball. It's OK taking forever to create the next version of Half Life - but if you're relying on third party hardware manufacturers you need to stick to schedule.

Re:Use linux to get less freedom? (1)

Psyborgue (699890) | about 4 months ago | (#47210871)

As far as I understand, Valve says you can install from other sources. Also, not all Steam games have DRM. Quite a few actually don't have any protection at all [wikia.com] . Steam is primarily a distribution service. It's the game developers who demand the DRM.

high end steam machines will probably be windows (1)

Daniel Hoffmann (2902427) | about 4 months ago | (#47211197)

Really, the only reason (for now) to have steam machines using Linux for the OEMs is to reduce the price. So the high-end steam machines are probably going to come with windows anyway. At least for now the low-end is where the Linux will be and it will stay there until more games (especially the more demanding, tripple-A games) support Linux.

In other news, anyone knows if these alienware machines are coming with steam and boot straight into big picture? The default settings is pretty important you know.

If this were really about pleasing the customer (1)

voss (52565) | about 4 months ago | (#47211323)

They would have shipped it with windows 7 pro and win 8 pro COA.

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