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Highly kewl- now what about the PS2's OS? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1983295)

I'm hoping we aren't talking cross-compliling, but that the reason linux is a good dev platform is that it (or a stripped down vs.) is the OS embedded in these things.
I haven't done much dev for non-pc(pc meaning desktop machine) - just my ti-85 in z80 assembler back in HS.
Someone who is familiar: tell me- what are the chances? Will we be getting linux versions of most of the playstation stuff (assuming our hardware can handle it)
Also- people have been dreaming about beowulfing ps2s - its a pipe dream right- I mean that would be too cool to be possible!

No DirectX? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1983296)

Moola!

ftp://ftp.ggi-project.org/pub/ggi/ggi-snapshots/ ggi-devel-990312.tar.gz

http://www.de.ggi-project.org/snapshot.html

No DirectX? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1983297)

wow. Time to port now.

N64 devkits started SGI only... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1983298)

... then they dropped that exclusivity in favor of allowing in Windows-based development.

Unix-only development environments for consoles have been done before. They're never lasted, and the makers have always made sure Windows was supported.

I was at a Playstation (original) developer's conference in Los Angeles, '97, and they asked the audience of about 200 how many people would want a linux-based PSX development environment. No more than 4 people raised their hands.

It'll be a nice change to push Linux, but I really don't think it'll last.

Maybe Linux just an easy port? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1983299)

>Was there ever a Windows development package for the PlayStation?

Yes. Started out DOS-based, but there was a full IDE for Windows years ago.

hmm.... can you say emulation??? DUH (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1983300)

it's going to be used for DEVELOPMENT, not the core OS of the final product.

Guess again (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1983301)

Just because the kernel is GPL, that doesn't mean that any programs you write to run on Linux have to be Open Source/GPL-ed. All it means is that they can see how the kernel works. Which is a lot better than what you get from MS or Apple.

N64 devkits started SGI only... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1983302)

What a difference 2 years makes in the computing industry. Have them ask that same question now with all the new popularity of Linux. I recently ran into a brick wall trying to get my recommendation of using Linux as our database server. It was promptly shot down by FUD missles. That was about 5 months ago, now with all the press Linux has gotten and all the problems we have experienced with our brand new NT boxes my boss has started asking me what we can do to rescue his precious database server from the evil grip of the crash monster. :)
It's good to be the king.

The wonderful thing about Micro$oft is... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1983303)

Good point. A similar thing happened in the fast food business when Pepsi bought Taco Bell, Pizza Hut, etc. Coke convinced all of the other restaurants to switch to Coke because buying Pepsi was supporting their competition.

Pepsi eventually sold off the fast food businesses.

What more is there? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1983304)

It's already long done.

www.dgmicro.com/mca/

dave

Cheap linux workstation with PS2-derived heart... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1983305)

Hello,

I know this is not the topic of this discussion but I thought, since the PS2 seems to use such a superb processor, and it would be very affordable, then maybe it could be interesting for Sony to create a cheap Linux workstation using the PS2 processor or a derived version...
Well, what do you think?

Highly kewl- now what about the PS2's OS? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1983306)

why wouldnt beos be a dev platform if that were the case?

But who enforces this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1983307)

If Sony (or anyone else) decided to violate the GPL, who is going to enforce it?

But who enforces this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1983308)

The people who wrote the software will sue for copyright violation.

PSX2 devkits will be platform independant (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1983309)

Ok, this is the deal.

Essentially Sony is just going away from being tied to any platform at all. They'll leave the choice to the developers. The final devkits will be used remotely, so you can use win9x/nt/linux/sgi/whatever the hell you want, as long as you have a network connection.

The system you connect to, the developer playstation 2, will be a PC running Linux with the PSX 2 hardware attached to it. Lots of developers might not even notice that Linux is even there, if Sony does it properly.

And yes, this is a good thing, because pushing thousands of game developers into an environment that doesn't run the software they are used to is bad for productivity.

N64 devkits started SGI only... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1983310)

This is true, but now they use gcc under a proprietary dos extender.

If you want to recompile the gcc you need to do the compile under Linux (the dos extender uses a.out). :)

BTW, a complete tool chain is available for development of N64 apps under Linux (but still uses NDA'd libs). No debugger though (typically you use a cart emulator like ones from www.bung.com.hk).

Take it easy.

Sony hunting Bill ??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1983311)

"Last week's specs were a shot across
Sega's bow. This week Sony's hunting the world's
most dangerous game: Bill Gates."
The anonymous moron that wrote this piece of dirt
got it backwards, didn't he.

Linux? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1983312)

What is Linux? What do Penguins have to do with it?

Is this a cult thing?

Good Move. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1983313)

By staying away from M$oft Sony is also making
sure that M$oft will not attempt to take over the entertainment arena.

Sega is a step closer to free fall ( When M$oft starts games for WIN CE ).

Or maybe not... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1983314)

Sure, so the developers can get the source.

The developers _could_ then distribute the binaries to whomever they wished, possibly making it publicly available.

However, Sony could probably refuse to authorize any games made by developers who do distribute the development binaries/source. Unlike the PC industry, all games published for the platform must be authorized by Sony (or Nintendo, Sega, etc).

Good Thing (for Sega and Nintendo) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1983315)

This will help level the playing field, as developers will migrate to platforms where they can develope in windows. Developers aren't the kind of people who will change OS willingly, no matter what OS they use.

It makes Perfect Sense... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1983316)

Simply because the Dreamcast runs Windows CE. "My enemy's friend is also my enemy!".

-kabloie

Apple IIGS is the future! (flawed logic) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1983317)

the development platform for console development i think has little to no bearing on the mainstream value of the platform.

Super Nintendo (a pretty hot seller in it's day) ran it's development stations on Apple IIGS's, despite the astronomically spectacular Apple IIGS sales (drpping with sarcasm), i don't feel that being a development platform for a console had anything to do with it.

hmm.... can you say emulation??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1983318)

I think that a lot of people are not understanding Sonys' (unofficial?), statement. Sony said that they would use Linux (and SGI hoorah), as their development platform. This does not mean :

a) that Sony would re-write Linux.
b) that PS2 games are written to run on linux.
c) that the development enviroment is going to be GPLed.

The fact is that Sonys' regular playstation already has a development enviroment for Linux called the NetYarose (sp?). It uses GCC and some Sony specific libs.

In conclusion, this is my idea of the possibly release. Regular Linux kernel (GPL), GCC(GPL), PS2 libs (copyright Sony binary only) and a PCI card (or parellel interface)to the development version of the PS2. You write your game in GCC using the PS2 libs, compile and test your code on the development PS2 via the PCI (or parellel), interface.

thats all I got,

Dan Benitez

Significance overstated? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1983319)

Don't underestimate the effect of few thousand Linux addicted game developers. Maybe, just maybe they will port their games to Linux also (one can always hope :-). It's still cool that Sony chose SGI and Linux over Windows though.

Or maybe not... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1983320)

Sony can't legally prevent anyone from publishing unauthorized games, as long as the author of the game doesn't use proprietary Sony technology in the game.

Don't concern youself, dear windoze user... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1983321)

Never mind the questions little one. Just keep ignoring Linux and you won't have to think for yourself. Bill will think for you. We Linux users must struggle with the burdon of free will and independance, but you can feel safe knowning that Bill will make all of your decisions for you. In fact, it's better that you not try and thus not hurt yourself. Bill will keep you in blissfull ignorance....

Linux:
"It is not the droid you're looking for."
"You will take it to your hard drive now."

Unix OS of the future? HAHAH (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1983322)

nuff said. Be or Amiga has that title.

The Ultimate Waste of Time (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1983323)

That can't be the reason, because Linux has MUD clients. ;-)

Unix OS of the future? HAHAH (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1983324)

I agree. Some of you Linux users have this pathetic devotion. I struggle along using Linux when I could do 10x as much work in Windows (even with crashes) in the same ammount of time because I wouldn't have to spend all my time compiling programs, and I could do 100x as much work in BeOS because it is so damned fast and efficient. Get over it, ppl. Unix is a dinosaur. BeOS is the true OS of the future.

Here's a real programmer for ya (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1983325)

Please dont insult dusty Ramblers. Columbo drove one.

PS2 == Amiga II ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1983326)

could be...
GW/Amiga working on "magic" new QNX/Neutrino based environment, running on an as yet sunspecified CPU, with an unspecified "consumer electronics" company as partner. Linux is sufficiently similar to QNX to be used as a development platform (both POSIX), while QNX/Neutrino would be great as a games console / internet appliance OS.

Unix OS of the future? HAHAH (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1983327)

Sorry, BeOs can't be the OS of the future because in the future the OS will be a commodity i.e. free. The era of commercial OSes is over...

And get your head out of JLG's ass will ya :)

PS2 == Amiga II ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1983328)

Dream on...

PS/2's run OS/2 -- DURH! Read BYTE whydoncha (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1983329)

As even the most novice imbecile can tell you, the new IBM PS/2's run the newest in "Disk Operating Systems" -- OS/2!!!! They'll also be sporting MIRCOCHANNEL, soon to be the NEW STANDARD in personal computers!!!!! 8-)!!!!!!!! Also, they leave open a slot for a MO/DEM, so that you can access a BBS!!!! OS/2 can even support FIDONET and INTER-NET, and can CGA graphics like the dickens!!!!!! So soon you'll be reading PHRACK in the privacy of your own home!!!!!! And now I must go to huff model airplane glue and watch "L.A. Law." SURFS UP DOOOOOOOOODE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Scott McNealy just as baaaaaaaad.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1983330)

[Dear god, I'm drinking scotch and slashdotting at nine on a friday night. Truly I am lame.]

Anyhoo, if you listen to M$ interviews, they always say stuff like, "at any time, some joe schmoe company could come along and eat us up. So we HAVE to be paranoid." This position is easy to analyze -- shit, they took down IBM, the big mama monopoly of the 80's. NOBODY could take down IBM, it was IMPOSSIBLE. But IBM got lazy, didn't succeed in monopolizing the PC OS market, and BAM! M$ took over. That's why M$ is so damn paranoid, and thus so damn anal. They saw the shit that went down with IBM.

So now M$ is the big white whale, and we see Scott McKneely on 60 Minutes. And he says shit like, "We'll do whatever we can to bring down the microsoft monopoly. We have to do whatever it takes." THAT'S THE SAME LINE OF THINKING THAT MICROSOFT OPERATES ON! MICROSOFT IS ALWAYS PARANOID, SO IS SUN! All proprietary OS vendors would fuck over the users to make money given the chance. Don't trust either -- go with opensourced stuff. Property creates greed, greed causes people to fuck you over. Don't fall into the trap!

Inefficient OS? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1983331)

It's worth pointing out that having a common set of "wrappers" that would allow programs to communicate with the hardware would make game development easier. It would allow Game Developers to focus on the games, rather than the hardware....

...but then again, I've never written non x86 code.

Joe - soon to be known as Jwabbit (when the mail server starts working)

Uh, no. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1983332)

My ps/2 runs linux.

touche (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1983333)

:P

Great (1)

CLorox (7) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983342)

Wonder if this means we see some playstation emus for linux by sony :)

Inefficient OS? (1)

Patrik Nordebo (170) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983343)

A TCP/IP stack might actually be useful in a games console, coupled with a network interface, or a modem. Internet multiplayer games on a games console. Of course you could skip it for games that don't need it, but it would be good to have it available.

Unix OS of the future? HAHAH (1)

Patrik Nordebo (170) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983344)

Why not use a distribution, or downloading precompiled apps? It's not as if Windows apps don't need to be compiled, you just can't get source. And if you believe you're 100 times as efficient in BeOS as in Linux (assuming the apps you use are available for Linux), you are just plain stupid.
And I doubt BeOS is the OS of the future, seeing as not even Be are trying to position it in that way. For myself, if the OS is not free, I'm not particularly interested.

Here's a real programmer for ya (1)

davie (191) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983345)

"...pain...to set up."

Hmm..that's funny. I just got a new box, installed RH 5.2 and had everything (built RIVA TNT X server, WM, etc., built cust. kernel) up and running in less than 24 hours, and this only during free time between projects. By this time tomorrow, I should have egcs 1.1.x, glibc 2.x, kernel 2.2.3, etc. built and installed. Granted, I've got a little (a year) experience with Linux, but it's not that difficult if you do your homework.

I know I'm preaching to the choir, but geez, this guy's clueless. More difficult to set up? Naw, he just knows the Windows install proggie real well because he has to re-install Windows about once a month.

It's Like Dejavu All Over Again (0)

Jordy (440) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983346)

PSX2 development on... Linux! by HeUnique on Wednesday March 3rd 99@10:39 96

I have a dream! One day, the user will be forced to search through old articles before posting.

--

You mean copy*left* violation... (1)

torpor (458) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983347)

Which will be an interesting court case to watch ...

Linux == Tron (2)

torpor (458) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983348)

Read this report about what The TRON Project [arizona.edu] is in Japan, and do some more searching around for information about the TRON project in the Japanese consumer electronics industry, and then have a good deep thought about what Linux is...

And it will all start to make more sense. No, it's not some 80's movie rip-off ... though one has to wonder how TRON the Movie came about in parallel with the initial idea's about TRON the Project, and if there was any connection ever made.

Sakamura started something big in the Japanese consumer electronics industry during the 80's, that not a lot of Western technologists are really aware of... anyone that's worked on any Japanese consumer electronics RT/Embedded systems will at least have had *some* exposure to the Tron project, since a lot of Japanese electronics companies share development resources as part of the Tron initiative.

I've done a fair bit of work for Japanese companies in the embedded systems area, and recently had the odd deja-vu like experience of having access to the source code for two completely disrelated embedded systems projects, and witnessed the *same code* in each... even though these companies have *nothing* to do with each other, market-wise.

So it makes sense to me that one of the biggest Japanese consumer electronics companies is picking up on the shared developer resources concept that Linux and the OSS movement represent.

This could and should be a wakeup call for American (and other) industries that might still be competing against the Japanese consumer electronics giants...

Inefficient OS? (1)

jandrese (485) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983349)

I think that was a reference too all general Operating systems. Sony is saying that they will use some custom loader with a few extensions rather than a full blown OS in the PSX-II, which is exactly how consoles are built today. Linux will be used for DEVELOPMENT, but not for execution. Besides, why would you need PCI/IDE/SCSI/Serial Port/telnet/csh/etc... support in a Playstation anyway?

Yeah, right (1)

jbrw (520) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983350)

Sony endorsing Linux as the development platform is hardly going to cause Linux to go mainstream.

Hmph.

...j

hmm.... can you say emulation??? (1)

gavinhall (33) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983351)

Posted by tid242:

now here's a very interesting thought, sony uses linux as the OS for their new game system which would mean that they would have to make their modified source available for all us geek-types to see, and being that the linux community seems to have plenty of time on its hands i'm sure in a matter of days there will be an emulation proggie to run ps2 games on the comp. not that this isn't already being done for regular PS games, but it would probably be much, much faster on a more native system. anyway i wonder how much m$ would want for sony's rights to use winblows for their game system anyway...

anyway i just find the idea of an open source OS on a system, which by industry standards, tends to be the most closed-type of software around rather interesting.

}8^)-~

Highly kewl- now what about the PS2's OS? (1)

gavinhall (33) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983352)

Posted by DonR:

I've heard many rumours that BeOS will be imbedded in the PSX2 as its Operating system.
---
Donald Roeber

Highly kewl- now what about the PS2's OS? (1)

gavinhall (33) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983353)

Posted by DonR:

Perhaps because the development tools are up to snuff yet? Besides many Linux applications are easily ported to Be. Only time will tell.

---
Donald Roeber

Good news (and it was last time too). (1)

DunbarTheInept (764) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983354)

This is great news.

And it was last time I saw it on slashdot a few weeks ago.

Ferrari or scooter? - yeah (1)

mackga (990) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983355)

I thought that was an odd comment as well. I mean, it ain't that hard to set up a Linux box for someone who is supposedly computer literate. And I assume he meant Linux as the ferrari and win as the scooter - but why the fsck would he want to drive a scooter? Hmmmmm...maybe I'll just stick to N64.

Linux and SGI is Great! (1)

mholve (1101) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983356)

A great combo, IMO

Maybe Linux just an easy port? (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983357)

This is not great news. Sony and Sega were already using gcc. THAT is the driving factor here and always has been. Linux is just another platform that gcc runs well on, is well supported on and supports cheap hardware.

The 'easy port' aspect has always been a factor in the success of Unix.

Or maybe not... (1)

dcp (1250) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983358)

bzzz.
they only have to distribute source if they release the binary to the public. This looks internal only.

no source.

dave

The wonderful thing about Micro$oft is... (1)

Moredhel (1356) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983359)

...that they compete with everybody!

Every time that M$ decides to get into another business - travel, games platforms, telecoms - they buy or partner with (and the difference is?) someone else in that area.

And so all the competitors can no longer use M$ products for their work, and so they're forced to go straight to M$'s competitors.

And so M$ gets just the one company in that field working with them, and everyone else goes running to Sun, Linux, Java, IBM or whoever.

M$ is basically forcing the world to buy into competing products. You have to love the stupid bastards ;O)

like that (1)

the cleaner (1641) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983360)

what shall i do?
-buy an palm XXX?
-buy an empeg?
-wait for PS-II to spend my money on?
-rob some old ladies?
hell, life *is* complicated as linux-addiccted...

Here's a real programmer for ya (1)

red_dragon (1761) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983361)

Yeah. And that programmer probably prefers to drive the rusty Rambler that VisualBasic is... :o)

^D

The wonderful thing about Micro$oft is... (1)

Ex-NT-User (1951) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983362)


The differance between MS buying you out and MS parnering with you is:


Buying:
They get you outright and you get some $$$

Partnering:
They get you to do all the work.. then they run you out of buisness with a copy cat MS application.


.Ex-Nt-User

An important thing to remember about development (1)

takeru (2183) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983363)

Anyone familiar with game development should remember that while the development of a game for a console takes place in an IDE on a desktop system, that system does not run the actual code. For a "smallish" sum of money you can get a stripped down version of the developers kit for the current playstation called the Yaroze. You write the code for the PS under codewarrior for windows and then dl that binary to the console to execute. I would certainly not plan to see any kind of emulation under linux, escpecially since the hardware is so specific and speciallized.

like that (1)

takeru (2183) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983364)

I would certainly recomend the purchase of a palm device. They are by far the most elegant solution in the current offerings of PDA's. I would recomend the Palm IIIx, which is just like the Palm III except with 4Meg of RAM/ROM.

Here's a real programmer for ya (1)

mo (2873) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983365)

This guy is a moron. I wonder where they find these people.

When we installed RH5.0 on my buddie's new VAIO laptop, I got it up with Networking and X faster than windows.

Linux Setup:
XF86Setup.. click on monitor, click on card, startx
Pop in the pcmcia ethernet, ifconfig, route, netscape

Windows Setup:
Reboot, load display driver, reboot
pop in pcmcia card, reboot, setup networking, reboot

Talk about a pain in the ass to set up. We counted 5 reboots in the whole 98 install. Retarded.

Ambiguous subject heading -- ps/2? (1)

Jeremiah (3476) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983366)

Damn. Thought this was going to be a news-bit about Linux on Microchannel systems. Fat chance of new developments, I know, but one can dream..

Thanks for the link update. (1)

Jeremiah (3476) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983367)

The old link to glycerine didn't mention a move to dgmicro.

Yeah, right (1)

cthonious (5222) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983368)

A few thousand development machines - SGI PC's running Linux - is definitely a big push towards "mainstream".

N64 devkits started SGI only... (1)

cthonious (5222) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983369)

>I was at a Playstation (original) developer's conference in Los Angeles, '97,

that was a long time ago.

GPL software in a black box? (1)

Julian Morrison (5575) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983370)

What happens with GPL-covered binaries in a black box like a playstation? Would they have to release source?

This is NEW story folks (1)

juuri (7678) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983371)

"According to The Japanese site Gamespot it has been reported that the PlayStation 2 will use the operating environment of Linux for development!"

Oh so when a Japanese magazine reports it, it is nothing more than a rumor. But oh, when it is on an American site, it is fact? Is that what you are trying to state?


---
Openstep/NeXTSTEP/Solaris/FreeBSD/Linux/ultrix/OSF /...

A couple definitions (1)

juuri (7678) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983372)

"... that makes it hearsay, or rumor."

Uhm. So I guess the news does little for you? In fact everything on slashdot is in fact being "reported". Your attempt at redfining the word reporting is invalid as is your argument.

This is obviously apparent even to you since instead of just stating your newly formed meaning of the term reporting you begin your post with an attack.

---
Openstep/NeXTSTEP/Solaris/FreeBSD/Linux/ultrix/OSF /...

Outstanding! (1)

skroz (7870) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983373)

How wonderful! My favorite gaming platform, my favorite OS, and my favorite hardware vendor, are all coming together! Now, if we could throw some Montgomery Inn ribs and Budweiser in there...

Maybe Linux just an easy port? (1)

skroz (7870) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983374)

Yes. The development environment for the playstation is available for Wintel PCs.

Ambiguous subject heading -- ps/2? (1)

pica (8795) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983375)

Sorry, Jeremiah. As you've obvioulsy discovered he meant PS[X]2. However, in rewriting the headline from a previous article, he backspaced over the "X" and didn't notice. ;)

3133+ Programmer(s) (1)

pica (8795) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983376)

Woah! That just brought something to my attention... look at that date.Two digit date field? Do I smell a lame ass programmer somewhere in the lineup? I assume (hope!) there won't be a Y2K problem, but any programmer I've talked to worth $1/hour has used a 4 digit date field for at least the last 3 years. Phew, that was fun.

Or maybe not... (1)

DMC (10005) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983377)

ummm...you miss his point. the article mentioned the rumor that Sony may use a modified version of the Linux kernel to run the PlayStation in a future rev. If they did that, then they would have to make all of their changes public. He was not talking about their game code.

damon

Or maybe not... (1)

Cerebus (10185) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983378)

The *point* of the GPL (which the kernel is under) is that modifications *have* to be available source-form for no more than a copying fee for the media.

So if Sony embeds Linux in the PSX2, they *have* to make it available. And it won't take long for the community to find out what it's running inside once it ships.

-- Cerebus

Significance overstated? (1)

The Dodger (10689) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983379)

>This may be the push Linux needs to once and
>for all solidify itself as the OS of the future.

Uhm... Isn't this attaching an awful lot of importance to what is a relatively minor event, in the overall scheme of things? The news that IBM, HP, etc. are planning to support Linux is much more significant, imho.

By contrast, corps aren't likely to view Sony's choice of Linux as a development platform as a major reason to switch from NT...

Dodger

Or maybe not... (1)

The Dodger (10689) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983380)

> ..sony uses linux as the OS for their new game
> system which would mean that they would have to
> make their modified source available for all us
> geek-types to see

Who says?

That's like saying that because Oracle are porting 8i to Linux, they have to make the source for 8i available to all of us...

What's to stop Sony from grabbing the Linux source code, putting together their own distribution with precompiled kernel, binaries, etc., sticking it on a CD and sending it to their developers?

Dodger

Linux & Source & freedom (2)

FireReaper (11087) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983381)

Sony is a big company and they realise what they are getting into.

From the Next Generation article, it appears that Linux's involvement at this point is for a development platform. Whether or not it is used as the OS for the PSX is another matter completely.

At most, if Sony does make use of Linux and adheres to the GPL, they would only need to release the source code for the subsystems that they modified. If they make use of the Linux OS and use it as a development platform and not modify anything, but code up the development tools, then they will not have to release anything. Period.

Using an OS for development and actually using the OS itself as the foundation for a console is very different. In this case, what's being reported is what the Next Generation reporters are getting from insiders and from questioning Sony staff. Nothing is set in stone yet and until it is, getting excited and pounding your table demanding source being released is no help.

If/when it is announced that Sony has chosen to use Linux in an official capacity, then sure, break out the champagne and celebrate and start demanding source for what they used. Just be prepared for a nasty shock since what they release could well be worthless in terms of letting people code on the PSX2 without the special hardware level libraries.

And if in their good heart they decide to release the source, even better. Break out the banquet tables and feasts.

On a related note, Sony supporting Linux for their game console, if it happens, is a BIG step. Perhaps even bigger than IBM. Entertainment drives the Internet and has driven it to become as big as it has been. Games make money and the entertainment industry makes money. Linux being used by Sony is a big step.

Whether or not it will be a positive step which will help promote freedom of source and information is still something left to be seen.


- Wing
- Reap the fires of the soul.
- Harvest the passion of life.

Inefficient OS? (1)

dirty (13560) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983383)

I agree. All OSes are inefficient for consoles. The OS on a console should do exactly what is needed and NOTHING else. You don't need multitasking (probally only threading), or swap space, or a TCP/IP stack, or any notion of users or groups or security, etc. I'd imagine the OS on a console really is nothing more than a bootloader to initialize the hardware. Since you have the exact same hardware on every system it would be a lot faster for the games to access it directly rather than through a device driver. Esentially to it seems it would basically be a lot like DOS. DOS made a great game OS because the games could essentially impliment their own OSes. I'd imagine that most of the general purpose functions for doing things like accessing hardware would be implimented in libraries on the compiler side than in syscalls on the console side.

How disappointing. (1)

jerodd (13818) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983385)

I saw the headline for this article and thought it would be about my beloved PS/2. <sigh> You let me down. I'll have to head on over to the the Microchannel pornography website [prohosting.com] and solace myself with the pictures of beautiful adapter/As. Ahh.... I need to scan in my ActionMedia II Display Adapter/A (with capture option daughtercard) and send it over to Peter.

Cheers,
Joshua (a member of the MCA mafia)

PS2 vs PS/2 (1)

jerodd (13818) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983386)

Hey! That PS/2 50Z has a VGA. I should know, because I used a PS/2 Model 25 for many years, and it definitely does have MCGA. Having just 64KB of video memory is no fun, not to mention having no ability to use EGA software. However, programming in 256-color mode back in 1989 impressed everyone when they were still hacking their digital monitors...

Cheers,
Joshua. (Did you visit the Microchannel pornography website yet?)

It would be funny.... (1)

zealot (14660) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983387)

if the reason Sony choose linux as a dev environment was because they had to much trouble with their engineers playing computer games, and since they realized there are so few for linux, they wouldn't have quite as large a problem. Of course, with more games coming, and wine, that may not solve anything.

Dev tools will appear on Non-Linux platforms too.. (1)

Mark K (14951) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983388)

There is a third-party market for console development tools. So no matter WHAT Sony includes as the "default" compilers with a devopment kit, other software makers will make PSX2 tools that can be hosted on a variety of platforms.

And Windows will be one of them.

Highly kewl- now what about the PS2's OS? (1)

kaisyain (15013) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983389)

The article says that when Phil Harrison (a Sony VP) was asked if Linux would be used as the OS he responded by saying, "We do not intend to use an inefficient multipurpose operating system."

It would seem that Sony has pretty much already said they aren't going to be using Linux as the OS.

I can see, though, how you might have missed that since it's way down in the third paragraph of the article. Easy to overlook.

Here's a real programmer for ya (1)

takshaka (15297) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983390)

"It's a pain in the ass to set up your own Linux box. No one really wants to do that, but you can. It's like your choice of transportation is you drive a ferrari or a scooter."

I would think Linux on a Visual Workstation is at least a corvette.

-tak

Maybe Linux just an easy port? (1)

Visoblast (15851) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983391)

Was there ever a Windows developmen package for the PlayStation?

It seems that support for UNIX, given the high end graphics available for it (in past, PCs have mostly caught up), makes sense. The UNIX workstations are still very nice for the task with some nifty hardware, like body tracking equipment, that isn't supported on PCs. So, Sony problably was going to support a UNIX anyway.

Maybe they thought a cheaper development platform to bring down development costs would stimulate game development. Seems like an odd argument -- its still pretty costly to make a game. A Linux port would be far easer than a Windows port if UNIX was already supported.

This makes sense to me, because then supporting Linux is logical economically. Sony wouldn't support Linux because its cool. Money has to be involved here somewhere . . .

Or maybe not... (1)

Fizgig (16368) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983392)

No, they disribute it to their developers. Sony doesn't make all the games in-house. Just because it's not a consumer producte doesn't mean it's not distributed.

like that (1)

Gumber (17306) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983393)

None of the things you list are all that expensive, except robbing old ladies, which can take years away from your life once you are caught.

PS2 vs PS/2 (1)

auntfloyd (18527) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983394)

What can a playstaion2 do that my PS/2 50Z (12Mhz 286, MCGA, MCA) can't?

Ferrari or scooter? (1)

Arandir (19206) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983395)

Of course I would much rather drive the ferrari. That's why I use Linux!

If that's a typical representation of the PS2 developers, I'm certainly not interested in their product. Geez, setting up a linux box is too hard? For developers? Give me a break!

Inefficient OS? (1)

Scott_F (19754) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983397)

Quote from the article:
"We do not intend to use an inefficient multi-purpose operating system."

referring to Windows? :) confirmed by their decision to actually use Linux?

GPL software in a black box? (1)

mindstrm (20013) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983398)

GPL is GPL is GPL. If they were based on GPL code, then of course it has to be available.
That is not what is happening here, i'm not implying anything about sony.

Significance overstated? (1)

Kiaser Zohsay (20134) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983399)

What is significant (at least in the opinion of the author of the article) is not that Sony is picking up Linux, but that it is ditching MS. IBM, HP, et al haven't come close to that yet. At least not in public. (Technically, this is from an internal meeting, so its not public either. Yet.)

Also, think about the next generation of bleeding-edge PS games, and poeple going "They did THIS with Linux? Cool!"

This is NEW story folks (1)

some1 (21819) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983400)

The previous Slashdot post [slashdot.org] reported on a rumor... this new story confirms it and has much more info. It was written yesterday.

So please stop your whining and follow these simple rules for posting (in this order):

1. Follow the URL
2. Read the story
3. Think
4. Post

------------------

A couple definitions (1)

some1 (21819) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983401)

Sigh, why are there so many bitter geeks in the world? You give the rest of us a bad name. As your quote points out, according to the Japanese site, "it has been reported that the Playstation 2 will use ...Linux for development."

In other words, they heard it second hand. That makes it hearsay, or rumor. This new story reports that the rumor has been confirmed by Sony itself. That's different. That's news.

If Microsoft releases Office for Linux this summer should Slashdot ignore it because of today's post on the ZDNet article?

A couple definitions (1)

some1 (21819) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983402)


Well this has gotten totally off topic... but let me respond.

I guess I didn't make myself clear. The difference comes in having a source. "Sources say" or even sources say that "Sony says" count as rumors. They may be credible rumors if coming for someone known to have credible sources, but they are still rumors.

But Slashdot making available a link that takes readers to a story where the publication reports that "Sony confirms" or "Sony says" something. Well, that is news.

True, the latter is hearsay too and true there are no black and white divisions between words. If we start arguing about when rumors become news we'll probably never get anywhere. Life isn't black & white (or even greyscale).

But the point is that there was a story without confirmation from Sony before. There is confirmation from Sony now. Furthermore, the other story had a snippet of text. This has many more details. If you're not interested in this new info, fine. But I get frustrated seeing people rant and rave because they think everyone else shares their interests. Ignore stories that don't interest you. Whining just wastes bandwidth for the rest of us (like we're wasting bandwidth now).

And I'm sorry if my frustration turned into an attack on you.

Highly kewl- now what about the PS2's OS? (1)

valdemar (21900) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983403)

You can bet that one of the factors will be cross-compiling. The psx2's processor is completely new. I for one am interested in paying for one of the development platforms and using the power of this new processor to run some robots. Perhaps even a bunch of psx2's networked together using the fire-wire interface. A supercomputer made out of playstations is not as far fetched as you might think. I am going to try my best. :)

Another nail.. (1)

brad.hill (21936) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983404)

in Microsoft's coffin.

As long as W2000/NT5 are broken, buggy, moving targets with an indefinite release date, nobody in their right mind would introduct a new, high-performance application that needs to work *now* for the platform.

Nice to see companies finally waking up. After years of "We can't trust our critical apps to anybody but Microsoft because they might not still be in business next year," finally we get the truth: "We can't trust our critical apps to Microsoft because WE might not be in business next year."

Smart move (1)

El (94934) | more than 15 years ago | (#1983407)

This sounds like a smart choice by Sony -- to try to detour some open source developers into developing games for the PSX, meaning more games will be available when it ships. I'd love to do some 3D game development on a Visual Workstation running Linux myself!
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